India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[sydsnyper]

Has anyone read or listened to John Bolton (I know he's a war hawk), but why is everyone pretending Trump is coming to our rescue? The man is waiting for the next photo op, If he gets re-elected I have serious doubts whether he will carry on being hawkish towards China or if he will calm down as soon as he reaches a trade deal with CCP. Joe Biden isn't a good alternative either so I would be hesitant to assume Trump will continue with his antics post election if he can get some concessions from China, whether that be a trade deal or something else.

Correct bro, I replied something similar to someone else in this thread, the US is tied in a major political quagmire. There is another Bolton claim that trump explicitly supported jinping on the matter of the uyighur camps.

Trump supported concentration camps for Uighur Muslims, ex-aide claims

The claims came to light on the same day the president signed into legislation the Uighur Human Rights Policy Act of 2020 to hold accountable the perpetrators of human rights violations and abuses

www.independent.co.uk

 

[dude00720]

Darjeeling tea gardens' sell-off deal brews fear of Chinese takeover

The West Bengal government has red-flagged attempts by two tea companies to sell some of their gardens in Darjeeling, fearing indirect Chinese investment.

thefederal.com

Very interesting

Summary: 6 tea gardens owned by Alchemist group and Ambotia group are sold to investors in Singapore.
Alchemist Group -: Founder -: KD Singh , Trinamul Congress MP and investor in Tehelka(remember Tarun Tejpal)
Ambootia Group -: Founder -: Sanjay Bansal -: All looks good.

But, it seems singapore investors could have chinese money

 

[cannonfodder]

Correct bro, I replied something similar to someone else in this thread, the US is tied in a major political quagmire. There is another Bolton claim that trump explicitly supported jinping on the matter of the uyighur camps.

Trump supported concentration camps for Uighur Muslims, ex-aide claims

The claims came to light on the same day the president signed into legislation the Uighur Human Rights Policy Act of 2020 to hold accountable the perpetrators of human rights violations and abuses

www.independent.co.uk

Trump is transactional in his dealings but his posturing is not ant-india. He will reduce immigration to please his political base but his approach is not based on india hating.

Now compare that to biden's public posturing vis-a-vis india/kashmir issue which is internal matter of india.

I don't think trump govt will get involved in India-China matter but can provide intelligence/logistic help etc for money ( they will take adv of the situation no doubt), one cannot say the same with biden. That is why people here consider trump more favorable. The difference is relative. Also US is largely dependent on China on manufacturing, so in general don't expect too much is my honest opinion.

 

[garg_bharat]

Important news:

US Regulator Classifies Huawei, ZTE As Security Threats, Cuts Off Funding

The two Chinese companies will no longer be used as suppliers for projects under the FCC’s Universal Service Fund.

gadgets.ndtv.com

Chinese companies need to be thrown out of Indian telecom too.

Chinese telecom equipment is a huge risk to our defence establishment and critical industrial and scientific knowledge pools.

No point fighting on border when fort has fallen already.

 

[johnq]

Allowing Chinese to dam or change course of Galwan river is a mistake. It's currently a bottleneck for PLA and gives India a tactical advantage. India should engage them now instead of waiting for them to finish their construction at the Galwan river. Otherwise they will keep coming in greater numbers until they destroy India's newly constructed roads, which becomes easier to do as they close the distance.

 

[Rudy123]

Does anyone know from where Chinese road start in Galwan? It seems they moved heavy machinery but no media ever shown on map about beginning of that road.

 

[Khich]

There could be a temporary de-escalation. Talks are to this end. However trust is zero; and a flare up soon is more likely than a long detente. China is hellbent on taking advantage of chaos in the USA where Covid19 is out of control and morale is fairly low.

Pulling back forces is not a bad thing if happens on both sides. But expect no miracles.

I said 3-4 months before, and I stick to that. Chinese are watching our military deployment and analyzing. They are looking for weak points. So any pullback on Chinese side will be for show only.

And i hope the Indian side is analyzing as well

 

[tarunraju]

P-8I with Harpoon AGM anti-ship missiles. If it spots a submarine breathing on the surface, the missile can take the submarine out even before it can dive (because subs lack the air-defense capabilities of surface vessels).

