India-China Border conflict

jai jaganath

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Going by your own logic

China (your sugar daddy) is screwed !


Chinese Air Force is toast ! Better than anything China has !


Chinese Submarines are dead ! Better than anything China has !


Also, Tibetian SFF will kick the ass of 4ft. yellow Chinese midgets. Chinese soldiers will run away and cry !
View attachment 217304
First pic u posted is as horrible as it must be
Be it bpj or holo in sig or highcuts with no comms
36 is nothing in front of hundreds of j-10c or j-20
What sff has in special that it can overwhelmingly defeat Chinese they also have horrible weapons, kits, equipments
Pls do compare avg heights of India and China
 

jai jaganath

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Ah, here come Gucci gear experts. Tell your phaggot Chinese army to dress less feminine and keep a beard at least if they are men (not sure about this one).



What's so tactically good about this? The only thing different is Comm. system whereas the IA soldier has a better rifle, unlike that airsoft SMG :bplease:
Not expected from u boss
Are u gonna bet on same logic as porkies
 

Kumaoni

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Ah, here come Gucci gear experts. Tell your phaggot Chinese army to dress less feminine and keep a beard at least if they are men (not sure about this one).



What's so tactically good about this? The only thing different is Comm. system whereas the IA soldier has a better rifle, unlike that airsoft SMG :bplease:
No man, we gucci gear experts only worship the supreme seals who do “thousands of yearly ops” and eleiminate HVTs daily like this
DE77378A-23D3-43ED-AC2C-BBF8D19D1EA3.png
 

mist_consecutive

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First pic u posted is as horrible as it must be
Be it bpj or holo in sig or highcuts with no comms
36 is nothing in front of hundreds of j-10c or j-20
What sff has in special that it can overwhelmingly defeat Chinese they also have horrible weapons, kits, equipments
Pls do compare avg heights of India and China
Why not you first compare the specs of the Chinese soldier and equipment ? Why should I have to give the burden of proof ?

First you show me that Chinese soldier is better battle-ready (not just decorated with equipment) than IA soldier.
Show me J-10C or J-20 is better than Rafale.
Show me Chinese soldiers are better for high-altitude warfare than SFF.
 

mist_consecutive

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Not expected from u boss
Are u gonna bet on same logic as porkies
No, I am betting on the same logic as you & @Kumaoni. You two brain-dead bots sound exactly like what I wrote.

No man, we gucci gear experts only worship the supreme seals who do “thousands of yearly ops” and eleiminate HVTs daily like this View attachment 217307
No, you Gucci gear experts worship the mighty 10-foot tall Chinaman who has never participated in any battle, let alone counter-insurgency guerrilla-type battle, and get their asses handed over when a real opponent comes -


But yes, China stronk!

If you put a mane on a donkey, it doesn't automatically become a lion.
 

jai jaganath

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Why not you first compare the specs of the Chinese soldier and equipment ? Why should I have to give the burden of proof ?

First you show me that Chinese soldier is better battle-ready (not just decorated with equipment) than IA soldier.
Show me J-10C or J-20 is better than Rafale.
Show me Chinese soldiers are better for high-altitude warfare than SFF.
See first point that guy posted the wrong image and with wrong context and don't wanna defend that cause
Coming Chinese they have been able standardize proper bpj and mordern helmets whereas we are still using 1974 Fibre glass helmets we still use the insas rifle and need not explain how good it is only handful have hot sigs
Moreover their true fighting troops have better bpj and even integrated sdr and comms earlier than us u call those videos propaganda false blah blah whatever u want
Even during clashes they were equipped with riot fighting ppe
Moreover they are in learning process too yes currently they use bullpup rifles in mass but still they have started inducting reducing their nos and u will see it's impact in our borders too
I was clearly stating numerical superiority they have 100s of j-10c or j-20 and 36 rifles can never be sufficient for it and even their j-16 or mordern j-11 are in huge and more advanced than Su-30MKI
I don't understand obsession with sff it's not even sof only benefit is its filled with locals who are well accustomed to environment but in other things similar to infantry or atmost airborne units
Pls let's not bring mountain warfare here bcoz that argument has been done for years now
 

jai jaganath

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No, I am betting on the same logic as you & @Kumaoni. You two brain-dead bots sound exactly like what I wrote.



