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captscooby81

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Please clarify me what is our territory in Indo Tibet border ? is it F4-F8 or does it goes upto Khurnak fort ? We used to patrol till Haji Langar in 1959 that is also our territory then why is your blood not boiling for the loss of that territory from being denied to patrol .

If F4-F8 is our territory why have we never even bothered to build a bloody camp . How did chinese build a boat bay near F7 and using it all these years and we never cried about it and suddenly shook la gives a spin that F4-F8 was controlled by us and we lost it

PM said they didn't entered any territory controlled by us which is exactly true even for Pangang Tso lake our post is east side of F4 and that is where we control it not west side of F4 .we never controlled it since 1962 .

Congress govt hai toh shookla will give a different spin about LAC and if its BJP govt he gives all together new spin.

PM needs to dance for this import lobby Col's googly's ???

Ajay Shukla has been debunked by all. But there is something to the whole thing that doesn't add up.
The PM's statement that no one is present in our territory, when clearly they were present between F4 to F8 is misleading. It is matter of time, truth will come out eventually.
 

patriots

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Su-35 With Chinese Characteristics: Five Upgrades to Keep the PLA’s Russian-Built Fighters From Falling Behind

MILITARY WATCH


https://militarywatchmagazine.com/forceapp




















Asia-Pacific, Aircraft and Anti-Aircraft

Su-35 With Chinese Characteristics: Five Upgrades to Keep the PLA’s Russian-Built Fighters From Falling Behind

July-7th-2020



Chinese PLA Air Force Su-35 Heavyweight Fighters

China became the first client for the Russian Su-35 ‘4++ generation’ heavyweight air superiority fighter in November 2015, when it placed an order for two dozen of the jets alongside two regiments of the S-400 long range surface to air missile system. The People’s Liberation Army began to receive the fighters little over year later in January 2017, with the delivery completed by mid-2019 with two dozen aircraft entering service - enough to form a single squadron. China has previously been a leading client for advanced Russian heavyweight fighters, ordering over 100 Su-27 jets and almost 100 of the newer Su-30 platforms in the 1990s and the early 2000s. The much smaller contract for Su-35s was a result of significant advances in Chinese military aviation which had reduced its reliance on foreign designs, with the J-11B entering service in the mid-late 2000s based on the Su-27 but fielding far superior capabilities, and the J-16 joining the fleet in 2013 as China’s first indigenous ‘4+ generation’ aircraft. China’s interest in the Su-35 is widely thought to have been influenced by the need for a technology transfer from Russia - primarily technologies pertaining to three dimensional thrust vectoring engines - rather than because of a need for the aircraft themselves. This transfer was included as part of the contract.

While the Su-35 is a formidable fighter, as of 2020 it’s capabilities notably lag behind those of indigenous Chinese aircraft in many key fields. Over the coming decade the aircraft will increasingly be considered at the lower end of the Chinese fleet, particularly in terms of its sensors and armaments, which provides the PLA with a strong incentive to upgrade the aircraft domestically. The possibilities for doings so are considerable, with Russian fighters having been modified to carry foreign weaponry and subsystems in the past and the Su-35’s airframe boasting formidable characteristics. A look at four major possible upgrades is given here.




PL-15 AESA Radar Guided Air to Air Missiles

PL-15
One of the most outstanding weaknesses of the Su-35 relative to new Chinese AESA radar equipped fighters such as the J-10C, J-11BG, J-16 and J-20 is the limited capabilities of its air to air missiles. The R-77 was the first active radar guided missile developed for Russian fighter-sized aircraft, and while it compares favourably with the American AIM-120C and Chinese PL-12 with a heavier warhead and longer range its performance is very limited compared to newer U.S. and Chinese designs. While the American AIM-120D introduced in 2014 was intended to provide an advantage over rival designs for at least a decade, and had a formidable 160-180km range, the Chinese PL-15 notably outperformed it by a considerable Martin. The new Chinese missile not only has a much longer range, between 250 and 300km, as well as a heavier warhead, but is also guided by an AESA rather than a passive radar. This makes the missile much more difficult to jam, allows it to better lock onto stealth aircraft at longer ranges and overall provides superior reliability to the American and Russian designs. The signifiant capability gap between the Su-35’s air to air missiles and the PL-15 is thought to be the primary cause behind the Russian fighter’s poor performance in combat stimulations, and equipping it with theses or similar missiles is vital to prevent it falling behind as a growing proportion of China’s fighter fleet is equipped with the new missiles.