 

[Bhadra]

What Are the Options Now​

Post #4098 .....
I had told you so..
So what are the options available with India having reached almost a stalemate.
Stalemate is bad for India without getting back encroached territory or imposing a heavy cost on China in visible military spectrum - that is causing heavy attrition.
That can only be successfully achieved by making the Chinese attack Indian Defenses rather than Indians attacking Chinese strongholds.

The Options therefore are -

Option One- Occupy Chinese territory somewhere else in sizable mass to force Chinese to attack Indian positions in Ladakh or build up at that new encroachment to attack. A place like Longhju , Dhola / Lungrola Ridge. Asaphila. or Lipulekh - Taklakot or even Dolam can be carefully chosen. This would extend the war to the entire LAC. But that is the only way to maneuver into advantage to force Chinese to thin out from Ladakh or buckle in.

Option Two Build in large forces in Ladakh taking advantage of the situation. Hold the Chinese on LAC but launch the main operations in Skardu - Gilgit to cut off / threaten CPEC. China will be forced to attack Indian defenses on LAC and help realize Indian objectives. This option requires international consensus building specially USA and West. It is likely to garner much support from all who wish to cut Chinese to the size. However, this a classical two front war and the scope will be very large from which India and China can have no escape clauses. This may engulf entire Pakistan border. However, Indian forces stand an advantage of utilization of its comprehensive military power including her Navy from a position of advantage.

India must force the Chinese into offensive rather than fight from the advantages of the present defensive stalemate.

Time Frame - Only 30 days intense, swift and conclusive war after 20 October. After 20 November let the weather take hold of the situation. Till then build all resources and collect forces

 

[utubekhiladi]

View attachment 51688

P-8I with Harpoon AGM anti-ship missiles. If it spots a submarine breathing on the surface, the missile can take the submarine out even before it can dive (because subs lack the air-defense capabilities of surface vessels).

what if the sub is already very well submerged

 

[Indibomber2]

XRSAM has a range of 350km against slow targets like AWACS, refuelers and 250km against fast moving targets like fighter jets.

When will it be inducted? No point if the plan is to add it in 2030 war would have ended with no Pakistani to cry over technology leaps Indians are making

 

[utubekhiladi]

What Are the Options Now​

Post #4098 .....
I had told you so..
So what are the options available with India having reached almost a stalemate.
Stalemate is bad for India without getting back encroached territory or imposing a heavy cost on China in visible military spectrum - that is causing heavy attrition.
That can only be successfully achieved by making the Chinese attack Indian Defenses rather than Indians attacking Chinese strongholds.

The Options therefore are -

Option One- Occupy Chinese territory somewhere else in sizable mass to force Chinese to attack Indian positions in Ladakh or build up at that new encroachment to attack. A place like Longhju , Dhola / Lungrola Ridge. Asaphila. or Lipulekh - Taklakot or even Dolam can be carefully chosen. This would extend the war to the entire LAC. But that is the only way to maneuver into advantage to force Chinese to thin out from Ladakh or buckle in.

Option Two Build in large forces in Ladakh taking advantage of the situation. Hold the Chinese on LAC but launch the main operations in Skardu - Gilgit to cut off / threaten CPEC. China will be forced to attack Indian defenses on LAC and help realize Indian objectives. This option requires international consensus building specially USA and West. It is likely to garner much support from all who wish to cut Chinese to the size. However, this a classical two front war and the scope will be very large from which India and China can have no escape clauses. This may engulf entire Pakistan border. However, Indian forces stand an advantage of utilization of its comprehensive military power including her Navy from a position of advantage.

India must force the Chinese into offensive rather than fight from the advantages of the present defensive stalemate.

Time Frame - Only 30 days intense, swift and conclusive war after 20 October. After 20 November let the weather take hold of the situation. Till then build all resources and collect forces

option three: initiate old start doctrine and take out his girlfriend and liberate kashmir and chock CPEC and its highway.

 

[garg_bharat]

Does anyone know from where Chinese road start in Galwan? It seems they moved heavy machinery but no media ever shown on map about beginning of that road.