No, you Gucci gear experts worship the mighty 10-foot tall Chinaman who has never participated in any battle, let alone counter-insurgency guerrilla-type battle, and get their asses handed over when a real opponent comes -


But yes, China stronk!

If you put a mane on a donkey, it doesn't automatically become a lion.
If so then welcome, but to be practical ur post very different to mine here
I am here showing that they are developing their capabilities and efficiency in battle
Now u bring what war have they fought but that's completely different to learning
Even we haven't fought proper war post 1971
And comon it's Sunday ought to happen
 

another_armchair

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First pic u posted is as horrible as it must be
Be it bpj or holo in sig or highcuts with no comms
36 is nothing in front of hundreds of j-10c or j-20
What sff has in special that it can overwhelmingly defeat Chinese they also have horrible weapons, kits, equipments
Pls do compare avg heights of India and China
Shall we revisit the morning of Feb 27, 2019 and go into the number of planes IAF fielded against PAF and was PAF able to achieve its mission objective(s) or did IAF successfully manage to ward off the PAF attack?
 

MikeTheInfantryman

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Great, I feel like I set off a powder keg few days ago, now everything's spicy so I might as well jump in


On a strategic level, we're purely a defensive force, we're not really postured for an attack. So no Idea why you would think the Rafales are going to be alone


In a conflict, The Rafales are supported by SAMs and a layered AA cover. The average PLAAF pilot is being hurriedly pushed to combat sorties before having a good amount of flight hours in the cockpit. The result is the interceptions they make with USN aircrafts in SCS. Not really professional in terms of interception. That shows the training isn't really upto par. Even with them having recruited some Western pilots, not everything's going to be leaked for the PLA. So stop using that brain-dead example already lol


Since we're in the infantry thread, let's go into that. Only PLA Marine Corps, PLA airborne, SOF and Amphibious units are receiving high cut helmets. And most lack earpros because it's being given to SOF and Airborne troops. Not everyone in PLA has earpros, yet.


What PLA has right now is good amount of body armour and new ACH-ish helmets with digital NVGs. It's going to put us at a disadvantage, but not upto the levels that of the fight between the muj and US. All section leaders and 2IC have NVGs, and it goes up the chain to the platoon commander. So in a sense a platoon has night fighting capabilities, it's just that not everyone has the benefit of seeing what's out there. And since the PLA have 2nd gen NVGs, it's not really as good as you might think it is, it works but not good. You can always circumvent older NVGs. Digital NVGs also lag a bit, so there's that.

What we lack is good body armour and NVGs. That's it. Yeah there's no IFAK for us either, but I haven't seen any of the Chinese grunts running any IFAK. So we're even in that. We have a fairly good helmet nowadays (unless you want to cope on the fact that some units still use fiberglass helmets. For the sake of God, to standardize something takes time in any army, especially ours, at least most of the units have the new helmets in place.). SiGs are slowly getting some optics and foregrips. The only thing that's not moving forward is the body armour, which sucks but optimism still exists. PCs might come some day, who the fuck knows. And at the very least, some units are locally procuring plate carriers for the troops. It's just not standardized.


Does PLA have PEQ-15s? No. Do they have ENVGs/ Gen 3+ NVGs? No. I don't get how they're "generations" ahead of us when they only have a pretty better gear but still not something out of a HALO game or a Call of Duty Advanced Warfare stuff. Also some of the gear are privately purchased in some PLA pics, like this


brdeixjycr1b1.png


The high cut is privately purchased, they have a good scope and a foregrip, no gucci shit as suppressors, PEQ-15s, or something like the new XM157 Optics, which are pretty advanced, you can select multiple targets with that scope. The big pouch is supposedly carrying water (no IFAK) and there's no battlebelt with extra stuff, which is only kind of standard in SOF and Airborne units. No sidearm or anything like that.



