India-China Border conflict

[Alien_cat26]

What is the average speed of these rockets... the PHL-191 in particular?

Not sure, there are no resources in Google Search...
I only know that the diameter of the rocket is 370mm

 

[another_armchair]

Not sure, there are no resources in Google Search...
I only know that the diameter of the rocket is 370mm

Yeah.. had googled in the past but couldn't find anything credible.

What is the speed of the BM-30 Smerch rockets?

Could be intercepted by Iron Dome imo or something similar...and equally affordable.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

"koi nahi gussa" will work in china but not in india where even veterans will talk freely to the media

listen to this maj gen , talk about how we patrolled PPs in depsang even in 2016 , even beyond yjunc.

how chinese tried to resist but couldnt endure the cold.


But now the northern command try to brush it under carpet by saying 'legacy issue' , we didnt patrol beyong yjunc bla bla bla.


Doesnt look like chinese have the balls to start a war and sadly neither us.

if no action is taken soon . depsang bulge will be lost and this standoff will end up like another 2001 stand off .

Lt Gen Rakesh Sharma (former GOC 14 corps) in an act interview (with Nitin Gokhale ig) said that up till 2020 beginning we patrolled upto those pp which is blocked now

 

[Jimih]

if no action is taken soon . depsang bulge will be lost and this standoff will end up like another 2001 stand off .

Depsang bulge is already lost according to my reading, only and only Kinetic action will retrieve it back.

They have strategically placed themselves at Depsang to target Siachen in collusion with the Pakis.

They also intend to insulate Karakoram pass, our DBO is in real threat.

 

[Alien_cat26]

Yeah.. had googled in the past but couldn't find anything credible.

What is the speed of the BM-30 Smerch rockets?

Could be intercepted by Iron Dome imo or something similar...and equally affordable.

Find some useful resources that are only updated today.

https://min.news/en/news/a0e152bb53ea9a8ea7f30c1da46ea81b.html

 

[fire starter]

 

[Alien_cat26]

China deploys new PCL191 long-range artillery in Aksai Chin.

Official video content

 

[Jimih]

Some Highlights:

1) That cannot be said for the manner in which Lt Gen YK Joshi, the Northern Army Commander, claimed that the situation in Depsang, where we face the maximum threat, was a “legacy issue”, implying it had unfolded before the 2020 events. An assertion quickly debunked by former Corps Commanders of the Leh Corps, suggesting the statement was motivated by political considerations.

2) Be that as it may, what is truly worrisome is the manner in which the military leadership has behaved over this issue, especially its pathetic attempts to hide behind the dhotis of the political establishment

3) During the Kargil conflict, for example, the top military and civilian leadership first blithely ignored warnings of imminent conflict and subsequently allowed army generals to get away by scapegoating mid-level commanders to hide their own failures.

 

[The Shrike]

That video posted by @Jimih earlier is a must watch for people looking details, finally got around to seeing it. Only negative was that Maj Gen Sudhakar was about to give a detailed account on Galwan but got cut off (so only events of May 5 was covered), but he did say he is writing an article on it, hopefully it gets posted here.

 

[vidhwanshak]

A very informative video on Tawang and our position there.

 

[Knowitall]

"koi nahi gussa" will work in china but not in india where even veterans will talk freely to the media

listen to this maj gen , talk about how we patrolled PPs in depsang even in 2016 , even beyond yjunc.

how chinese tried to resist but couldnt endure the cold.


But now the northern command try to brush it under carpet by saying 'legacy issue' , we didnt patrol beyong yjunc bla bla bla.


Doesnt look like chinese have the balls to start a war and sadly neither us.

if no action is taken soon . depsang bulge will be lost and this standoff will end up like another 2001 stand off .

I think the answer lies in your comment itself.

China will continue to oppose any sort of military escalation as long as it continues to get something no matter how insignificant. Any gain is better than a full blown war which can unwanted results both in the field and in the wider diplomatic world.

If you are getting despang and are able to create buffer zones inside our territory without firing a single bullet it's a big win in itself.

 

[mist_consecutive]

I am pretty sure the range of PCL191 is nowhere near 350km or even 300km.

I just sat down and did some bunch of mathematics, result -

• Taking PHL03 as a baseline for calculating the range of PCL191 (both use the same TELs), the range of PHL03 300mm rocket is 7.3 m (known). PCL191 rocket is actually smaller in length by around > 1m, so taking 6.3m as best case.
  
  
• For simplicity, omitting warhead and electronics and assuming the whole rocket is filled with fuel, the quantity of propellant in PCL191 is only 30% more than PHL03.
  
  
• Taking the above estimation, if the range of PHL03 is 150km (still exaggerated, it should be around 100-120km compared to other 21st-century rocket artillery), the range of PCL191 should be < 300km at the best case, but around 180km for a realistic estimate.

=============================================================

I don't believe in communist propaganda at all. Heck, no way that smol rocket can fly the claimed 350km range with such little propellant.

I will properly do all the calculations and probably write an article to bust Chinese propaganda of invincible weapons.

