India-China Border conflict

[Kumaoni]

We are a shameless people

 

[jai jaganath]

Good question. Nothing. In pangong what they did is basically intrude into Indian patrolled territory. Same with Galwan. The territory we “lost” (the attacked us by surprise) was what we patrolled. The bastards, with their 15:1 numerical superiority (being serious) couldn’t even attack a single Indian military camp.

Losing word would be inappropriate but yeah temporary buffer for both sides basically even their patrolling is restricted to the particular place too

 

[jai jaganath]

these Indian vloggers have no sense of shame. Just saw a videos few day back where a lady chinese vlogger was making fun of us and saying that we won't be able to match them.

Link ?

 

[jai jaganath]

It was Gen BC Joshi who created the Rashtriya Rifles.

So IA was to be involved in COIN ops as it was deemed necessary during that period.

But right now necessity is to remove CI roles from army and hand it over to central forces
But slowly

 

[jai jaganath]

China's Galwan gamble was a strategic and geopolitical miscalculation, it did not deliver the desirable outcome.

India had virtually forgotten about the QUAD. Chinese action set India's tilt towards the US and vice-versa in motion. Russia-Ukraine war further complicated the Chinese position.

Other countries should have gathered intel and carried out their own assessment. The international reactions suggest that the final assessment is favorable towards India, and India's hard power has gained greater recognition. The conflict established India as a credible bulwark against the bully China.

Indian youth had no true memory of any India-China conflict that caused death to our soldiers. Galwan changed that. Galwan has made sure that the current and the next generation will treat China as an enemy. China will not be trusted for the next 30 years. No matter which government comes to power in future, it will not take a favorable view towards China.

Woh sab thik hai
But it's time for military to get ready for it and shed their incompetency and improve their intent and short comings
But till now things aren't moving in that direction it seems baring few exceptions

 

[Jimih]

But right now necessity is to remove CI roles from army and hand it over to central forces
But slowly

It's already happening as we speak mate.

Process is slow btw.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Our side claim 40 kills and army also gave traction to these claims. Now, suddenly videos pop up from the Chinki side showing your POWs and dead bodies of soldier stacked one upon another. Obviously, you would like to know some answers from your army. It's very obvious that the enemy is provking Army deliberately. Yet, theyare still quite and not answering them. Why are you so passive ? Afterall, those guys fought for the nation ? Chinki fuckers held an exhibition showcasing equipments/photos they got from the captured/dead soldiers of ours. Even after all of this, of you say that we have fallen for Chinki propaganda then my friend please ask Army to debunk them. I don't want many videos/photos. I just want a video/photo where there is a PLA soldier KIA and that person isn't one of those who were announced. Just a single photo/video to soothe my mind.

• Indian media, especially private media houses are massive idiots. Is the 40-odd kill claim released by Army? Nope, what official confirmation we have is, Lt. Gen. Joshi talking about our o/p above Galwan hills recording 60+ casualties being airlifted by the Chinese. From that, he makes an educated guess that around 30-35 Chinese might have perished. We did not verify them to be "dead".
  
  
• Now, regarding the Chinese releasing pics, they were not "exhibitied", or released "officially", or even surfaced on China's official media. They were random Weibo leaks (probably intentional), which surfaced a bit on Indian Twitter. GoI chose not to respond. I do not support this peaceful attitude, but I can understand their stance.
  
  
• For photos/videos, I agree with you, I am with you. I too, want any shred of evidence. But I can understand the lack of it, or the decision to not divulge it. See, the clear reason for the Chinese releasing our PoW pics was to instigate/provoke us to do the same. Indian Army chose not to fall for the provocation, we chose to operate differently than the Chinese.

Now, coming to a tweet by shiv, who is claiming that this generation "thinks we know more than army" then my friend let me tell you, WE DON'T. This generation only wants Armed Forces to be accountable. Don't you think IAF should be questioned by us for the debacle post Balakot ? Or the Army who keep loosing soldiers in these combing operation in jungle ? Or them being caught sleeping by the Chinki during May-June 2020 ?

May I ask why you think Armed Forces is not accountable, do not ask for accountability, or do not investigate their own lapses?

