India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Sanglamorre]

I have asked this before. If there is no bridge for us to get there then how did we clashed with Chinese there??

Wading through the water. It's a mountain stream, less water more rocks.

 

[Sanglamorre]

At this moment it is very difficult to localize any shoot out.
It will flare up all along the LAC, One can control ones actions but not enemy behavior. The political costs on both sides are heavy.

Incidental / accidental shootouts would remain localized may be but any planned action will be a full fledged combat supported by all combat plate forms 0 artillery , rockets and even air support.
PP 14 has emerged as the a possible flash point if the GoI is unable to keep its nerves.
Depsang / Y junction action will straight away mean War.

From Indian perspective. Sept / Oct will be correct time to initiate combat.

Jul / Aug will be difficult as the logistics lines to Ladakh south of Himalayas will be under monsoon.

India would also like to build up DBO as a base for operations of an armored brigade of T-90 with one Recce and Support Regt..

Doesn't that mean Chinese will try to attack in Jul-Aug since we'll be inconvenienced then?

 

[daya]

The best available gear must be provided to our great soldiers. Whole universe knew it that China could play mischievous any time, but this fact is not known to our bureaucrats, our leadership. Dushman koi permission lega pahle hamse. Lacking in squadron strength. Having only 2 AWACS. Ab ye hona chahiye, wo hona chahiye, iski kami hai, uski kami hai.. Ye kami aaj thode ho gayi.. Pahle se hai.. Varshon se hai.. Fir varshon se kyo lethargic bane rahe.. Emergency procurement me bahar wala lootega hi....

 

[doreamon]

Now chinese control the area frm f4 to f8 which used to be grey .. constructed helipad , bunker . Cnt say if they control pp14 as well in galwan . All this happen without fighting a war . with some skirmishes with nailed clubs . Now thats called strategy . Used perfectly our current situation . though they lost men more than us they grabbed land for which they came... they knw capability of indian state economically as well as in defence at this moment , And wht our threshold is .. Its time for us to renew our world outlook and realize we live in a ruthless neighbourhood . Need to dramatically enhance defence budget and capability of indigenous defence capacity .

 

[Dharmocrat]

Delhi apprises world capitals of LAC action, PLA’s buildup

Snippet

Delhi apprises world capitals of LAC action, PLA’s buildup

Delhi has also informed various foreign interlocutors that respecting and strictly observing the Line of Actual Control is the basis for peace and tranquillity in the border areas. The Indian Army has been patrolling all along the LAC, including in the Galwan Valley, for a long time.

m.economictimes.com

So, it seems we have conveyed that Chinese have broken 1993 aggrement in spirit. But are we ready to break it in letter?
Things are heading south it seems.

This is eerily similar to the foreign trips of Indira Gandhi before 1971 war.

She undertook these foreign trips in the intervening period of 8 months that FM Manekshaw ji asked for IA to be ready to go ahead and cut Pak in half.

So What could be the timeframe for the action to start. ?

Guys we have to remember what Modi said after 370 removal regarding the preparation undertaken for the same. Remember the removal of 370 action Ka foundation was forming a joint govt with PDP. SO ALMOST 5 YEARS OF PATIENT GROUNDWORK. I am paraphrasing here.

We are from Sangh where we are taught discipline in doing things. We never do things halfway. We undertake everything with full preparation and are very thorough.

What could be the final preps to be completed that would enable us to effectively tackle a 2 front war ?

Look at what the armed forces and MoD are doing now.

More AAMs. Check
More ammunition for artillery. Esp the precision kind. Check
Stockpiling spares for AF for high availability during surge operations. Check
Surge forces in the area and move in supplies. Check
Undertake emergency construction of border infra esp the critical ones. Check.

Please add to this list what everyone else has observed so that we can get a full picture.

Let's analyze and not just discuss with impossible things like US troops in India and India buying F 16.

 

[cereal killer]

Wow just wow

Nitin bhaiya has decided to take everyone for a ride and make a fool out of them.

So let me sum up this article for you.

MEA:- China has been moving troops from last may breaking breaking various treaties they are amassing at various flashpoints and their troop levels are surging.
China can only hope for peace if they stop building illegal structures.

This general:-

Over the last 5 days we are actually seeing troop reduction. There is only a 30% increase not much and now our relations with china is improving.

Nitin:-

I believe that those structures in galwan are actually Indian and not chinese see look at this article.

General's response in article:-

he could not confirm whether the structure demolished by Colonel Babu had been reconstructed by the Chinese. As he said: “I won’t say yes or no.” He said he just did not know. At one point in the interview he said that at or around Patrolling Point 14, satellite images show some white or pink spots which could be a consequence of the process of disengagement or, perhaps, some new Chinese-built structure.

Instead of backing up his claim the general ends up refuting it but nitin takes us all for fools.

Question:-

Satellite images and multiple videos are showing that they have built a road and blocked our patrol in pangong Tso.
They have also built trenches.


There are videos showing the Chinese are moving trucks Mrap etc.

General:-
Simply says none of it is true.

But what really caught me was the way he was replying I don't know I'm not sure you are a senior member of NSAB how the hell do you not know.
If you don't want to answer you can say I cannot comment on that.

