India-China Border conflict

[BabaKhalbali]

Instead of obsessing about LAC wastelands, India must deal with the real threat — China

Fond dreams of capturing Aksai Chin need to be replaced with clear-eyed thinking on the borders India considers worth fighting for, and what is needed to defend them.

theprint.in

Propaganda funded by CCP

 

[ym888]

Instead of obsessing about LAC wastelands, India must deal with the real threat — China

Fond dreams of capturing Aksai Chin need to be replaced with clear-eyed thinking on the borders India considers worth fighting for, and what is needed to defend them.

theprint.in

Propaganda funded by CCP

really?

Is this article good for China?

 

[InfinityWarrior Thanos]

really?

Is this article good for China?

Yes Praveen Swami wants us to forget about Aksai chin , ie give up our Rightful claim. While chinese will attempt another Salami Slicing.

 

[Tridev123]

Won't change much. The strategic depth is too less, and our backs are touching the Siachen glacier. The only thing that might save it is an investment in heavy tanks (which can beat Type-99s) in both quality and quantity, as well as attack helicopters and UCAV.

Ladakh is not a populated area, so no chance of urban and guerrilla warfare. Tanks, attack helicopters, and UCAVs will be the decisive factor.



Our "official" cyber warfare dept. is weak compared to China, which employs state-sponsored hackers and cyber-force. Whereas our open-source and independent hacker teams are much, much more powerful than Chinese teams. We are comparable, maybe even equal to the American cyber vigilantes.

For example, our OSINT dis-information group/propaganda group is much more active and effective than state-sponsored ones. You get what I am trying to say



Offense is the best defense

I would like to second your view that sometimes having a big stick will deter potential aggressors. Possessing Offensive Capabilities is not an bad strategy as far as the China front is concerned.

Now let us look at the PLA strategy and battle plan against India.
1.They know what India will not launch any true, deep offensive action to capture Tibet and Xinjiang. If not the whole of these two Chinese Occupied Territories(COT)
at least capturing large parts of them should be the objective of our war strategy. But that will not happen. Because of lack of political will(no political party openly advocates that India should aspire to free Tibet and Xinjiang from Chinese control) and inadequate military resources.

2.So the Chinese PLA Generals who feel that India will never take the battle to their territory(shallow thrusts or offensives wherein we advance a few kms or even tens of kms into Tibet and/or Xinjiang do not count as real deep offensive action. They are more like tactical moves and betray an defensive mindset) feel free to make grandiose plans on capturing Arunachal Pradesh, Ladakh and many other areas.
They feel that they are a big bully who can easily twist our arm.

3.There is an basic difference in the mindset of the Indian Political/Military establishment and the Chinese CCP/PLA organisation. They dream of offensive action and capture of Indian territory while we are content with thinking of repulsing any attack on our borders and preserving the status quo.

4.Not an ideal situation. There is not even one official statement which questions China's illegal occupation of Tibet(and Xinjiang) and stakes our claim to the region.

5.Whereas in contrast we created large offensive forces for the annihilation of Pakistan. Even a decade ago we had three Strike Corps which would have blasted their way into Pakistan and cut that country into multiple parts. The Generals in Islamabad were dead scared of our offensive capabilities(Though we have reduced the number of offensive strike corps primed for action against Pakistan to two, they are still very potent and deter Islamabad)

6.I believe and I guess many others would support it - unless we create such an offensive capability(like we have against Pakistan) against China also, they will not see us as an equal. Visualise an Indian mountain strike corps going deep into Tibet and reaching the outskirts of Lhasa. Or an Indian armoured/infantry division entering Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang. Should not Chinese then piss in their pants while even imagining an Indian offensive which will sever both Tibet and Xinjiang from the Chinese mainland.

7.Are we even thinking about creating such an deterrent against China. Is it beyond our capability or is it realisable if we continue to grow economically at rates of 10% for the next decade and more. How much defence expenditure would be required. What weapons would we require. What accretion in forces is necessary. Or are we content in simply trying to ensure that we don't lose any more territory to the Chinese. An out and out defensive strategy for the coming decades.

