India-China Border conflict

[mokoman]

Really, never heard we fcuked up DBO road, any source ?



Not really. I have been following Chinese road development for a while. What China does it they follow the path of least resistance (valleys, rivers), which is significantly more stable ground than cutting through the mountain passes & heights. Also they make wider & solid roads (with concrete reinforcements) for falling rocks and landslides. Infinite debt money cheat code at work.

Even with all these, their roads are still as vulnerable as ours in high-rainfall areas like Arunachal Pradesh / Sikkim. I see them frequently being destroyed by landslides.



Yes, ofc. But Chinese has heavily invested in EW in the recent years.

road alignment had to be changed . u can see bit of it on google earth . just google for it.

they are better at construction than us . the galwan valley road is prime example

 

[AnantS]

road alignment had to be changed . u can see bit of it on google earth . just google for it.

they are better at construction than us . the galwan valley road is prime example

This is G219 .. seem pretty similar to what we have barring road reflectors and markings

 

[rockdog]

Really, never heard we fcuked up DBO road, any source ?



Not really. I have been following Chinese road development for a while. What China does it they follow the path of least resistance (valleys, rivers), which is significantly more stable ground than cutting through the mountain passes & heights. Also they make wider & solid roads (with concrete reinforcements) for falling rocks and landslides. Infinite debt money cheat code at work.

Even with all these, their roads are still as vulnerable as ours in high-rainfall areas like Arunachal Pradesh / Sikkim. I see them frequently being destroyed by landslides.



Yes, ofc. But Chinese has heavily invested in EW in the recent years.

My travel blog in Tibet, 95% road were pretty nice.

Road trip to the west, my National Day holidays

Enjoyed the Tibetan food, almost every food related with yak.

defenceforumindia.com

 

[rockdog]

Congratulations! You'd need all those J-20s & more when you launch your campaign to take Taiwan .

Why, you ask?

It's like this - all your WS series of TFs are based on the AL-31 F series with India mfg the AL-31 FP version & the AL-31 F powering the Su-27 version & the J-11 with the WS-10 now powering your J-11s derived as I mentioned earlier from the AL-31 F.

Coming to the J-20s , the initial power plants were the AL-31 FM2 from which the WS-10 C is derived which is now powering your latest & up coming batches of J-20 FA.

Now for the real meat of the story . The average MTBF - Mean Time Between Flights for a Su-30 MKI is 5-6 hrs for every hour of flight. By & large this MTBF holds true for all the FAs powered by variants of the AL-31 F series of TFs & MOST IMPORTANTLY for all its derivatives too like the entire WS series but especially the WS-10 C powering the J-20s, since that's the topic of our discussion.

This means for a sortie lasting 8 hrs the MTBF will be 40-48 hrs but there's a twist here - 5th Gen FAs have a longer MTBF as compared < 5th Gen FAs because STEALTH is maintenance intensive.
What will be the exact time required for a turn around of such a FA as far as the J-20s go is anyone's guess.

The F-35 is targeting a MTBF of 5 hrs. However, the present MTBF remains a closely guarded secret. Now, if the US is facing such huge problems with their already problematic F-35s which by any yard stick is a troubled program, I doubt anyone here including gotipua will trust the J-20 to better the MTBF of the F-35.

That's one of the key reasons why the US is building the F-35 in its thousands not the run of the mill explanations they pass on to whoever is willing to hear them that the numbers are to cater for the total replacements of the F-15, F-16 & F-18 from their inventories. Incidentally, aren't newer FAs supposed to be fewer as compared to the older ones they replace because of enhanced capabilities?

Hence my dear wumao, if the US fields 2000 F-35s by 2030 you'd require 3x that number just to keep up leave aside gaining an advantage.

And I haven't even got into the stealth aspects of the J-20 in comparison to the F-35 with it's Avionics, DAS, ACT, weapons package etc which is another story altogether, albeit a very brief one which you wouldn't want to read at all.

Now run along to the MSS & get something better for us to chew on.

Lots of ur info were incorrect.

There is a thread from day 1 when J20 came out, don't play as smart arse like u know everything.

J20 Stealth Fighter

defenceforumindia.com

I came here just update the no. of J20 in Tibet region will massively increase in following yrs.

 

[AnantS]

J20's getting deployed in Tibet would be dream true for IAF.

 

[rockdog]

Congratulations! You'd need all those J-20s & more when you launch your campaign to take Taiwan .

Why, you ask?

It's like this - all your WS series of TFs are based on the AL-31 F series with India mfg the AL-31 FP version & the AL-31 F powering the Su-27 version & the J-11 with the WS-10 now powering your J-11s derived as I mentioned earlier from the AL-31 F.

Coming to the J-20s , the initial power plants were the AL-31 FM2 from which the WS-10 C is derived which is now powering your latest & up coming batches of J-20 FA.

Now for the real meat of the story . The average MTBF - Mean Time Between Flights for a Su-30 MKI is 5-6 hrs for every hour of flight. By & large this MTBF holds true for all the FAs powered by variants of the AL-31 F series of TFs & MOST IMPORTANTLY for all its derivatives too like the entire WS series but especially the WS-10 C powering the J-20s, since that's the topic of our discussion.