Armed forces are opaque (justifiably) to the outside civilian world, but that doesn't mean they are running a criminal racket with no accountability, no matter how it may seem from the outside.

Balakot Strike Blunder (Friendly fire) -> Investigated, court marshaled, and punished (dishonorably discharged).
Balakot short-comings (IFF/BVR/Comms. etc.) -> All fixed.

Accidental BrahMos Launch -> Investigated, court marshaled, and punished (dishonorably discharged).

Apart from this, we don't hear everything that happens in Armed Forces.

 

[Crazywithmath]

these Indian vloggers have no sense of shame. Just saw a videos few day back where a lady chinese vlogger was making fun of us and saying that we won't be able to match them.

Time to bring out this masterpiece.
Credit @FalconSlayers

 

[mist_consecutive]

That's not how things work mate. You aren't on that post to make "balanced" claims.
He completed his tenure and in his tenure "we are ready for 2 front war" and after his tenure "we can't win 2 front war".
If you have kept mum during your time as general, then please keep mum after retirement as well.
Gen VK Singh is a COAS I admire the most. He came and he tried to change things. Although, it didn't work out but yes he gave his "best".

Army generals pre and post retirement :
View attachment 217180]
View attachment 217181

How are you even ready if you can't win the war ?

For all the Randi Rona about the MM Naravane's remark -

People are taking his statement too literally and out of context, spinning their own theories and breaking their bangles.

First, his statement was in reinforcement for his topic of discussion - The importance of diplomacy over war, especially in the context of China & Pakistan.

But still, let's nitpick his statement a bit. He said - No one who fought 2-front war has ever won.

• What he means is fighting a 2-front war and winning on both fronts has not been achieved/observed till now. NOT that we will lose a 2-front war, or that we are unprepared for a 2-front war.
  
  
• If you guys has not been reading, our strategy for 2.5-front war plan has been to defeat Pakistan, and block/stalemate China on the Himalayas. In essence, we are offensive with Pakistan, and defensive with China.
  

---------------------------------------------------------------------

See, RR is an attitude few of you fancy. Learn to accept shortcomings, both of India as well as your own life, and forgive them. Look forward, and instead of crying, try to fix them.

Yes, we are all aware our armed forces are not prepared, our politicians are corrupt, and our industrial capacity is low, I know. But on the plus side, they all are improving, slowly, but surely. Choose to take the white pill.

 

[Tactical Doge]

See, the clear reason for the Chinese releasing our PoW pics was to instigate/provoke us to do the same. Indian Army chose not to fall for the provocation, we chose to operate differently than the Chinese.

I'm sorry but I'm not able to make sense of this

> Chinese released the pics to provoke us to do the same

And you say you can understand the top brass' decision to not divulge anything and fall into doing what the Chinese want us to do i.e release the pics, (or any shred of evidence for that matter)

So it is the chinki strategy to push us into releasing pics? So let's assume that we did, then what's their endgame?

 

[mokoman]

my humble contribution to todays randi rona

china building road to area with deep historical links to Tibet/buddhism , its like independence day discount Tawang. no roads on our side



dont forget to go

Spoiler

plenty of road construction is happening on our side as well . we finally woke up after 2020 .

still lot a catching up to do with the chinese

 

[mist_consecutive]

I'm sorry but I'm not able to make sense of this

> Chinese released the pics to provoke us to do the same

And you say you can understand the top brass' decision to not divulge anything and fall into doing what the Chinese want us to do i.e release the pics, (or any shred of evidence for that matter)

So it is the chinki strategy to push us into releasing pics? So let's assume that we did, then what's their endgame?

Good question to ask.

Okay, so let's look at the events chronologically with possible outcomes, also let's assume leaking gory pics/videos was intentional.

-> China releases gruesome pics of our captured soldiers, some grievously injured, some possibly dead.
Reason: Simple, to provoke, demean, and mock our army.

Possible reactions from our side & their implications:

• We deny them to be real: The worst possible reaction. This will be followed up by more pictures/videos, and left-wing media houses roped in to propagate these pictures and show govt & the army in a bad light. Chinese might have calculated this to be an unlikely scenario.
  