Quit crying over something that can be achieved in the near future. It's not as if crying all over the internet is going to change much. Yeah we're at some disadvantage, that doesn't mean we're just too shit that we can't do anything against PLA. Hopefully there will be a time when the things we lack will come soon enough. Saying we're fucked is just showing you're obsessed on criticizing the army on everything and everything lmao. Take a chill pill
 

Tactical Doge

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Great, I feel like I set off a powder keg few days ago, now everything's spicy so I might as well jump in


On a strategic level, we're purely a defensive force, we're not really postured for an attack. So no Idea why you would think the Rafales are going to be alone


In a conflict, The Rafales are supported by SAMs and a layered AA cover. The average PLAAF pilot is being hurriedly pushed to combat sorties before having a good amount of flight hours in the cockpit. The result is the interceptions they make with USN aircrafts in SCS. Not really professional in terms of interception. That shows the training isn't really upto par. Even with them having recruited some Western pilots, not everything's going to be leaked for the PLA. So stop using that brain-dead example already lol


Since we're in the infantry thread, let's go into that. Only PLA Marine Corps, PLA airborne, SOF and Amphibious units are receiving high cut helmets. And most lack earpros because it's being given to SOF and Airborne troops. Not everyone in PLA has earpros, yet.


What PLA has right now is good amount of body armour and new ACH-ish helmets with digital NVGs. It's going to put us at a disadvantage, but not upto the levels that of the fight between the muj and US. All section leaders and 2IC have NVGs, and it goes up the chain to the platoon commander. So in a sense a platoon has night fighting capabilities, it's just that not everyone has the benefit of seeing what's out there. And since the PLA have 2nd gen NVGs, it's not really as good as you might think it is, it works but not good. You can always circumvent older NVGs. Digital NVGs also lag a bit, so there's that.

What we lack is good body armour and NVGs. That's it. Yeah there's no IFAK for us either, but I haven't seen any of the Chinese grunts running any IFAK. So we're even in that. We have a fairly good helmet nowadays (unless you want to cope on the fact that some units still use fiberglass helmets. For the sake of God, to standardize something takes time in any army, especially ours, at least most of the units have the new helmets in place.). SiGs are slowly getting some optics and foregrips. The only thing that's not moving forward is the body armour, which sucks but optimism still exists. PCs might come some day, who the fuck knows. And at the very least, some units are locally procuring plate carriers for the troops. It's just not standardized.


Does PLA have PEQ-15s? No. Do they have ENVGs/ Gen 3+ NVGs? No. I don't get how they're "generations" ahead of us when they only have a pretty better gear but still not something out of a HALO game or a Call of Duty Advanced Warfare stuff. Also some of the gear are privately purchased in some PLA pics, like this


View attachment 217313

The high cut is privately purchased, they have a good scope and a foregrip, no gucci shit as suppressors, PEQ-15s, or something like the new XM157 Optics, which are pretty advanced, you can select multiple targets with that scope. The big pouch is supposedly carrying water (no IFAK) and there's no battlebelt with extra stuff, which is only kind of standard in SOF and Airborne units. No sidearm or anything like that.



Quit crying over something that can be achieved in the near future. It's not as if crying all over the internet is going to change much. Yeah we're at some disadvantage, that doesn't mean we're just too shit that we can't do anything against PLA. Hopefully there will be a time when the things we lack will come soon enough. Saying we're fucked is just showing you're obsessed on criticizing the army on everything and everything lmao. Take a chill pill
Everything we need to outclass the average chinki soldier by a large margin, a ridiculously large margin is already available locally, maybe barring the primary weapon, at arguably much lesser cost than it would be available anywhere else in the world

Why have Gen 3 phosphorus tube when you can have IR-fused NVGs LoL
 

MikeTheInfantryman

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Everything we need to outclass the average chinki soldier by a large margin, a ridiculously large margin is already available locally, maybe barring the primary weapon, at arguably much lesser cost than it would be available anywhere else in the world

Why have Gen 3 phosphorus tube when you can have IR-fused NVGs LoL
IR fused NVGs are nowhere near as good as ENVGs, it's a cheap option but it's definitely not good for combat use.
 

jai jaganath

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Shall we revisit the morning of Feb 27, 2019 and go into the number of planes IAF fielded against PAF and was PAF able to achieve its mission objective(s) or did IAF successfully manage to ward off the PAF attack?
U can't compare the situations coz both are way different that was not in scenario of full blown war were all factors infrastructure coming into the game
In a full blown war numerical strength matters no matter how u fight
 

jai jaganath

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Great, I feel like I set off a powder keg few days ago, now everything's spicy so I might as well jump in


On a strategic level, we're purely a defensive force, we're not really postured for an attack. So no Idea why you would think the Rafales are going to be alone


In a conflict, The Rafales are supported by SAMs and a layered AA cover. The average PLAAF pilot is being hurriedly pushed to combat sorties before having a good amount of flight hours in the cockpit. The result is the interceptions they make with USN aircrafts in SCS. Not really professional in terms of interception. That shows the training isn't really upto par. Even with them having recruited some Western pilots, not everything's going to be leaked for the PLA. So stop using that brain-dead example already lol


Since we're in the infantry thread, let's go into that. Only PLA Marine Corps, PLA airborne, SOF and Amphibious units are receiving high cut helmets. And most lack earpros because it's being given to SOF and Airborne troops. Not everyone in PLA has earpros, yet.


