India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[ashdoc]

Is it true that "The Himalayan Blunder" book is banned in India?

I have got copy of 'Himalayan blunder' as well. I will search for it in my house as time permits.

 

[Kumata]

View attachment 52509

Here is my copy of 'India's China war'

Review of it I have written earlier---



One word of caution. Don't read the book!!
neville is a british communist and and everything he writes is pro china. i almost got convinced of the chinese case myself!!

once the reports started coming out of the newspapers of china having built a highway through indian territory in aksai chin,the indian govt was awoken from its dreamworld of india china bhai bhai.

jana sangh raised hell in parlament about the neglect of national security which had led to this lapse.

the nehru govt was compelled to send patrols in to aksai chin.initially they met with some success.

this was the pattern . some forty of our soldiers would establish a post inside chinese occupied territory.the chinese would confront it and an eyeball to eyeball confrontation would take place between the two forces. some time later the chinese would back down. the chinese had obviously not been given the order to attack our soildiers.this happened several times.

the nehru govt-fresh from its success in kicking out the portugese form goa felt it could achieve a similar success in kicking out the chinese . nehru felling a false sense of bravado talked in parlament of ''throwing them out back where they came from.''

as indians inched closer to the highway the confrontations led to actual clashes.

the govt took the decision to patrol the macmohan line in arunachal, what the chinese called the line of control.

the problem arose when indians decided to patrol thagla ridge at the western tip of arunachal . here the macmohan line itself was disputed as the chinese felt that the line passed through the namka chu river to the south of it.

the indians however decided to press their claim and deployed a brigade of troops under brigadier john dalvi onto the ridge.

this finally angered the chinese to teach india a lesson.

they attacked the indians on thagla ridge. the frontal assaults failed but the chinese had enormous numerical superiority.they captured the tsangle position on the flank which was less well defended and then attacked from the flank. soon the indians were forced to withdraw from the thagla ridge and retreat to the namka chu river.

DRAGONNADE AT NAMKA CHU-

the indians thought that the namka chu river position was safe as the chinese had accepted it as the line of control. the thagla ridge action had been a pure local action to remove them from disputed territory ,they thought.

they were in for a shocker when the chinese made a full scale frontal assault on the position.. this time they used human wave tactics- that is wave after wave of chinese soildiers would attack the indians.when one wave was exhausted the second and then the third would attack - sometimes without weapons and picking up the weapons of their dead comrades on the way.

the chinese obviously were carrying out a full scale invasion. certainly this was no impromptu decision and they had been preparing for war for years .
dalvi watched the slaughter of his men helplessly.certainly they killed many more than they lost-human wave tactics are costly in terms of lives-but the chinese thuoght their soldiers expendable and had far more to lose.

when all was lost dalvi tried to escape. he was caught and became among the first prisoners of war. he survived the war to write a highly emotional and personal account of the war-HIMALAYAN BLUNDER.

the news stunned the nation.the immediate effect was to abandon the famous monastory of tawang as resistance in this part was thought to be hopeless.

the experts advised to hold the position at bomdila-sound military advice as the position here was was far away from the chinese troops and by the time they came there the indians could have built massive supiriority. but that would mean abandoning a large part of arunachal to the invaders- politically inpossible to do.

so it was decided to hold the se la pass nearer to the chinese, also bomdila far behind it and darang dzong in between them.

the chinese decided not to carry out a frontal assault on se la. the instead found a route through the mountains called bailey trail- explored by britisher bailey a long time ago.

they defeated the weak troops defending the trail and came up behind the sela pass and in between that position and bomdila.

obviously sela had to be abandoned . but the senior officers began to pass the buck for taking this decision as it would mean the end of the carreer of the officer who ordered this retreat.

at night it was decided to remove part of the force and keep the rest.this news led to collapse of morale at sela as the troops felt abandoned to their fate.
the chinese quckly took advantage to capture it along with plenty prisoners.

now the position at darang dzong came in danger, so a force was detached to defend it thereby weakening the position at bomdila.
darang dzong was captured before the force could reach it and the force also was caught in the open on the road where they could shot at and was annihilated. the force at bomdila was too weak to defend its positon now and was defeated.

at the eastern tip of arunachal the chinese attacked the strongly defended airstrip of walong . they were completely defeated and driven out sustaining heavy losses.the indians were stupid enough to take advantage of this to attack the heavily defended chinese positions and failed-taking heavy losses themselves.the chinese quicking attcked to capture walong- now there was not a singli indian soldier in NEFA- as arunachal was called then.

in aksai chin the chinese drove out all the posts indians had established in the past years .

you just saved me few ₹ ₹ ₹ ₹ ₹

 

[Rudra7678]

This War report is summery is already in public as it was given To Maxwell by some "deep Thraot"... his book "India's China War" though is not in print avaialble i market..
One can read the summery on Claud Arpi website.

However. I am very sure that report can not be made public...

