India-China Border conflict

[Master Chief]

chinese seem to be doing well , building everywhere like they have a free-money-hack .

AlsoTibet is a Plateau .. much easier for them..

 

[mist_consecutive]

road alignment had to be changed . u can see bit of it on google earth . just google for it.

they are better at construction than us . the galwan valley road is prime example

They put more resources & better equipment than us, yes.

But Galwan valley road is not a good example. It gets washed away every year and they have to repair it again & again. Nothing to be blamed, if you build a road in the floodplains of a narrow valley river, it is bound to overflow.

My travel blog in Tibet, 95% road were pretty nice.

Road trip to the west, my National Day holidays

Enjoyed the Tibetan food, almost every food related with yak.

defenceforumindia.com

Not saying China has/builds bad roads, just that they face natural forces like landslides & erosion just as same.

wasnt talking about the road , but how the hill/mountain is cut . saw comments on AP , old BRO roads being build poorly . even compared to state build roads . no expert on road construction - soo no idea how true/false it is .

Himalayas are tricky to figure out. For e.g., Joshimath is sinking centimeters per year. Now, no amount of science & engineering will save a road on a sinking mountain.

Also our roads (see the road following the natural terrain of mountain valley).

Also our roads (see the mountain of sedimentary rocks deposition, its loose & easily caves, which makes the road vulnerable to falling rocks & landslides).

 

[mist_consecutive]

We simulated lots of air combats between PLAAF and IAF.

In the war game simulation by our community, most J20 took off from 1000km, like Golmud or Chengdu bases, and refuelled by Y20 tank.

Made IAF very hard to detect, since the Tibetan borders were too long.

View attachment 235734

This is simulation happened in sky of Karachi.

View attachment 235735


And this is simulation in A&Nicobar areas. J20 were also backed by Y20 tank.

View attachment 235736

But why would you attack Andaman & Nicobar islands ?

Also Y20 over open ocean (for refueller support) is just a big target for long-range AD situated at A&N islands and IN Ships. If you keep refuellers away (over Myanmar or China) J20 will run out of fuel by the time it reaches near A&N islands for any meaningful engagement.

Not a good strategy.

 

[rockdog]

But why would you attack Andaman & Nicobar islands ?

Also Y20 over open ocean (for refueller support) is just a big target for long-range AD situated at A&N islands and IN Ships. If you keep refuellers away (over Myanmar or China) J20 will run out of fuel by the time it reaches near A&N islands for any meaningful engagement.

Not a good strategy.

The background assumption was anti blockage of mallacca strait from Indian AF and navy.

China uses air bases from Burma local military junta.

So Y20 tankers were taking off at that area and J10 guarding them.

LCAs are also involved

 

[mokoman]

They put more resources & better equipment than us, yes.

But Galwan valley road is not a good example. It gets washed away every year and they have to repair it again & again. Nothing to be blamed, if you build a road in the floodplains of a narrow valley river, it is bound to overflow.



Not saying China has/builds bad roads, just that they face natural forces like landslides & erosion just as same.



Himalayas are tricky to figure out. For e.g., Joshimath is sinking centimeters per year. Now, no amount of science & engineering will save a road on a sinking mountain.

Also our roads (see the road following the natural terrain of mountain valley).

Also our roads (see the mountain of sedimentary rocks deposition, its loose & easily caves, which makes the road vulnerable to falling rocks & landslides).

galwan valley doesnt get washed away every year , where did u hear that ?

talking about the 40km+ from their pp15 to galwan base camp . they already blacktopped it and it looks the same as in 2020. even "most" of the section in bufferzone is intact , only looks broken because of image stretching in GE. was hoping it would wash away completely but not the case .

took them 1 night to block the river + few days to shift and build a bank then road to pp15 , same night our 20 people were killed

that large base 40+km away from pp15 u can see on GE is their army of construction vehicle+crews .

AlsoTibet is a Plateau .. much easier for them..

taking about AP , tibet LAC area opposite AP is not a plateau , will admit that they have better geography , single straight valley + population along it but rest is same as ours .

 

[mist_consecutive]

The background assumption was anti blockage of mallacca strait from Indian AF and navy.