R-37M Hypersonic Long Range Air to Air Missile

R-37M/ PL-21
A second option for upgrading the Su-35’s long range arsenal could be to equip it with missiles specialised in targeting enemy support aircraft such as tankers and AWACS. One option could be to equip the fighters with the Russian R-37M missiles, which with a 400km range and Mach 6 speed were designed to threaten both fighters and support aircraft but are particularly dangerous against the latter. Another would be to equip them with PL-21 missiles, which are currently being develop for the J-16 fighter and have an estimated range of over 500km The PL-21 has a number of advantages over the R-37M, which aside from its much longer range include AESA radar guidance includes a secondary seeker which uses infra red guidance for improved reliability. While it is more likely given its strengths in close range engagements that China will equip the Su-35 with PL-15 missiles rather than relying on it to hunt support aircraft over extreme distances, the possibility remains that the fighter could be relegated to such a role.




Su-35 '4++ Generation' Fighter

AESA Radar
One of the Su-35’s primary shortcomings compared to its Chinese counterparts is its lack of an AESA radar, with a passive radar not only providing lower efficiency but also being much easier to jam. While the Russian Air Force is notably considering integrating an AESA radar derived from that of the Su-57 onto the Su-35 in future, China’s greater familiarity with such technologies could allow it to do this domestically at a much lower cost. The PLA began to integrate AESA radar onto its fighters from 2013 with the J-16, while the Russian Air Force would only do so in 2019 with the much smaller and lighter MiG-35 fighter - which is its only AESA-equipped fighter in service today. Chinese AESA radar technologies are thought to be considerably ahead of those of Russia, and a new generation of these radars is expected to enter service in the early-mid 2020s. These could replace the Su-35’s Irbis-E radar, which is considered the world’s most capable passive radar deployed by a fighter, and provide the Russian-built jet with far superior situational awareness and a more reliable sensor suite.




PL-10 Short Range Air to Air Missile

PL-10
Another shortcoming of the Su-35 is its reliance on the R-73 air to air missile for short ranged engagements. The design was considered the most capable of the Cold War era and has been modernised considerably since, but ultimately is far inferior to its newer Chinese counterpart the PL-10. The new Chinese missile is fitted with a multi-element infra red seeker capable of engaging targets at +/-90 degree off boresight angles. It is paired with the helmet mounted displays used by modern Chinese aircraft to allow pilots to track targets beyond the aircraft's radar scan envelope using the high off-boresight capability, with the pilot able to lock on by simply turning his head towards the enemy aircraft. This provides Chinese jets with a considerable advantage over their competitors at close ranges, complementing the manoeuvrability advantage provided by three dimensional thrust vectoring engines The missile would complement the formidable capabilities of the Su-35’s airframe at close ranges provided by its high thrust/weight ratio and three dimensional thrust vectoring engines.




J-16 '4+ Generation' Fighter with Stealth Coatings

Stealth Coatings
China has emerged as a world leading in stealth technologies with a particularly strong emphasis on radar absorbent paints, and alongside applications on its J-20 fifth generation fighter it has also applied them to advanced fourth generation aircraft with reduced radar cross sections - namely the J-10C and J-16. These coatings at present are thought to give all of these new Chinese fighters a reduced radar cross section relative to the Su-35, and application of similar coatings to the Russian built jets would make them considerably more survivable at long ranges. Given the considerable investment in the field, Chinese stealth coatings are likely to far supersede their Russian counterparts including any coatings which may be applied to the upcoming Su-57 next generation fighter, and will ensure that the Su-35 does not have a major disadvantage in terms of stealth capabilities relative to other Chinese jets.




