India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[HawkisRight]

So the daughter is lying?
What is nuanced in it?
His pension had not been stopped as claimed by a member here and the author of the statesman.
He was drawing pension based on last salary drawn. But, that's not based on the rank he holds ( Field Marshal).
So, he was getting pension but that was not equivalent to his rank.

But, was he mistreated? Yes as a Field Marshal he should have been getting full salary and other benefits equivalent to the rank he holds. (Field Marshal never retires)
And that anomaly was corrected and that's what was paid after President Kalam's intervention.
Let's not take help of a lie to propagate our views against some one or some agencies.

Hearsays are just hearsay, let's dig and find our what's the truth. Just because it's coming from a media house I don't like, doesn't mean it's automatically wrong.

One more from my side.

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www.outlookindia.com

Field Marshal Manekshaw receives pay arrears of Rs.11.6mn

Manekshaw, currently recuperating in a military hospital, on Wednesday received a cheque of Rs.11.6 million in back wages from the time he assumed the rank in 1973.

www.dnaindia.com

Manekshaw gets cheque of Rs 1.16 crore for back wages

A cheque for back wages of over Rs 1.16 crore was today handed over to ailing Field Marshal S H F J Manekshaw, a day after the government decided to pay all surviving marshals of the Armed Forces a salary equivalent to that of Service Chiefs.

zeenews.india.com

Yes sir that's why I said nuanced
Manekshaw got screwed by Congress there is no doubt about it
Now major Arya is pointing it out in blunt and simplistic overview
But What u said was Major Arya is lying drawing assumption from quint story...that I don't agree with you..left ecosystem don't like types of major Arya so they are playing their typical propaganda..a classic misinformation playbook

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

but we are blaming congress and nehru even before the stand-off

i agree on your 2nd point, we should double our defense spending.

Not double but rise it to respectable levels. Since 2015, our budget hasnt risen in dollar terms. From 2% of GDP in 2014 it's now 1.5% of GDP. With Economy contracting this year, we need money for development projects as well. But 10-12% in dollar terms will do. And sustain for next 5 years.
Anyway I have a feeling that this govt is going to wait till winter. The worst part is our winter infra is also bad for us to sustain. For them I won't be surprised if they can develop infra in next 2 months. And they are going to use digital strike or such things to normalize their stealing of our land.

 

[garg_bharat]

What is role of Europe in this. Europeans are too selfish and divided (despite EU). EU itself may not last if Euro sinks.

 

[ladder]

Yes sir that's why I said nuanced
Manekshaw got screwed by Congress there is no doubt about it
Now major Arya is pointing it out in blunt and simplistic overview
But What u said was Major Arya is lying drawing assumption from quint story...that I don't agree with you..left ecosystem don't like types of major Arya so they are playing their typical propaganda..a classic misinformation playbook

Nothing is misinformation Sir.
Be the member in question here or Maj. Gaurav Arya, both shouldn't present hearsay from party discussion as evidence of misconduct of then Govt.

Leave the forum, it is inconsequential, but on national television?

He could very well have said 'Congress did not pay Sam Bahadur his dues as salary and associated perks for the rank of Field Marshal'.

Was that too difficult to understand and tell?
But no he didn't.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Guys have you seen the recent news coverages from Wion?

It does look like rhetoric is being ramped up.

 

[prasadr14]

At least they have a connection ... may be they have some issues..

What about the million anti national mutineers in NJU, Jadvapur University, Hydrabad University, Jamai Milia or AMU etc. thousand of media persons. professors, teachers , striking OFB employees, sabotaging DODOs and scheming bureaucrats, Moles in MEA and thousands of Party workers..

You mean all of them are ex Army or kids of Armywalas.... that argument was idiocy of highest order..

Don't jump the gun.
No one is comparing here....well, except you.

The people you pointed, we all know what kind quite a few of them are.
no one is disputing the fact or arguing with you about that fact.

I was making an observation & trying to see what could drive a section that by logic should be more patriotic than normal people, to be like the Ajay Shuklas of the world.

Don't be so touchy & imagine what you want to imagine to start an argument.

 

[tarunraju]

Wasn't this child fondler singing the kashmir tune just a couple of days ago?

If Elected, Bolstering Ties With Natural Partner India Will Be High Priority: Joe Biden - News18

At the fundraiser hosted by Chairman and CEO of Beacon Capital Partners Alan Leventhal, the former vice president said that India and the United States were natural partners.

www.news18.com

 

[utubekhiladi]

Wasn't this child fondler singing the kashmir tune just a couple of days ago?