China uses air bases from Burma local military junta.

Bold assumption that Burma will become Chinese client state like Pakistan.

View attachment 235760

LCAs are also involved

View attachment 235759

LCAs are unlikely to be fielded from A&N Islands due to their limited range. Su-30MKI/Mig-29s primarily.

Also a potential blockade will be reinforced by a CBG lurking around Malacca straight, so Mig-29Ks / Rafale-Ms can also be expected.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

All my life, I thought Arunachal had a population of > 10 million. Today is the first time i have found out that Arunachal's population is around 16 lakhs. That kind of explains why most of the state has no roads. Looking at the border, there seems to be minimal settlements around and most are national parks and protected forests.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

What the hell is this? This whole handle posts stuff from weibo

 

[Jimih]

What the hell is this? This whole handle posts stuff from weibo

Bakchodi

 

[mist_consecutive]

What the hell is this? This whole handle posts stuff from weibo

Useless rant.

 

[rockdog]

Useless rant.

Yes, the Sichuan-Tibet railway will be finished before 2030.

For current unfinished parts, 80% are tunnels.

The Sichuan–Tibet railway construction has received significant attention from both China and abroad. The new section from Ya’an to Nyingchi is about 1018.6 km long, including 69 tunnels with a total length of 841.7 km.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2467967421000969

 

[Azaad]

Someone forgot to tell Manojwa we've a date with destiny as far as China's concerned. If I didn't know better this seems a replay of the events leading up to 1962.

Artillery modernization is meandering, rocket force is yet to be raised, we're doing somewhat better as far as drones go with micro & minis being sourced locally & the heavier long endurance ones imported, Agniveers gradually taking over, etc.

One would've thought the best way forward in such a grim scenario would be to increase manpower intake or at least leave them at current levels. Sadly not to be.

The top brass seems to be totally out of their depths. This is going to end very badly.

 

[daya]

Someone forgot to tell Manojwa we've a date with destiny as far as China's concerned. If I didn't know better this seems a replay of the events leading up to 1962.

Artillery modernization is meandering, rocket force is yet to be raised, we're doing somewhat better as far as drones go with micro & minis being sourced locally & the heavier long endurance ones imported, Agniveers gradually taking over, etc.

One would've thought the best way forward in such a grim scenario would be to increase manpower intake or at least leave them at current levels. Sadly not to be.

The top brass seems to be totally out of their depths. This is going to end very badly.

Someone forgot to tell Manojwa we've a date with destiny as far as China's concerned. If I didn't know better this seems a replay of the events leading up to 1962.

Artillery modernization is meandering, rocket force is yet to be raised, we're doing somewhat better as far as drones go with micro & minis being sourced locally & the heavier long endurance ones imported, Agniveers gradually taking over, etc.

One would've thought the best way forward in such a grim scenario would be to increase manpower intake or at least leave them at current levels. Sadly not to be.

The top brass seems to be totally out of their depths. This is going to end very badly.

Upar walo ki post aur promotion ke chance bane rahne ke liye ye jaruri hai... neeche koi ho na ho,, upar wale command karne ke liye bane rahe..

 

[Hari Sud]

About two years back Force Magazine editor Pravin Sawhney published a book in which he alluded that Chinese can defeat India in the Himalayas in seven days with superior rocket force, better roads and other military hardware.

I wish to ask him today that since the Chinese Chief of Rocket force has been dismissed for filling the rockets with water….. Ha…..Ha….Ha. Are his views on Chinese rocket force still valid or he got paid to erite

Other weaknesses in their military hardware have been similar rather more glaring. Their major roads are under intense surveillance etc.,

Does he hold similar views today after so many problems discovered?

Oh Mr. Sawhney, you turned out to be paid Chinese spokesman in India.

 

[prasadr14]

About two years back Force Magazine editor Pravin Sawhney published a book in which he alluded that Chinese can defeat India in the Himalayas in seven days with superior rocket force, better roads and other military hardware.

I wish to ask him today that since the Chinese Chief of Rocket force has been dismissed for filling the rockets with water….. Ha…..Ha….Ha. Are his views on Chinese rocket force still valid or he got paid to erite

Other weaknesses in their military hardware have been similar rather more glaring. Their major roads are under intense surveillance etc.,

Does he hold similar views today after so many problems discovered?