 

[Alien_cat26]

I am pretty sure the range of PCL191 is nowhere near 350km or even 300km.

I just sat down and did some bunch of mathematics, result -

• Taking PHL03 as a baseline for calculating the range of PCL191 (both use the same TELs), the range of PHL03 300mm rocket is 7.3 m (known). PCL191 rocket is actually smaller in length by around > 1m, so taking 6.3m as best case.
  
  
• For simplicity, omitting warhead and electronics and assuming the whole rocket is filled with fuel, the quantity of propellant in PCL191 is only 30% more than PHL03.
  
  
• Taking the above estimation, if the range of PHL03 is 150km (still exaggerated, it should be around 100-120km compared to other 21st-century rocket artillery), the range of PCL191 should be < 300km at the best case, but around 180km for a realistic estimate.

=============================================================

I don't believe in communist propaganda at all. Heck, no way that smol rocket can fly the claimed 350km range with such little propellant.

I will properly do all the calculations and probably write an article to bust Chinese propaganda of invincible weapons.

The range of 180km is for army fire support or strike. It is already excellent, I personally think.
"The PHL03 maximum range of 70Km extended range projectile is 100Km " ( by Wiki )

 

[mist_consecutive]

The range of 180km is for army fire support or strike. It is already excellent, I personally think.
"The PHL03 maximum range of 70Km extended range projectile is 100Km " ( by Wiki )

Yes, of course, any rocket artillery with a range of > 100 km will be a very good standoff weapon.

However my calculations were based on an advertised range of PHL03 which is 150km, if you are saying PHL03's actual range is 100km, then the PCL191 range will be around 130km, and at best 150km in an extreme case scenario.

 

[Alien_cat26]

Yes, of course, any rocket artillery with a range of > 100 km will be a very good standoff weapon.

However my calculations were based on an advertised range of PHL03 which is 150km, if you are saying PHL03's actual range is 100km, then the PCL191 range will be around 130km, and at best 150km in an extreme case scenario.

You should be able to find a good position in Indian Defense

 

[doreamon]

Regarding our capability in mbrl

Smerch 300mm has 90km range . 214 mm Pinaka also has a range of 90 km. It also has an extended range version. Guided Pinaka rockets can go up to 100 km. Using ram jet-propelled rockets, in a couple of years, it can go up to 200-250 km .

 

[The Shrike]

Aren't we drilling tunnel for zojila pass? U don't think this can penetrate or cripple the tunnel to block us.

You can't really "cut off" a pass or road using bombs, and the tunnel is many years from completion. However they can target bridges and other logistic nodes.

I think a bigger concern is that with 200+ km rockets they could target bases in the rear including airforce stations like Hasimara and Tezpur (in fact all air bases in NE). Of course it will really depend on the a few factors:
1) How many platforms and rockets the PLA can actually have available in this sector (how many does the PLA have in its inventory?). Say if they can bring in 40 in each sector, I think it would be very impressive - 40 x 8 = 320 rockets in each salvo, they could probably get off 2 if not 3 salvos in day one. Now add in their SRBMs and cruise missiles you can have a budget of as much as 1000 rockets/missiles to use with in the first few hours of the war - which should be enough to pepper all the main IAF bases in NE. Of course this is all hypothetical, I don’t know if there are any open source info the numbers PLA has in total and how may they have deployed in the region.
2) How well they have adapted to the cold weather, high altitude and mountainous terrain.
3) If we have any countermeasures - we don’t have any interception capability, but maybe jamming their GPS or early detection and evasion?

 

[srevster]

You can't really "cut off" a pass or road using bombs, and the tunnel is many years from completion. However they can target bridges and other logistic nodes.

I think a bigger concern is that with 200+ km rockets they could target bases in the rear including airforce stations like Hasimara and Tezpur (in fact all air bases in NE). Of course it will really depend on the a few factors:
1) How many platforms and rockets the PLA can actually have available in this sector (how many does the PLA have in its inventory?). Say if they can bring in 40 in each sector, I think it would be very impressive - 40 x 8 = 320 rockets in each salvo, they could probably get off 2 if not 3 salvos in day one. Now add in their SRBMs and cruise missiles you can have a budget of as much as 1000 rockets/missiles to use with in the first few hours of the war - which should be enough to pepper all the main IAF bases in NE. Of course this is all hypothetical, I don’t know if there are any open source info the numbers PLA has in total and how may they have deployed in the region.
2) How well they have adapted to the cold weather, high altitude and mountainous terrain.
3) If we have any countermeasures - we don’t have any interception capability, but maybe jamming their GPS or early detection and evasion?

only long term solution is a free Tibet acting as a buffer! India has to make this the main objective if there is a shooting match. Also Indian troops should deploy behind artillery lines on day 1. Defensive posture won’t work. But if you engage upclose, their artillery is useless if we have paratroopers engaging with their troops.

 

[HawkisRight]

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Indians and Indian media have gone on to say that US intel reports suggest around 45 chinese soldiers KIA, whereas Pentagons report says unknown number of chinese soldiers KIA