What PLA has right now is good amount of body armour and new ACH-ish helmets with digital NVGs. It's going to put us at a disadvantage, but not upto the levels that of the fight between the muj and US. All section leaders and 2IC have NVGs, and it goes up the chain to the platoon commander. So in a sense a platoon has night fighting capabilities, it's just that not everyone has the benefit of seeing what's out there. And since the PLA have 2nd gen NVGs, it's not really as good as you might think it is, it works but not good. You can always circumvent older NVGs. Digital NVGs also lag a bit, so there's that.

What we lack is good body armour and NVGs. That's it. Yeah there's no IFAK for us either, but I haven't seen any of the Chinese grunts running any IFAK. So we're even in that. We have a fairly good helmet nowadays (unless you want to cope on the fact that some units still use fiberglass helmets. For the sake of God, to standardize something takes time in any army, especially ours, at least most of the units have the new helmets in place.). SiGs are slowly getting some optics and foregrips. The only thing that's not moving forward is the body armour, which sucks but optimism still exists. PCs might come some day, who the fuck knows. And at the very least, some units are locally procuring plate carriers for the troops. It's just not standardized.


Does PLA have PEQ-15s? No. Do they have ENVGs/ Gen 3+ NVGs? No. I don't get how they're "generations" ahead of us when they only have a pretty better gear but still not something out of a HALO game or a Call of Duty Advanced Warfare stuff. Also some of the gear are privately purchased in some PLA pics, like this


View attachment 217313

The high cut is privately purchased, they have a good scope and a foregrip, no gucci shit as suppressors, PEQ-15s, or something like the new XM157 Optics, which are pretty advanced, you can select multiple targets with that scope. The big pouch is supposedly carrying water (no IFAK) and there's no battlebelt with extra stuff, which is only kind of standard in SOF and Airborne units. No sidearm or anything like that.



Quit crying over something that can be achieved in the near future. It's not as if crying all over the internet is going to change much. Yeah we're at some disadvantage, that doesn't mean we're just too shit that we can't do anything against PLA. Hopefully there will be a time when the things we lack will come soon enough. Saying we're fucked is just showing you're obsessed on criticizing the army on everything and everything lmao. Take a chill pill
As u took things to night fighting level basically we don't possess a proper night fighting capability for our sf forget normal infantry bharing thermal sights which we know doesn't give any night capability
All we have monotubes that too for para sf on other hand their infantry mostly seen using monotubes but SOF using dual tube 2 gen nvg
Point being these aren't small things which can be solved during conflict bcoz these things need to get inculcated into training and developing tactics and sop based on that u can't just procure and use them during war
Majority of our troops have never experienced it
Their majority of the troops have ach type helmets but in our case it's fibre glass ones they aren't in few units but they make up the majority
Coming to body armour even they use bpj until now but look at their propaganda videos and that will be present in majority in future on other hand God save that guy fighting using smpp kits
Point being they standardize things unlike us where even standard camo is different for rr fighting in valley for years
Coming to optics on sig putting up holo or red dot sights can never do justice, never
But recently they gave orders to one of the psu to make 13000 sights of gone generation and I don't see things getting better
Proper soldier equipments or ppe can't be given to a soldier during war it will only make him more vulnerable coz lack of acclimatization with particular systems that guy should experience those during training those taking full advantage of the system and that couldn't be thought in few hours
And to add over the advanced laser designator like peq-15 or dbal are limited to rr and para sf not to infantry similar to them
 

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Bruh what I've never seen ENVGs in our SOF.
Read within the context of my post
I never said we use these

Everything we need to outclass the average chinki soldier by a large margin, a ridiculously large margin is already available locally, maybe barring the primary weapon, at arguably much lesser cost than it would be available anywhere else in the world