Chinese PLA Su-35 '4++ Generation' Fighter

Ultimately with China’s defence sector surpassing that of Russia in a growing number of fields, air to air missiles being a particularly notable one, it can be expected that China will attempt to integrate at least some upgrades onto the Su-35. The result could very well be the most capable Russian built fighter ever for air to air combat - potentially surpassing the capabilities of the newer Su-57 which at least for the foreseeable future will not have access to comparable missile classes or stealth coating technologies, and which may be forced to rely on an inferior AESA radar to that provided by China’s own defence sector. Whether China will purchase further Russian fighters, with the Su-57 having a number of strong selling points including its use of hypersonic ballistic missiles and the upcoming MiG-41 hypersonic interceptor promising many unique features, further Su-35 purchases remain highly unlikely given how far behind the design is in many ways relative to the new aircraft being produced domestically
 

cereal killer

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Please clarify me what is our territory in Indo Tibet border ? is it F4-F8 or does it goes upto Khurnak fort ? We used to patrol till Haji Langar in 1959 that is also our territory then why is your blood not boiling for the loss of that territory from being denied to patrol .

If F4-F8 is our territory why have we never even bothered to build a bloody camp . How did chinese build a boat bay near F7 and using it all these years and we never cried about it and suddenly shook la gives a spin that F4-F8 was controlled by us and we lost it

PM said they didn't entered any territory controlled by us which is exactly true even for Pangang Tso lake our post is east side of F4 and that is where we control it not west side of F4 .we never controlled it since 1962 .

Congress govt hai toh shookla will give a different spin about LAC and if its BJP govt he gives all together new spin.

PM needs to dance for this import lobby Col's googly's ???
F4-F8 is as of now grey area. Both India & China used to patrol in between. But China has decided to change the status quo by effectively claiming till F4 & they want to push us to F2. There is no our territory thing there. Both sides have their own perception of LAC. For us it is till F8 for them it is till F2. We never ever used to have any permanent settlement in Haji Langar just seasonal observational type posts in 1950's I guess. There was a lot of confusion those days.
 

Knowitall

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Chinese have a view that machines and numbers is key to military power. This is a wrong
view it is men and training that make military power first. Machines do not win wars men do.
I will have to strongly disagree to this machines and numbers are a key and an extremely important factor for winning any war.

Men and training will only take you so far.

Japan in ww2 had a highly motivated population I will say bordline cultist they were ready to die for the emperor they saw no logic just death or dishonor they fought extremely well they were highly motivated did it land them a win?

Machines resources the ability to exploit those resources will decide the outcome of the war.

Ww2 showed us you could have a determined highly trained army but once the war and attrition game starts it becomes a factor of who can outproduce whom.

When the Germans were destroying a dozen divisions everyday on the eastern front it was the Soviet war machine which put an other dozen.

Imagine if Soviet Union didn't have the industry all that manpower couldn't have saved them then.

When the Soviet german war begun Soviet Union lost most of its trained artillery commanders in the start itself so they didn't know how to find targets and coordinate things but thanks to their industrial might they ended up bombing everything a Luxury the Germans could not afford.

For every 1 bomber the Germans shot down America was producing 2 more.

Canada alone was producing more tanks than the Germans and britain was producing more planes.

The US created a brand new navy and was able to shrug off pearl harbour because of their industrial might.

Japan lost for this very reason they couldn't simply replace the losses they took and it cost them the war.

The chinese view is not wrong at all they know they have the manpower what they need is the manufacturing base.

It is time we too understand this or we might end up facing big problems our airforce is the biggest example.
 

Kalki2020

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I think right approach would have been, demanding disengagement in the order of the magnitude of deployment, means heavy deployment areas to be picked up for disengagement first than areas of PP14/pp17 or hotspring where they are already in disadvantageous situation & have no significant deployment.
I don't wish to give China any room even for face saving exit in this context, it would be like pardoning Goris to only come back & humiliate us in future.
We should have talks in our terms & conditions.
 