This means for a sortie lasting 8 hrs the MTBF will be 40-48 hrs but there's a twist here - 5th Gen FAs have a longer MTBF as compared < 5th Gen FAs because STEALTH is maintenance intensive.
What will be the exact time required for a turn around of such a FA as far as the J-20s go is anyone's guess.

The F-35 is targeting a MTBF of 5 hrs. However, the present MTBF remains a closely guarded secret. Now, if the US is facing such huge problems with their already problematic F-35s which by any yard stick is a troubled program, I doubt anyone here including gotipua will trust the J-20 to better the MTBF of the F-35.

That's one of the key reasons why the US is building the F-35 in its thousands not the run of the mill explanations they pass on to whoever is willing to hear them that the numbers are to cater for the total replacements of the F-15, F-16 & F-18 from their inventories. Incidentally, aren't newer FAs supposed to be fewer as compared to the older ones they replace because of enhanced capabilities?

Hence my dear wumao, if the US fields 2000 F-35s by 2030 you'd require 3x that number just to keep up leave aside gaining an advantage.

And I haven't even got into the stealth aspects of the J-20 in comparison to the F-35 with it's Avionics, DAS, ACT, weapons package etc which is another story altogether, albeit a very brief one which you wouldn't want to read at all.

Now run along to the MSS & get something better for us to chew on.

u don't have enough knowledge about the J20, even claimes that ws10 was from AL31...

And didn't know the latest engine is new type named ws15...

Let me recalled u claimed Tibet railway was powered by HSR..

Plz, @Azaad for contributing good contents in this thread, stop making false information. Thank you.

 

[rockdog]

J20's getting deployed in Tibet would be dream true for IAF.

Mostly won't, it will be in Hotan base not far away, but only 300m high, and with Y20 tanker.

And J20 have been deployed there before.


No need to deploly in frontline. Aksai Chin is governed by Hotan city. And Hotan belongs to Xinjiang.

One India blogger been there months ago.

 

[mokoman]

This is G219 .. seem pretty similar to what we have barring road reflectors and markings
View attachment 235715

wasnt talking about the road , but how the hill/mountain is cut . saw comments on AP , old BRO roads being build poorly . even compared to state build roads . no expert on road construction - soo no idea how true/false it is .

anyways we r getting better .

kinda interesting that even something simple like a road need tech/know how

Indigenous technology used in constructing roads near China border in Arunachal

The Border Roads Organisation (BRO) has used an indigenous road construction technology, 'Rejupave' to construct two vital stretches in high-altitude conditions near the India-China border in Arunachal Pradesh.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[AnantS]

Mostly won't, it will be in Hotan airport not far away, but only 300m high, and with Y20 tanker.

No need to deploly in frontline. Aksai Chin is governed by Hotan city.

One India blogger been there months ago.

Thats why I said. TAR in coming years shall be under heavy surveillance from India as you deploy J20s. Deploying HPR's in Indo China borders from west to east is exactly what roadmap they are working on. Not just ground, air(tethered or untethered) but also space based assets shall be employed in coming days for varied purposes.

 

[Jimih]

Chinese being clobbered

 

[AnantS]

wasnt talking about the road , but how the hill/mountain is cut . saw comments on AP , old BRO roads being build poorly . even compared to state build roads . no expert on road construction - soo no idea how true/false it is .

anyways we r getting better .

kinda interesting that even something simple like a road need tech/know how

Indigenous technology used in constructing roads near China border in Arunachal

The Border Roads Organisation (BRO) has used an indigenous road construction technology, 'Rejupave' to construct two vital stretches in high-altitude conditions near the India-China border in Arunachal Pradesh.

www.indiatoday.in

I have seen videos esp by foreign moto vloggers. They were quite impressed by road works on extreme heights done by BRO. Given the kind of mountains we have south and north of Tibet. Vagaries of Nature can at any moment play spoilt sport to any road whether its on side of mountain/valley or laid over viaducts. Road building in Himalayan Mountains isnt once in a decade project but its a yearly commitment.

Much of Arunachal is getting road for first time. Mountain Road building layering happens over time. Even in Himachal/Uttarakhand you can see that. BRO's first priority is to get Military grade road ready at speed. Then later they shall be fortified even more as per local/economical needs.

Arunachal gets highest allocation of funds for road projects at Rs 44,000 cr

Guwahati: Arunachal Pradesh has bagged the lion’s share of road project funds in the northeast with Rs 44,000 crore. Taking to Twitter, Arunachal

www.eastmojo.com

 

[rockdog]

Thats why I said. TAR in coming years shall be under heavy surveillance from India as you deploy J20s. Deploying HPR's in Indo China borders from west to east is exactly what roadmap they are working on. Not just ground, air(tethered or untethered) but also space based assets shall be employed in coming days for varied purposes.

From my POV, what changing the balance on Tibetan borders sky, are not only J20 but also the Y20 tanks.

J20 + powered by WS15 made it starting have supersonic cruise capability.