They are sitting on a plateau. They have a big advantage. They can build roads much faster than us.

 

[garg_bharat]

option three: initiate old start doctrine and take out his girlfriend and liberate kashmir and chock CPEC and its highway.

India cannot act alone. This urge to act alone MUST be suppressed. This is the biggest weakness of Hindus.

Don't bury your head in the sand.

Build strong alliances. And act in unison with allies.

My analysis is that India lacks key technologies to take China head on. India can fight a border war with high cost; but these border wars are pointless. Unless bigger strategic objectives are achieved, the war has no meaning.

The biggest payoff will be in Sindh. High risk high reward. Go for Sindh.

Karakoram highway is nothing. It's strategic value is small. And airfield in Skardu is hard to defend.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Army moves 3 divisions, tanks to Ladakh sector

Army moves 3 divisions, tanks to Ladakh sector

A large number of the troop reinforcements sent to Ladakh have been drawn from the army’s reserve formations, based in a mountainous region in north India and another state in the Hindi-speaking belt.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[Bhadra]

Galwan Calling Indian SF
​

So what is the problems in Galwan... ??

A small piece of land on a river bend occupied by the Chinese. Chinese are occupying the river bed at many blobs and Chinese road by the side of the stream.

What wil threaten The Chinese Disposition ' Chinese themselves have shwon the way. Block the river at suitable place to form a lake or break a large glacial lake upstrem to cause a huge flood capable of washing down the Chinese men and materiel as also destroy the road.

How To Cause flood. Select a narrow flattish rocky gorge upstream and trigger massive landslide by explosions on both the sides of the of the gorge. Create an artifial lake over some days and then explode the blockage. Alternatively break a large size glacial lake upstream. Well there is local population anywhere.
Time Period. About four to five days.
Force Level - One SF team trained in rock climbing laden with explosive and one platoon of Para combat engineers.
Insertion and Extraction The SF know that the best.

This will sort out many problems rather than dealing with the single issue of PP14.

Risk Own troops in Galwan valley and the bridge...

 

[UZI™️]

What Are the Options Now​

Post #4098 .....
I had told you so..
So what are the options available with India having reached almost a stalemate.
Stalemate is bad for India without getting back encroached territory or imposing a heavy cost on China in visible military spectrum - that is causing heavy attrition.
That can only be successfully achieved by making the Chinese attack Indian Defenses rather than Indians attacking Chinese strongholds.

The Options therefore are -

Option One- Occupy Chinese territory somewhere else in sizable mass to force Chinese to attack Indian positions in Ladakh or build up at that new encroachment to attack. A place like Longhju , Dhola / Lungrola Ridge. Asaphila. or Lipulekh - Taklakot or even Dolam can be carefully chosen. This would extend the war to the entire LAC. But that is the only way to maneuver into advantage to force Chinese to thin out from Ladakh or buckle in.

Option Two Build in large forces in Ladakh taking advantage of the situation. Hold the Chinese on LAC but launch the main operations in Skardu - Gilgit to cut off / threaten CPEC. China will be forced to attack Indian defenses on LAC and help realize Indian objectives. This option requires international consensus building specially USA and West. It is likely to garner much support from all who wish to cut Chinese to the size. However, this a classical two front war and the scope will be very large from which India and China can have no escape clauses. This may engulf entire Pakistan border. However, Indian forces stand an advantage of utilization of its comprehensive military power including her Navy from a position of advantage.

India must force the Chinese into offensive rather than fight from the advantages of the present defensive stalemate.

Time Frame - Only 30 days intense, swift and conclusive war after 20 October. After 20 November let the weather take hold of the situation. Till then build all resources and collect forces

Option Three - Wait till Winter comes and see who chickens out first?

 

[utubekhiladi]

Option Three - Wait till Winter comes and see who chickens out first?

thats option 4.

i already gave option 3

 

[Bhadra]

what if the sub is already very well submerged

That is even better. The platform is best suited to detect a submerged submarines by various methods..

 

[Bhadra]

thats option 4.

i already gave option 3

Al that is option two only....