WARREN SS

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Is It True :hmm::hmm::hmm: what you guys think vodka brothers Played there Role

 

LETHALFORCE

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I will have to strongly disagree to this machines and numbers are a key and an extremely important factor for winning any war.

Men and training will only take you so far.

Japan in ww2 had a highly motivated population I will say bordline cultist they were ready to die for the emperor they saw no logic just death or dishonor they fought extremely well they were highly motivated did it land them a win?

Machines resources the ability to exploit those resources will decide the outcome of the war.

Ww2 showed us you could have a determined highly trained army but once the war and attrition game starts it becomes a factor of who can outproduce whom.

When the Germans were destroying a dozen divisions everyday on the eastern front it was the Soviet war machine which put an other dozen.

Imagine if Soviet Union didn't have the industry all that manpower couldn't have saved them then.

When the Soviet german war begun Soviet Union lost most of its trained artillery commanders in the start itself so they didn't know how to find targets and coordinate things but thanks to their industrial might they ended up bombing everything a Luxury the Germans could not afford.

For every 1 bomber the Germans shot down America was producing 2 more.

Canada alone was producing more tanks than the Germans and britain was producing more planes.

The US created a brand new navy and was able to shrug off pearl harbour because of their industrial might.

Japan lost for this very reason they couldn't simply replace the losses they took and it cost them the war.

The chinese view is not wrong at all they know they have the manpower what they need is the manufacturing base.

It is time we too understand this or we might end up facing big problems our airforce is the biggest example.
does not mean we should be lacking in any way in acquiring/developing the best weaponry
 

doreamon

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Su-35 With Chinese Characteristics: Five Upgrades to Keep the PLA’s Russian-Built Fighters From Falling Behind

MILITARY WATCH


https://militarywatchmagazine.com/forceapp




Asia-Pacific, Aircraft and Anti-Aircraft

Su-35 With Chinese Characteristics: Five Upgrades to Keep the PLA’s Russian-Built Fighters From Falling Behind

July-7th-2020



Chinese PLA Air Force Su-35 Heavyweight Fighters

China became the first client for the Russian Su-35 ‘4++ generation’ heavyweight air superiority fighter in November 2015, when it placed an order for two dozen of the jets alongside two regiments of the S-400 long range surface to air missile system. The People’s Liberation Army began to receive the fighters little over year later in January 2017, with the delivery completed by mid-2019 with two dozen aircraft entering service - enough to form a single squadron. China has previously been a leading client for advanced Russian heavyweight fighters, ordering over 100 Su-27 jets and almost 100 of the newer Su-30 platforms in the 1990s and the early 2000s. The much smaller contract for Su-35s was a result of significant advances in Chinese military aviation which had reduced its reliance on foreign designs, with the J-11B entering service in the mid-late 2000s based on the Su-27 but fielding far superior capabilities, and the J-16 joining the fleet in 2013 as China’s first indigenous ‘4+ generation’ aircraft. China’s interest in the Su-35 is widely thought to have been influenced by the need for a technology transfer from Russia - primarily technologies pertaining to three dimensional thrust vectoring engines - rather than because of a need for the aircraft themselves. This transfer was included as part of the contract.

While the Su-35 is a formidable fighter, as of 2020 it’s capabilities notably lag behind those of indigenous Chinese aircraft in many key fields. Over the coming decade the aircraft will increasingly be considered at the lower end of the Chinese fleet, particularly in terms of its sensors and armaments, which provides the PLA with a strong incentive to upgrade the aircraft domestically. The possibilities for doings so are considerable, with Russian fighters having been modified to carry foreign weaponry and subsystems in the past and the Su-35’s airframe boasting formidable characteristics. A look at four major possible upgrades is given here.