It makes IAF very hard to detect J20 if they only keeping eye on frontline airbases.

 

[rockdog]

Thats why I said. TAR in coming years shall be under heavy surveillance from India as you deploy J20s. Deploying HPR's in Indo China borders from west to east is exactly what roadmap they are working on. Not just ground, air(tethered or untethered) but also space based assets shall be employed in coming days for varied purposes.

We simulated lots of air combats between PLAAF and IAF.

In the war game simulation by our community, most J20 took off from 1000km, like Golmud or Chengdu bases, and refuelled by Y20 tank.

Made IAF very hard to detect, since the Tibetan borders were too long.

This is simulation happened in sky of Karachi.

And this is simulation in A&Nicobar areas. J20 were also backed by Y20 tank.

 

[Azaad]

Lots of ur info were incorrect.

There is a thread from day 1 when J20 came out, don't play as smart arse like u know everything.

J20 Stealth Fighter

defenceforumindia.com

I came here just update the no. of J20 in Tibet region will massively increase in following yrs.

Which of my information is incorrect wumao ? List them along with your refutations .

You mean if you didn't update the number of J-20s our here , we wouldn't have found out ? This isn't Zhongguo , you know . No firewalls here . No VPNs required to access international sites.

 

[Azaad]

u don't have enough knowledge about the J20, even claimes that ws10 was from AL31...

View attachment 235718

And didn't know the latest engine is new type named ws15...

View attachment 235719

Let me recalled u claimed Tibet railway was powered by HSR..

View attachment 235720

Plz, @Azaad for contributing good contents in this thread, stop making false information. Thank you.

Your entire series of WS TFs are derived from the AL-31 F family of Russian TFs. If you aren't aware of it , read up more.

As far as your HSR or ANY OTHER Railway network in Tibet is concerned , a few air strikes at the right places is enough to knock the entire system off given the remoteness of the place & the fact that it is built over permafrost. You think it can be repaired easily. Now which part of this didn't you understand ?

 

[AnantS]

From my POV, what changing the balance on Tibetan borders sky, are not only J20 but also the Y20 tanks.

J20 + powered by WS15 made it starting have supersonic cruise capability.

View attachment 235731

View attachment 235730


It makes IAF very hard to detect J20 if they only keeping eye on frontline airbases.

Why J20 is going to dive bomb from space? Mountains make it harder for defender to detect, and for invader to evade. Unless you envisage J20 to follow terrain hugging mode for attack. Even that would make it more exposed. Even your army practices same. J20's would be at best employed in air defense and air escort role. Their J20's stealth shall be posing challenge to ingressing IAF into TAR

 

[Azaad]

We simulated lots of air combats between PLAAF and IAF.

In the war game simulation by our community, most J20 took off from 1000km, like Golmud or Chengdu bases, and refuelled by Y20 tank.

Made IAF very hard to detect, since the Tibetan borders were too long.

View attachment 235734

This is simulation happened in sky of Karachi.

View attachment 235735


And this is simulation in A&Nicobar areas. J20 were also backed by Y20 tank.

View attachment 235736

First of all you're an idiot. You don't know jack about Military Tactics. The J-20s aren't a strike platform but an air superiority FA. PLAAF aren't going to deploy the J-20 or any other FA in their inventory before they've sufficiently sanitised the air space .

So how does it do it ? That's where the PLARF comes into play along with your Cyberspace teams to blow up all front line air force & army bases & jam communications online & offline.

It's only then that the PLAAF comes into action. Another point . Apart from India with its ground based & air borne radar & satellite network , you're up against the most powerful array of space based satellite network in the form of the US & their allies.

You think even if India can't track the J-20 & the Y-20 in the various bases adjoining Tibet , the US can't do so ? And anything the US tracks will immediately be relayed to India .

 

[rockdog]

First of all you're an idiot. You don't know jack about Military Tactics. The J-20s aren't a strike platform but an air superiority FA.

Plz don't send misinformation here.

The J-20 welcomes exclusive weapons. A dozen can be loaded in the bomb bay at a time. The American F22 is still not equipped with it.

https://min.news/en/military/f66f55883ad6d95d623a47227773584a.html

 

[Azaad]

The J-20 welcomes exclusive weapons. A dozen can be loaded in the bomb bay at a time. The American F22 is still not equipped with it.

https://min.news/en/military/f66f55883ad6d95d623a47227773584a.html

View attachment 235737

View attachment 235738

Congratulations ! And if the J-20 is equipped with this kind of game changing weapon , do you think the US would be scratching its arse ?

 

[jai jaganath]

The J-20 welcomes exclusive weapons. A dozen can be loaded in the bomb bay at a time. The American F22 is still not equipped with it.

https://min.news/en/military/f66f55883ad6d95d623a47227773584a.html

View attachment 235737

View attachment 235738

These are role specific aircrafts
F-22 is completely an air superiority aircraft and that's the role of it
Similarly for J-20
It's designed for air superiority role although it can perform ground operations but that doesn't satisfy it's mandate thus risking it's airframe and revealing it's true capabilities