They say how can a Brigadier (Then Brigadier PS Bhagat who was the member of the Committee) pull down pants of a PM, Defense Minister, Foreign Secretary. Defence Secretary and specially Director IB and Army brass in an official report. That poor gallant and distinguished officer would be overlooked for COAS post subsequently by the Congress government.

Actually, in my home town, Neville Maxwell's book "India's China War" is available and in brand new print. It has been published by a local publishing house.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

With increasing Chinese influence in Nepal it may become another Kashmir for India if we don’t act i hope Mr Modi is planning something for Nepal China has captured some Nepali territory already and they will keep advancing

 

[Shashank Nayak]

• 1 Gorkha Rifles - 6 battalions (previously 1st King George V's Own Gurkha Rifles (The Malaun Regiment))
• 3 Gorkha Rifles - 5 battalions (previously 3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles)
• 4 Gorkha Rifles - 5 battalions (previously 4th Prince of Wales's Own Gurkha Rifles)
• 5 Gorkha Rifles (Frontier Force) - 6 battalions (previously 5th Royal Gurkha Rifles (Frontier Force))
• 8 Gorkha Rifles - 6 battalions (In 8 GR the First Battalion is converted into Mechanised Infantry Regiment)
• 9 Gorkha Rifles - 5 battalions
• 11 Gorkha Rifles - 7 battalions and one TA battalion (107th Infantry Battalion Territorial Army (11GR) located in Darjeeling, West Bengal) (raised after the independence of India).

approx 33,000 soldiers, i could be wrong though

A third of these are Indian gorkhas from places like Darjeeling

 

[utubekhiladi]

 

[muralidon924]

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

Emergency would have been better for us.

 

[muralidon924]

can you post the article here it is behind a paywall

 

[Tuco]

I understand that right now we have the advantage in Indian Ocean but we shouldn't be sitting on our asses about it but press the advantage further. Looking at the new chicom acquisitions around the middle east they are planning to put a fleet over there it may not be in numbers but combined with paki navy(I know its small now) it may cause us some pricks and in case pak does some stupid acts we will not be as free to act as we are now. The recent secret Iran deal is supposed to involve the use of airbases and there is one near Chabahar we put in all the money and built that port and now chicom may use it. Andaman and Nicobar should have already been developed, but we are looking at it now. Iran was a bad bet I think but we do not have any other good option there either.

 

[Sehwag213]

View attachment 52509

Here is my copy of 'India's China war'

Review of it I have written earlier---



One word of caution. Don't read the book!!
neville is a british communist and and everything he writes is pro china. i almost got convinced of the chinese case myself!!

once the reports started coming out of the newspapers of china having built a highway through indian territory in aksai chin,the indian govt was awoken from its dreamworld of india china bhai bhai.

jana sangh raised hell in parlament about the neglect of national security which had led to this lapse.

the nehru govt was compelled to send patrols in to aksai chin.initially they met with some success.

this was the pattern . some forty of our soldiers would establish a post inside chinese occupied territory.the chinese would confront it and an eyeball to eyeball confrontation would take place between the two forces. some time later the chinese would back down. the chinese had obviously not been given the order to attack our soildiers.this happened several times.

the nehru govt-fresh from its success in kicking out the portugese form goa felt it could achieve a similar success in kicking out the chinese . nehru felling a false sense of bravado talked in parlament of ''throwing them out back where they came from.''

as indians inched closer to the highway the confrontations led to actual clashes.

the govt took the decision to patrol the macmohan line in arunachal, what the chinese called the line of control.

the problem arose when indians decided to patrol thagla ridge at the western tip of arunachal . here the macmohan line itself was disputed as the chinese felt that the line passed through the namka chu river to the south of it.

the indians however decided to press their claim and deployed a brigade of troops under brigadier john dalvi onto the ridge.

this finally angered the chinese to teach india a lesson.

they attacked the indians on thagla ridge. the frontal assaults failed but the chinese had enormous numerical superiority.they captured the tsangle position on the flank which was less well defended and then attacked from the flank. soon the indians were forced to withdraw from the thagla ridge and retreat to the namka chu river.

DRAGONNADE AT NAMKA CHU-

the indians thought that the namka chu river position was safe as the chinese had accepted it as the line of control. the thagla ridge action had been a pure local action to remove them from disputed territory ,they thought.

they were in for a shocker when the chinese made a full scale frontal assault on the position.. this time they used human wave tactics- that is wave after wave of chinese soildiers would attack the indians.when one wave was exhausted the second and then the third would attack - sometimes without weapons and picking up the weapons of their dead comrades on the way.

the chinese obviously were carrying out a full scale invasion. certainly this was no impromptu decision and they had been preparing for war for years .
dalvi watched the slaughter of his men helplessly.certainly they killed many more than they lost-human wave tactics are costly in terms of lives-but the chinese thuoght their soldiers expendable and had far more to lose.

when all was lost dalvi tried to escape. he was caught and became among the first prisoners of war. he survived the war to write a highly emotional and personal account of the war-HIMALAYAN BLUNDER.