PL-15 AESA Radar Guided Air to Air Missiles

PL-15
One of the most outstanding weaknesses of the Su-35 relative to new Chinese AESA radar equipped fighters such as the J-10C, J-11BG, J-16 and J-20 is the limited capabilities of its air to air missiles. The R-77 was the first active radar guided missile developed for Russian fighter-sized aircraft, and while it compares favourably with the American AIM-120C and Chinese PL-12 with a heavier warhead and longer range its performance is very limited compared to newer U.S. and Chinese designs. While the American AIM-120D introduced in 2014 was intended to provide an advantage over rival designs for at least a decade, and had a formidable 160-180km range, the Chinese PL-15 notably outperformed it by a considerable Martin. The new Chinese missile not only has a much longer range, between 250 and 300km, as well as a heavier warhead, but is also guided by an AESA rather than a passive radar. This makes the missile much more difficult to jam, allows it to better lock onto stealth aircraft at longer ranges and overall provides superior reliability to the American and Russian designs. The signifiant capability gap between the Su-35’s air to air missiles and the PL-15 is thought to be the primary cause behind the Russian fighter’s poor performance in combat stimulations, and equipping it with theses or similar missiles is vital to prevent it falling behind as a growing proportion of China’s fighter fleet is equipped with the new missiles.




R-37M Hypersonic Long Range Air to Air Missile

R-37M/ PL-21
A second option for upgrading the Su-35’s long range arsenal could be to equip it with missiles specialised in targeting enemy support aircraft such as tankers and AWACS. One option could be to equip the fighters with the Russian R-37M missiles, which with a 400km range and Mach 6 speed were designed to threaten both fighters and support aircraft but are particularly dangerous against the latter. Another would be to equip them with PL-21 missiles, which are currently being develop for the J-16 fighter and have an estimated range of over 500km The PL-21 has a number of advantages over the R-37M, which aside from its much longer range include AESA radar guidance includes a secondary seeker which uses infra red guidance for improved reliability. While it is more likely given its strengths in close range engagements that China will equip the Su-35 with PL-15 missiles rather than relying on it to hunt support aircraft over extreme distances, the possibility remains that the fighter could be relegated to such a role.




Su-35 '4++ Generation' Fighter

AESA Radar
One of the Su-35’s primary shortcomings compared to its Chinese counterparts is its lack of an AESA radar, with a passive radar not only providing lower efficiency but also being much easier to jam. While the Russian Air Force is notably considering integrating an AESA radar derived from that of the Su-57 onto the Su-35 in future, China’s greater familiarity with such technologies could allow it to do this domestically at a much lower cost. The PLA began to integrate AESA radar onto its fighters from 2013 with the J-16, while the Russian Air Force would only do so in 2019 with the much smaller and lighter MiG-35 fighter - which is its only AESA-equipped fighter in service today. Chinese AESA radar technologies are thought to be considerably ahead of those of Russia, and a new generation of these radars is expected to enter service in the early-mid 2020s. These could replace the Su-35’s Irbis-E radar, which is considered the world’s most capable passive radar deployed by a fighter, and provide the Russian-built jet with far superior situational awareness and a more reliable sensor suite.




PL-10 Short Range Air to Air Missile

PL-10
Another shortcoming of the Su-35 is its reliance on the R-73 air to air missile for short ranged engagements. The design was considered the most capable of the Cold War era and has been modernised considerably since, but ultimately is far inferior to its newer Chinese counterpart the PL-10. The new Chinese missile is fitted with a multi-element infra red seeker capable of engaging targets at +/-90 degree off boresight angles. It is paired with the helmet mounted displays used by modern Chinese aircraft to allow pilots to track targets beyond the aircraft's radar scan envelope using the high off-boresight capability, with the pilot able to lock on by simply turning his head towards the enemy aircraft. This provides Chinese jets with a considerable advantage over their competitors at close ranges, complementing the manoeuvrability advantage provided by three dimensional thrust vectoring engines The missile would complement the formidable capabilities of the Su-35’s airframe at close ranges provided by its high thrust/weight ratio and three dimensional thrust vectoring engines.