Why have Gen 3 phosphorus tube when you can have IR-fused NVGs LoL
Screenshot_20230806-174730~2.png
 

MikeTheInfantryman

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As u took things to night fighting level basically we don't possess a proper night fighting capability for our sf forget normal infantry bharing thermal sights which we know doesn't give any night capability
All we have monotubes that too for para sf on other hand their infantry mostly seen using monotubes but SOF using dual tube 2 gen nvg
Point being these aren't small things which can be solved during conflict bcoz these things need to get inculcated into training and developing tactics and sop based on that u can't just procure and use them during war
Majority of our troops have never experienced it
Their majority of the troops have ach type helmets but in our case it's fibre glass ones they aren't in few units but they make up the majority
Coming to body armour even they use bpj until now but look at their propaganda videos and that will be present in majority in future on other hand God save that guy fighting using smpp kits
Point being they standardize things unlike us where even standard camo is different for rr fighting in valley for years
Coming to optics on sig putting up holo or red dot sights can never do justice, never
But recently they gave orders to one of the psu to make 13000 sights of gone generation and I don't see things getting better
Proper soldier equipments or ppe can't be given to a soldier during war it will only make him more vulnerable coz lack of acclimatization with particular systems that guy should experience those during training those taking full advantage of the system and that couldn't be thought in few hours
And to add over the advanced laser designator like peq-15 or dbal are limited to rr and para sf not to infantry similar to them
Thermal sights can act as single tube NVDs, which I've seen some of the grunts using it as that. It's basically almost the same as the PLA NVG, which is also a single tube NVG.

Like I said, in a standard Infantry platoon, platoon commander and section leaders have NVGs and some grunts in a section get thermal sights. Probably a jugaad stuff but some of these sights, like I said before, are used as NVGs. So yeah night fighting capability exists my guy. It's just that not everyone gets the benefit of night vision. Limited NVGs across an Infantry Company.


I'm not talking about their SOF, because some of the dual tube NVGs are privately purchased by some of their troops, although the dual tube NVGs are slowly getting standardized. Slowly, so it's going to take time.


Red dot sights in a battle rifle is indeed weird, but with a magnifier, it's pretty manageable. An acog or sight that's something like that is the perfect fit for a rifle like the SiG, but some sight is better than just iron sights.


Equipment does not affect training to the extent that the soldier will be helpless when they get new gear. SOPs and tactics exist already for the units for night fighting with the limited NVG arsenal. Since section leaders and platoon commanders already have NVGs, the rest of the section getting an NVG isn't going to change the tactics that much, except making it bit better and the section more capable.



Most Ukrainians shouldn't be able to use the new plate carriers and battle belts since lots of them are conscripts and they only recently modernised thejr gear right before the war. So again tactics get only better with new equipment with few tweaks, not like tactics change completely because you get new equipment.
 

MikeTheInfantryman

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Read within the context of my post
I never said we use these


View attachment 217321
I mean these are just bulkier than the Chinese NVGs but again they're still digital NVGs, not really good against conventional NVGs but yeah if this is distributed en masse, we catch up to the PLA. Since they're also using the same kind of NVGs, we get even in that aspect tbh.


Also, I think ENVGs in this context mean different because the original ENVG is the one I just posted with a full on HUD and new kind of night vision
 

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I mean these are just bulkier than the Chinese NVGs but again they're still digital NVGs, not really good against conventional NVGs but yeah if this is distributed en masse, we catch up to the PLA. Since they're also using the same kind of NVGs, we get even in that aspect tbh.


Also, I think ENVGs in this context mean different because the original ENVG is the one I just posted with a full on HUD and new kind of night vision
Those are miles ahead of the Chinki standard issue Digital NVGs
1691324774198.png


They have some different NVGs but almost all of them are Chinese versions of western ones

They even had a GPNVG18 of their own


Kek I've even seen some pics with Chinkis using PVS-7s
 

MikeTheInfantryman

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Those are miles ahead of the Chinki standard issue Digital NVGs
View attachment 217322

They have some different NVGs but almost all of them are Chinese versions of western ones

They even had a GPNVG18 of their own


Kek I've even seen some pics with Chinkis using PVS-7s
Yeah I mean they are better, but that's only if they exist for us. They don't right now, although the Chinese one looks really really cheap, like it's almost a toy.

We still haven't adopted it as standard issue so it's back to square one
 
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