  
• We react/get angry, GoI/Army officially responds, take this to an international court for war crimes, etc.: Just increases the visibility. Will be quickly picked up by global media houses, and we will be mocked globally. Chinese might have calculated this as a possible reaction since GoI (especially MEA) is always in RR/blame mode.
  
  
• We counter them by releasing pictures of their soldiers: China can easily suppress these pictures due to their moderation of the internet and firewall, and it will have minimal impact on China.
  
  However, this will give China official credibility to publish & push even more gruesome pictures/confessions/torture videos through their national media as well as their spokespersons (leftist media houses worldwide). This would definitely have dented the image of GoI and the Army a fair bit. We would have been a laughingstock worldwide.
  Chinese might have calculated this as the most probable reaction of GoI since being a nationalistic right-wing govt, we will try to uphold the image of the army by counter-releasing pictures.
  
  
• We completely ignore it and suppress it from reaching as many people as possible.: Pictures and videos die down before creating a national roar, few enlightened twitter & social media users get exposed but they don't propagate it due to natural reasons. The matter dies down within a few months.
  Chinese definitely did not expect this. Do you know why? Because since 2020, each year they kept on releasing a bit-more gruesome, detailed, and gory videos. Last year (IIRC) they released the almost full video, with added close-in of the faces of soldiers PoW & killed.
  They were trying to invoke a response every time they dialed in the detail & gore. They got none.

Invalid arguments I hear often - We didn't release pics because don't have any

This line is not only laughable but shows the diminished brain capacity of the primate trying to argue this case.
Why? Simple, every soldier has a smartphone with them. We saw a lot of influx of pre-Galwan videos of face-offs. In fact, army patrols (both sides) officially take cameras & video recorders to capture the entire encounter since 2012.

Even apart from that, we had captured 2 X Chinese soldiers just getting lost in the mountains and were sent back after a medical checkup. Where is their video? What about the Tawang clash in 2022 where we thrashed the Chinese with sharp weapons? Even USA acknowledged this clash.

Why did all the videos from LAC suddenly vanish after the 2020 clash? Its intentional.

We have videos. We have pictures. We are choosing not to release them.

 

[Tactical Doge]

• We counter them by releasing pictures of their soldiers: China can easily suppress these pictures due to their moderation of the internet and firewall, and it will have minimal impact on China.
  
  However, this will give China official credibility to publish & push even more gruesome pictures/confessions/torture videos through their national media as well as their spokespersons (leftist media houses worldwide). This would definitely have dented the image of GoI and the Army a fair bit. We would have been a laughingstock worldwide.
  Chinese might have calculated this as the most probable reaction of GoI since being a nationalistic right-wing govt, we will try to uphold the image of the army by counter-releasing pictures.
  

Let's say they indeed end up publishing more and more gruesome pics
(Of a conflict which, in this hypothetical scenario Indian public has seen the hypothetical images released by GoI, and knows we have given them a bloody knows with proof to back it up)

Mind you they do it through official channels, your words

Wouldn't this only help our cause internationally?
Rather than causing an upheavel and face loss, since we have already proven that we have the material? And are the the civilized of the two armies?

(And perhaps their public image as well if it gets leaked there, chances of which are low, but since CCP says their troops are there to protect its territorial integrity)


I'm sorry but I'm only able to reach three possible conclusions from this.......

1. Either IA leadership is ((((afraid)))) of chinki repercussions, and possible escalation

2. They are playing the good boy routine

3. They simply don't have enough material (atleast convincing ones) of that specific clash, taking smartphones and cameras are good and all, but is not foolproof


Since there have been instances of unofficial leaks from the army, terrorist encounters and even regular brawl, least they could've done it is intentionally leak it through some unofficial means

 

[mokoman]

Let's say they indeed end up publishing more and more gruesome pics
(Of a conflict which, in this hypothetical scenario Indian public has seen the hypothetical images released by GoI, and knows we have given them a bloody knows with proof to back it up)

Mind you they do it through official channels, your words

Wouldn't this only help our cause internationally?
Rather than causing an upheavel and face loss, since we have already proven that we have the material? And are the the civilized of the two armies?