J-16 '4+ Generation' Fighter with Stealth Coatings

Stealth Coatings
China has emerged as a world leading in stealth technologies with a particularly strong emphasis on radar absorbent paints, and alongside applications on its J-20 fifth generation fighter it has also applied them to advanced fourth generation aircraft with reduced radar cross sections - namely the J-10C and J-16. These coatings at present are thought to give all of these new Chinese fighters a reduced radar cross section relative to the Su-35, and application of similar coatings to the Russian built jets would make them considerably more survivable at long ranges. Given the considerable investment in the field, Chinese stealth coatings are likely to far supersede their Russian counterparts including any coatings which may be applied to the upcoming Su-57 next generation fighter, and will ensure that the Su-35 does not have a major disadvantage in terms of stealth capabilities relative to other Chinese jets.




Chinese PLA Su-35 '4++ Generation' Fighter

Ultimately with China’s defence sector surpassing that of Russia in a growing number of fields, air to air missiles being a particularly notable one, it can be expected that China will attempt to integrate at least some upgrades onto the Su-35. The result could very well be the most capable Russian built fighter ever for air to air combat - potentially surpassing the capabilities of the newer Su-57 which at least for the foreseeable future will not have access to comparable missile classes or stealth coating technologies, and which may be forced to rely on an inferior AESA radar to that provided by China’s own defence sector. Whether China will purchase further Russian fighters, with the Su-57 having a number of strong selling points including its use of hypersonic ballistic missiles and the upcoming MiG-41 hypersonic interceptor promising many unique features, further Su-35 purchases remain highly unlikely given how far behind the design is in many ways relative to the new aircraft being produced domestically
That explains our love affair with rafael and meteor ... but we need more rafaels . 36 ll nt do the job.. for the informatiom meteor much more lethal than pl15 . Some people wrongly compare it to meteor class . Meteor can increase /decrease burn rate with respect to situation which pl15 cnt . So kill ratio nd no escape zone is significantly higher . My only request to drdo ll be to complete uttam aesa project sooner so that meteor can be integrated to it ... sfdr is also talked to be able to control burn rate .
 

HariPrasad-1

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Oli's fate will be same as the Maldives president Abdulla Yameen , he is in jail for 5 years for money laundering , and fine of $5 million .

Abdulla Yameen was also heavily anti-India , just like Oli .
Very true. R&AW has orchestrated regime change in a country like srilanka. Nepal is too small to avoid that. India considers all subcontinent countries ours but if some short cited and corrupt people comes to power in this countries, a shrewd country like china is able to manipulate their elite to make them anti India. The guys like oli has mo idea how much damage they do to this historic relationship. To avoid that to be happened, the best way to deal is to remove those guys who does the damage.
 

Knowitall

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Is It True :hmm::hmm::hmm: what you guys think vodka brothers Played there Role

Once upon a time russia considered the possibility of a russian-china-India alliance or some intelligence sharing pact I don't remember exactly I read about this a long time back.

It is very much in their interests to prevent a conflict as they want an alliance with china but at the same time a good partnership with India a war will throw all of that into the bin.
 

Knowitall

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:hmm: are they admitting the real reason for all this drama ?

Why do I have this feeling that all these antics of china showing us as the aggressor displaying videos where we are doing construction work and all this acting of china trying so hard to maintain peace is a setup by them to prepare their population for war and justify doing so.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Why do I have this feeling that all these antics of china showing us as the aggressor displaying videos where we are doing construction work and all this acting of china trying so hard to maintain peace is a setup by them to prepare their population for war and justify doing so.
imaginary enemies do not attack and kill 20 unarmed soldiers
 

HariPrasad-1

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Has India done this???
It is very much necessary for the world to completely boycott china. I remember one incident when one chinese guy was arrested for some illegal work in Australia. To pressurize Australia to release him, china arrested 2 Australians falsely under serious charges. Such an uncivilized regime in power in china. To boycott it completely is the only solution.
 
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