Oh Mr. Sawhney, you turned out to be paid Chinese spokesman in India.

Even if Chinese had all the hardware of US, they would not be able to defeat India in 100 years.
Forget defeat, they would not even cross the mountain in 100 years.

This kind of analysis comes from people who have little idea of challenges facing due to such mountain ranges and extreme weather.

 

[JBH22]

About two years back Force Magazine editor Pravin Sawhney published a book in which he alluded that Chinese can defeat India in the Himalayas in seven days with superior rocket force, better roads and other military hardware.

I wish to ask him today that since the Chinese Chief of Rocket force has been dismissed for filling the rockets with water….. Ha…..Ha….Ha. Are his views on Chinese rocket force still valid or he got paid to erite

Other weaknesses in their military hardware have been similar rather more glaring. Their major roads are under intense surveillance etc.,

Does he hold similar views today after so many problems discovered?

Oh Mr. Sawhney, you turned out to be paid Chinese spokesman in India.

Rule No1: Never underestimate your enemy. Even if we look down on Pakistan they have surprised us. Now Chinese with larger industrial base, better defense budget, it will be a tough nut to crack.
It will not be cake walk for either side.

 

[Tshering22]

Rule No. 1: Never underestimate your enemy. Even if we look down on Pakistan they have surprised us. Now with a larger industrial base and a better defence budget, it will be a tough nut to crack.
It will not be a cakewalk for either side.

It is not an underestimating, but a fact. Defeating India requires an overwhelming odds of 8:1 in terms of manpower and 6:1 in terms of resources. We have to be Bangladesh-level for them to have a crushing victory over us.

China has a bigger economy but that does not guarantee victory. PLA also knows that fighting on the Himalayan borders from a plateau is a risk for their troops. Rocket forces will play a critical role but finding targets inside India away from air defence is much more difficult than targeting military formations in an open Tibet where there is no natural protection from incoming barrage of Indian missiles. The PLA will be sending their troops for a mass slaughter - they cannot afford that.

That is why their tactics are different. See, China's biggest priority is to "win wars without shooting". Meaning that if we are willing to call their bluff occasionally, they will not be willing to strike and open their cards to the world. They will fall back and look for other vulnerabilities.

 

[Blademaster]

Even if Chinese had all the hardware of US, they would not be able to defeat India in 100 years.
Forget defeat, they would not even cross the mountain in 100 years.

This kind of analysis comes from people who have little idea of challenges facing due to such mountain ranges and extreme weather.

Sorry they did crossed the mountains in the 1962 war because our leaders were complacent enough to believe that the mountains would stop them. They didn't and our leaders were shaking so hard in their dhotis that they ran to the US begging for emergency relief and supplies.

We will not make the same mistake twice by being complacent and believe that the mountains will stop them. We need to be ever vigilant and ready to take the fight to the enemy's shores and deep in their land to show we mean business.

 

[prasadr14]

Sorry they did crossed the mountains in the 1962 war because our leaders were complacent enough to believe that the mountains would stop them. They didn't and our leaders were shaking so hard in their dhotis that they ran to the US begging for emergency relief and supplies.

We will not make the same mistake twice by being complacent and believe that the mountains will stop them. We need to be ever vigilant and ready to take the fight to the enemy's shores and deep in their land to show we mean business.

true but that was more of an incursion and eventually they did go back due to the same mountains.

My scenario is one of China invading India & not incursion at border points limited to local areas.
That is entirely possible though.

What is not possible would be them committing most of their army, navy and airforce in a war to defeat India.

 

[daya]

Sorry they did crossed the mountains in the 1962 war because our leaders were complacent enough to believe that the mountains would stop them. They didn't and our leaders were shaking so hard in their dhotis that they ran to the US begging for emergency relief and supplies.

We will not make the same mistake twice by being complacent and believe that the mountains will stop them. We need to be ever vigilant and ready to take the fight to the enemy's shores and deep in their land to show we mean business.

True, our leadership is still myopic..