If Elected, Bolstering Ties With Natural Partner India Will Be High Priority: Joe Biden - News18

At the fundraiser hosted by Chairman and CEO of Beacon Capital Partners Alan Leventhal, the former vice president said that India and the United States were natural partners.

www.news18.com

yes, yes, thats him... he is the snake... he is bad news for india.

 

[Cheran]

Wasn't this child fondler singing the kashmir tune just a couple of days ago?

If Elected, Bolstering Ties With Natural Partner India Will Be High Priority: Joe Biden - News18

At the fundraiser hosted by Chairman and CEO of Beacon Capital Partners Alan Leventhal, the former vice president said that India and the United States were natural partners.

www.news18.com

Not just Kashmir but CAA, NRC & Assam as well.

 

[garg_bharat]

Wasn't this child fondler singing the kashmir tune just a couple of days ago?

If Elected, Bolstering Ties With Natural Partner India Will Be High Priority: Joe Biden - News18

At the fundraiser hosted by Chairman and CEO of Beacon Capital Partners Alan Leventhal, the former vice president said that India and the United States were natural partners.

www.news18.com

This guy is very unlikely to be elected. I have a feeling there will be a delay in USA election and a third candidate will emerge.

The Covid19 situation is quite bad in USA. There is no hope it will get better anytime soon. Although people are talking about postal ballots, such ballots for population at large is going to be challenged in Courts. Biden is old and possibly suffers from dementia.

 

[Sanglamorre]

What /Which prediction.

That within 48 hrs there will be a news of de-escalation. GoI would capitulate and retract their demands that Chinese must go back to their positions prior to April. The de escalation will be on Chinese terms and status quo as of current will be accepted and Chinese will remain where they are.

Hellfire has confirmed that's what happening as well. Read the thread.

 

[Kumata]

@Kumata what is the conclusion of your investigation on this topic?
Dear sir, do your have anything to add on this, that I need to take into account before reserving my opinion?

Offtopic for the thread -

What Bhadra said i true to some extend.

Sams pension was not stopped fully and no power in this world could do that but he was denied his full pension for his whole life. All he got was Basic pension with no additional benefits. If we consider this enough than something is wring with us .

Apparently, those in power were pissed off with him for obvious reasons. Ever military historian will tell you that political decision to go on war might have come from indira Gandhi but it was because of Sam's decision to hold it for 6-8 months that resulted in victory & glory for nation. Gandhi was ready to join in june / July itself but Sam got her to postpone it to dec to prepare. I will leave it to judgement of knowledgeable members here to judge and see whose decisions mattered more. Unfortunately, 71 was again used to score political brownie points for first family .

Salary - As a 5 star general, he was suppose to get his full salary for whole life. It was denied by those in power. He received that at his death bed post efforts from none other than the supreme commander of armed forces aka than president of india Dr kalam . There also, he was worried about "Tax" Implications. Such was the man called "Sam Bahadur Manekshaw" .

TBH, I do concur with what bhadra said. We search for our heros on bollywood and cricketers but our real heroes are like of Sam. I choose to go against a career in Army / Defence b,cause i saw my Grand pa / dad struggle to get us 3 kids decent education ...My Priority was to take care of myself and start earning . He spend his whole life on borders and still could not afford a car at the time of retirement. it was his dream to come home in his own car As a good son, I ensured he gets that at his retirement. I am not saying that govt should have given him that car but that shows how much he was getting paid at his middle rank.

It is only after lots of hue & cry that OROP and pay commissions were implemented to bring some pay parity but still just see the way Para-military forces like BSF / ITBP /CRPD are treated.

 

[Kumata]

Wasn't this child fondler singing the kashmir tune just a couple of days ago?

If Elected, Bolstering Ties With Natural Partner India Will Be High Priority: Joe Biden - News18

At the fundraiser hosted by Chairman and CEO of Beacon Capital Partners Alan Leventhal, the former vice president said that India and the United States were natural partners.

www.news18.com

Some body in his campaign must have told him about huge hindu / indian diaspora votes.. so doing a bit of course correction..

Had a word with few colleagues in US ... nobody can stop trump...

 

[Bhadra]

Don't jump the gun.
No one is comparing here....well, except you.

The people you pointed, we all know what kind quite a few of them are.
no one is disputing the fact or arguing with you about that fact.

I was making an observation & trying to see what could drive a section that by logic should be more patriotic than normal people, to be like the Ajay Shuklas of the world.

Don't be so touchy & imagine what you want to imagine to start an argument.

Well you specifically said Ex Army and the Army kids and wished to point out that groups without due diligence and caring for others sensibilities.
Now when I ask you a question you are running to Timbuktu.

Out of Forty six Lakh ex servicemen. two bad apple gave you an opportunity to declare apple as a species to be bad..
Do not you have basic reasoning ability ??Or the itch is irresistible.