Instead he says I don't know I'm not sure maybe they are Chinese.

Everyone is refuting everyone else.

And above all this nitin decides to act smart.

If that camp is Indian why are their 2 trenches facing each other?

Why is there no temporary bridge to connect the 2 sides surely to build a camp of that side you would need to move a lot of materials no way army decides to just pass through the river.

I heard GD Bakshi saying Chinese have set up tents on PP 14. I trust him over that Nitin.

 

[IndianHawk]

Wading through the water. It's a mountain stream, less water more rocks.

The question is for those who claim pink tents are Chinese because we can't reach there because no bridge is visible.

 

[IndianHawk]

I belive that the river is simply shallow enough that a person can cross it by foot.

But when you are constructing a camp of that size it only makes sense that a temporary bridge is made to move the equipment.

It wi be risky to carry to carry all that equipment through the river since it will be very slippery.

A temporary bridge might take like 10-15 min to be built.

Even I am to believe that that they all just carried the equipment on their shoulders and moved to the other side it still does not explain why are their trenches facing each other.

It's a satellite image . Those trenches may be something else entirely.

 

[Knowitall]

It's a satellite image . Those trenches may be something else entirely.

Like what?

 

[captscooby81]

Sad loss of lives, looks like we are going to see repeat of Op parakram again large mobilisation and casualties just because of accidents and some mishaps . Hope we don't loose 500 soldiers just in mobilisation like 2002 and come back without firing a bullet

How did we lose them ?

 

[Suryavanshi]

Now chinese control the area frm f4 to f8 which used to be grey .. constructed helipad , bunker . Cnt say if they control pp14 as well in galwan . All this happen without fighting a war . with some skirmishes with nailed clubs . Now thats called strategy .

They did a Chinese version of operation meghdoot on us.

 

[IndianHawk]

Like what?

I don't know . I haven't zoomed in too much clutter. Point is it's very limited what can be interpreted from satellite image of that class( civilian resolution).

That lac line on that satellite image could also be hundreds of meter east or west on actual ground.

 

[Bhadra]

Doesn't that mean Chinese will try to attack in Jul-Aug since we'll be inconvenienced then?

There troops are in that area for last three months. If they wanted to attack they would have by now when we had very less troops there.

 

[ARVION]

I hope this will help he to understand the situation's

 

[IndianHawk]

They did a Chinese version of operation meghdoot on us.

It's not over yet. We won't settle for anything less than April status quo. Or we will pink the entire region with Chinese blood. So that satellite experts can be accurate.

 

[Knowitall]

I don't know . I haven't zoomed in too much clutter. Point is it's very limited what can be interpreted from satellite image of that class( civilian resolution).

That lac line on that satellite image could also be hundreds of meter east or west on actual ground.

See this image sirji look the breath of the river soldiers moving with normal load is one thing but moving all that construction material to make that camp is a very different thing.

 

[IndianHawk]

So deescalation is out of question now. We are heading for war . Finally....

 

[ARVION]

So deescalation is out of question now. We are heading for war . Finally....

But we have to fought the war at our terms not on their Term's

 

[IndianHawk]

See this image sirji look the breath of the river soldiers moving with normal load is one thing but moving all that construction material to make that camp is a very different thing.

There was no water there few days ago. There can't be more than a foot of water suddenly.

 

[another_armchair]

I belive that the river is simply shallow enough that a person can cross it by foot.

But when you are constructing a camp of that size it only makes sense that a temporary bridge is made to move the equipment.

It wi be risky to carry to carry all that equipment through the river since it will be very slippery.

A temporary bridge might take like 10-15 min to be built.

Even I am to believe that that they all just carried the equipment on their shoulders and moved to the other side it still does not explain why are their trenches facing each other.

'Shallow' depends on where you are crossing it or could be entirely your perception.

Two of our soldiers died of drowning in the Galwan river recently.
Two fell into the river, a third who jumped in to rescue them drowned along with one of the two who fell first into the river.
Simple Life Jackets or floating boards(weigh very less) around the soldiers would have ensured they wouldn't drown and thus save lives but neither "Bada Afsar" nor "Babu" thinks these things are important. We need S-400 and what not.

Op Parakram claimed 798 soldiers

NEW DELHI: The Kargil conflict led to the death of 527 Indian soldiers while heroically taking back heights occupied by Pakistanis in 1999. Shockingly, without going to war, 798 soldiers have been...

web.archive.org

NEW DELHI: The Kargil conflict led to the death of 527 Indian soldiers while heroically taking back heights occupied by Pakistanis in 1999. Shockingly, without going to war, 798 soldiers have been killed during Operation Parakram.
"During Operation Parakram up to July 2003, a total number of 798 Army personnel suffered fatal casualties," said Defence Minister George Fernandes in Lok Sabha on Thursday.

In the initial phase of Operation Parakram itself, around 100 soldiers were killed and 250 injured during mine-laying operations. Vehicle accidents, artillery duels with Pakistan and other incidents led to many more casualties.

How does one explain and justify this loss after shameful capitulation at Agra summit?