the news stunned the nation.the immediate effect was to abandon the famous monastory of tawang as resistance in this part was thought to be hopeless.

the experts advised to hold the position at bomdila-sound military advice as the position here was was far away from the chinese troops and by the time they came there the indians could have built massive supiriority. but that would mean abandoning a large part of arunachal to the invaders- politically inpossible to do.

so it was decided to hold the se la pass nearer to the chinese, also bomdila far behind it and darang dzong in between them.

the chinese decided not to carry out a frontal assault on se la. the instead found a route through the mountains called bailey trail- explored by britisher bailey a long time ago.

they defeated the weak troops defending the trail and came up behind the sela pass and in between that position and bomdila.

obviously sela had to be abandoned . but the senior officers began to pass the buck for taking this decision as it would mean the end of the carreer of the officer who ordered this retreat.

at night it was decided to remove part of the force and keep the rest.this news led to collapse of morale at sela as the troops felt abandoned to their fate.
the chinese quckly took advantage to capture it along with plenty prisoners.

now the position at darang dzong came in danger, so a force was detached to defend it thereby weakening the position at bomdila.
darang dzong was captured before the force could reach it and the force also was caught in the open on the road where they could shot at and was annihilated. the force at bomdila was too weak to defend its positon now and was defeated.

at the eastern tip of arunachal the chinese attacked the strongly defended airstrip of walong . they were completely defeated and driven out sustaining heavy losses.the indians were stupid enough to take advantage of this to attack the heavily defended chinese positions and failed-taking heavy losses themselves.the chinese quicking attcked to capture walong- now there was not a singli indian soldier in NEFA- as arunachal was called then.

in aksai chin the chinese drove out all the posts indians had established in the past years .

So why do we call China betrayed us in 1962 when it is clear that war was inevitable?
Or is this another wrong history being taught to Indians ?

 

[Bhadra]

It is good to come across well informed and educated people of the forum who have read good books on India China affairs.

It is always good to know the opposite views...

The opposite viws on Ladakh issue comes from another British leftist
Alastair Lamb in his books -

Alastair Lamb -Kashmir: A Disputed Legacy, 1846-1990

and
Alastair Lamb -The Sino-Indian border in Ladakh

 

[Tuco]

So why do we call China betrayed us in 1962 when it is clear that war was inevitable?
Or is this another wrong history being taught to Indians ?

China was a backstabber we have transcripts of Sardar Patel saying so. It was not China who betrayed, betrayal is its true nature. It was our own people.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Not a scene from bahubali

But a betrayal scene from history chiseled in the walls of SriRangam Temple shows a Chinese men stabbing Indian from behind!

even our ancestors built a statue inside temple and left us clues and asked us to not trust Chinese bat munchers

 

[mokoman]

This War report is summery is already in public as it was given To Maxwell by some "deep Thraot"... his book "India's China War" though is not in print avaialble i market..
One can read the summery on Claud Arpi website.

However. I am very sure that report can not be made public...

They say how can a Brigadier (Then Brigadier PS Bhagat who was the member of the Committee) pull down pants of a PM, Defense Minister, Foreign Secretary. Defence Secretary and specially Director IB and Army brass in an official report. That poor gallant and distinguished officer would be overlooked for COAS post subsequently by the Congress government.

Are you talking about 'Henderson Brooks–Bhagat Report' , i think he uploaded it on his website
and it was shared .

there is link here , dont know if its authentic.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/TopSecretdocuments2.pdf

 

[Kumata]

It is good to come across well informed and educated people of the forum who have read good books on India China affairs.

It is always good to know the opposite views...

The opposite viws on Ladakh issue comes from another British leftist
Alastair Lamb in his books -

Alastair Lamb -Kashmir: A Disputed Legacy, 1846-1990

and
Alastair Lamb -The Sino-Indian border in Ladakh

Looks like you are in good comany today

 

[Kumata]

Are you talking about 'Henderson Brooks–Bhagat Report' , i think he uploaded it on his website
and it was shared .

there is link here , dont know if its authentic.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/TopSecretdocuments2.pdf

Not report but summary....

 

[Kumata]

Emergency would have been better for us.

Bhujta diya hai... fadd fadane do bechare ko...

 

[ashdoc]

So why do we call China betrayed us in 1962 when it is clear that war was inevitable?
Or is this another wrong history being taught to Indians ?

It is only in hindsight that we know that war was inevitable. The generation at that time was.....let us be kind to them and call them innocent.....and they underestimated the anger felt by the Chinese at the asylum offered by us to the Dalai lama .

 

[garg_bharat]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

The Western plan to prop up China as a manufacturing base for low priced goods while the West focused on high priced luxury goods has completely failed.

West knows it cannot compete with China. So it is back to market access for goods.

We shall see a variety of tariff and non-tariff barriers erected on Chinese goods; as well as effort to limit technology access to Chinese companies. Huawei is no exception.

There will be a lot of activity in rest of July.

And continued fireworks in Iran. As Iran increases its influence in Iraq and Syria, a strong pushback is likely.