(And perhaps their public image as well if it gets leaked there, chances of which are low, but since CCP says their troops are there to protect its territorial integrity)


I'm sorry but I'm only able to reach three possible conclusions from this.......

1. Either IA leadership is ((((afraid)))) of chinki repercussions, and possible escalation

2. They are playing the good boy routine

3. They simply don't have enough material (atleast convincing ones) of that specific clash, taking smartphones and cameras are good and all, but is not foolproof


Since there have been instances of unofficial leaks from the army, terrorist encounters and even regular brawl, least they could've done it is intentionally leak it through some unofficial means

Gov wont release anything because Gov wants China to come negotiate with us . we want them to pull back troops and agree to a reasonable buffer zone at LAC

so we cant humiliate them . this was evident after we captured their recon soldiers , instead of posting their pics or video , gov claimed they were lost - dehydrated , like . and then returned them . this was done twice - even Chinese knew this was bullshit

 

[Tactical Doge]

Gov wont release anything because Gov wants China to come negotiate with us . we want them to pull back troops and agree to a reasonable buffer zone at LAC

so we cant humiliate them . this was evident after we captured their recon soldiers , instead of posting their pics or video , gov claimed they were lost - dehydrated , like . and then returned them . this was done twice - even Chinese knew this was bullshit

Makes sense

 

[vidhwanshak]

Gov wont release anything because Gov wants China to come negotiate with us . we want them to pull back troops and agree to a reasonable buffer zone at LAC

so we cant humiliate them . this was evident after we captured their recon soldiers , instead of posting their pics or video , gov claimed they were lost - dehydrated , like . and then returned them . this was done twice - even Chinese knew this was bullshit

agreed.
Recently few Chinese were captured including 4officers. But no pics/video came out.
We got to know about this through Sena Medal Citation of the officer.

 

[AnantS]

China is working overtime to present a very favorable view of Chinese people towards Indians by inviting Indian vloggers and allowing them to roam the length and breadth of the country.. some have been there for a month painting such a rosy picture, it would seem nothing ever happened.

That's perception management CCP style.. and emotional Indians are melting in the comments section saying ' politicians are bad bro... BJP bad.. Modi bad.. Chinese such nice people.. Indian media bad bro...'.

Chinese mango people are ok but remember they are very clinical in what they do. They weren't like this but they learnt how to be clinical and methodical, almost machine like from the Japanese with whom they share a long love-hate relationship.

They all are paid tours. Thats why 50 cents She Jink Plink's bots were spamming this board with their videos.

 

[Azaad]

I don't understand why for the love of God can't you guys understand what's been understood the world over in Foreign policy establishments , TTs etc long ago , that there's no such thing as a TFW.

The moment it gets to that it'd turn nuclear. It's as simple as that . What's more the Pakistanis deep state knows it as well.And they have the most to fear from a TFW not so much the Chinese unless they initiate of which chances are slim to non existent.

Check out the origin of the THE concept. Hint: It didn't come from abroad courtesy the same busybody TTs in the west specialising in South Asia nor did it originate in Beijing or Pindi for obvious reasons. It originated here. Add 2+2 & you'd know why was this idea conceived here & propagated from here . See who benefits from it ?

 

[Kumaoni]

Time to bring out this masterpiece.
Credit @FalconSlayers

View attachment 217214

You know what they may have a point.
Look at how incompetent the generals are

Indian Army's 'Jet Pack Suits' Could Debut In Kashmir; Can Also Be Used To Defend 'Key Points' Near China, Pakistan

Indian Army is turning its soldier into 'Iron Man' with Jet Pack suits to bolster its capabilities near China & Pakistan and use in Kashmir.

www.eurasiantimes.com

 

[Love Charger]

‘To be precise 81 years.

I see , if my dadaji were to be alive today , he would have your age sir.
I take the liberty to assume that your year of birth is 1942 or 1943.
My naana is alive and indeed he is your age ,the once sharp minded professor , now showing signs of age sadly .he is still with us and that is a good thing .
I wish you a long and peaceful life ahead in your twilight years sir and I won't argue with you not that I have ever done so , I only wish your experience here and everywhere else be cheerful and a happy one at this age .
And no sir iam not a chinese spy as you accused me of being one few months back .
Good night sir.