 

[patriots]

.....................so de escalation.....................

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

That within 48 hrs there will be a news of de-escalation. GoI would capitulate and retract their demands that Chinese must go back to their positions prior to April. The de escalation will be on Chinese terms and status quo as of current will be accepted and Chinese will remain where they are.

Hellfire has confirmed that's what happening as well. Read the thread.

wtf!! if this is true it's unforgivable and humiliating.

 

[Kumata]

wtf!! if this is true it's unforgivable and humiliating.

Dont jump the gun. reach between the lines...

 

[garg_bharat]

wtf!! if this is true it's unforgivable and humiliating.

India MUST NOT go to war with China alone; but act in unison with other countries.

Otherwise India will be repeating USSR in WW2; and will have very high personnel losses.

India can reclaim lost ground when situation is favourable.

Tactical retreat is valid technique in a war to avoid crippling losses.

 

[sydsnyper]

Some body in his campaign must have told him about huge hindu / indian diaspora votes.. so doing a bit of course correction..

Had a word with few colleagues in US ... nobody can stop trump...

I too was among the ones thinking Trump was an unbeatable juggernaut, but his health is failing (there are recent videos of him being unable to lift his arm and shuffling while walking down a ramp). Secondly, his posture with the COVID and BLM protests has lost him a lot of voters. This was evident in a recent okhlahoma rally where he said on TV that he has sold a million tickets to a stadium that could house around 2 lakh people and only 19,000 turned up. He was very very very pissed off at that.

I cant say for sure if he will lose, only because Biden is seen as a weakling and miracles have worked for Trump in the past with the FBI investigation, the impeachment and the pornstar scandal....

 

[ladder]

Offtopic for the thread -

What Bhadra said i true to some extend.

Sams pension was not stopped fully and no power in this world could do that but he was denied his full pension for his whole life. All he got was Basic pension with no additional benefits. If we consider this enough than something is wring with us .

Apparently, those in power were pissed off with him for obvious reasons. Ever military historian will tell you that political decision to go on war might have come from indira Gandhi but it was because of Sam's decision to hold it for 6-8 months that resulted in victory & glory for nation. Gandhi was ready to join in june / July itself but Sam got her to postpone it to dec to prepare. I will leave it to judgement of knowledgeable members here to judge and see whose decisions mattered more. Unfortunately, 71 was again used to score political brownie points for first family .

Salary - As a 5 star general, he was suppose to get his full salary for whole life. It was denied by those in power. He received that at his death bed post efforts from none other than the supreme commander of armed forces aka than president of india Dr kalam . There also, he was worried about "Tax" Implications. Such was the man called "Sam Bahadur Manekshaw" .

TBH, I do concur with what bhadra said. We search for our heros on bollywood and cricketers but our real heroes are like of Sam. I choose to go against a career in Army / Defence b,cause i saw my Grand pa / dad struggle to get us 3 kids decent education ...My Priority was to take care of myself and start earning . He spend his whole life on borders and still could not afford a car at the time of retirement. it was his dream to come home in his own car As a good son, I ensured he gets that at his retirement. I am not saying that govt should have given him that car but that shows how much he was getting paid at his middle rank.

It is only after lots of hue & cry that OROP and pay commissions were implemented to bring some pay parity but still just see the way Para-military forces like BSF / ITBP /CRPD are treated.

1. A plain lie can't be constituted as 'true to some extent'
2. He plainly and squarely has said, Pension was 'stopped'.
3. Please provide citation that he was getting 'basic pension' only and additional benefits w.r.t pension was not paid to him since 1973. No hearsay please.
4. I too personally feel that he should have got full salary of that of rank of Field Marshall. But my assertion will not stand in any court of law as the post was modelled as such. It was changed ( only for Living Marshals) by President Kalam.
So, while it may be morally ( at least for me) wrong but not legally. Again relates to point number 3.
5. Bangladesh war - off topic
6. And lurkers visiting here are getting a glimpse of the veterans who lie and depend on hearsay and pass disparaging comments on all bonafide institutions of G.oI. Great example for the society to emulate and find heros among their cadre.
7. Sorry, won't take this discussion to personal level. Please don't take it otherwise.
8. Yes, again OROP was long over due and our soldiers and officers deserve better but, what that has to do with Sam Bahadur's case? Two separate events.
9. Bhadra even says CAPF are paid better salary than their Army counterparts. Never bothered to provide citation. When other side provided and it wasn't the case went into obfuscation. (Typical Bhardradiot phenomena)

So, sticking to topic.
Bhadra's assertion that pensions was 'stopped' now stands as 'denied his full pension for his whole life'

Let's see if this is true.