 

[mokoman]

Yes Praveen Swami wants us to forget about Aksai chin , ie give up our Rightful claim. While chinese will attempt another Salami Slicing.

what he is hinting at is that we should accept their 1959 line .

aka give up parts of demchok ,entire aksai chin . chinese will lose parts of depsang plains , galwan valley , pangong tso etc.

not a bad deal , except at demchok .

red is LAC , dotted line will become defacto border . we will lose some bits in bottom portion .

 

[Marliii]

@mist_consecutive are our current tanks enough to beat type 99s? Any info on the type 99 is quite polarising

 

[Jimih]

what he is hinting at is that we should accept their 1959 line .

aka give up parts of demchok ,entire aksai chin . chinese will lose parts of depsang plains , galwan valley , pangong tso etc.

not a bad deal , except at demchok .

If it was such an easy "give and take" deal according to you than the dispute would had been settled long time back.

 

[mokoman]

If it was such an easy "give and take" formula according to you than the dispute would have been settled long time back.

the claim lines is as shown in the image .

If it was such an easy "give and take"

obviously , hard part is we give up claim over aksai chin and not 100% sure but looks like we need to give up parts of demchok.

aksai chin part is moot , we will never get it back , demchok is bit harder to swallow .

ofcourse Chinese have to agree . but this is what everyone is hinting at.

 

[Jimih]

the claim lines is as shown in the image .

If it was such an easy "give and take"

obviously , hard part is we give up claim over aksai chin and not 100% sure but looks like we need to give up parts of demchok.

aksai chin part is moot , we will never get it back , demchok is bit harder to swallow .

ofcourse Chinese have to agree . but this is what everyone is hinting at.

Ya, first loose your claims to Aksai Chin, than after that Tawang and than after that whole Arunachal Pradesh.

Just as Akshay Kumar said in the movie Hera Pheri 2:

"ek ek karke apna saara sharir bech dunga"

The pesky Chinese are not gonna stop how much you pander to them. GoI has realised this.

 

[mokoman]

Ya, first loose your claims in Aksai Chin, than after that Tawang and than after that whole Arunachal Pradesh.

Just as Akshay Kumar said in the movie Hera Pheri 2

"ek ek karke apna saara sharir bech dunga"

The pesky Chinese are not gonna stop.

we dont need any "claims" on Tawang and AP . we own it .

This isnt my idea , its just something that gets thrown around in articles. not for or against . but it does have value - only question is cost.

besides gov has called the 1959 line rubbish anyway .

 

[Jimih]

we dont need any "claims" on Tawang and AP . we own it .

Aksai Chin was also owned by us uptill 1962.

 

[Jimih]

bit controversial , but aksai chin isnt really indian or chinese . apart from hunters and travellers it has no active population .

Now you are talking like a foreign agent.

Go read some history first before posting anything.

Sometimes I find your posts very nuanced and hinting at something in a very veiled manner.

 

[saffronwarrior]

only on paper man . chinese started building their road in 1950s

bit controversial , but aksai chin isnt really indian or chinese . apart from hunters and travellers it has no active population .

we have no intention of getting it back , best to take that into account .

It looks like the ghost of the guy in your profile picture has possessed your body and is slowly taking over your personality

 

[mokoman]

Now you are talking like a foreign agent.

Go read some history first before posting anything.

Sometimes I find your posts very nuanced and hinting at something in a very veiled manner.

i deleted it . but u can read about it on wiki yourself

Aksai Chin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because of its 5,000-metre (16,000 ft) elevation, the desolation of Aksai Chin meant that it had no human importance other than as an ancient trade route, which provided a temporary pass during summer for caravans of yaks between Xinjiang and Tibet.

One of the earliest treaties regarding the boundaries in the western sector was signed in 1842. Ladakh was conquered a few years earlier by the armies of Raja Gulab Singh (Dogra) under the suzerainty of the Sikh Empire. Following an unsuccessful campaign into Tibet in 1840, Gulab Singh and the Tibetans signed a treaty, agreeing to stick to the "old, established frontiers", which were left unspecified

Despite this region being nearly uninhabitable and having no resources, it remains strategically important for China as it connects Tibet and Xinjiang. During the 1950s, the People's Republic of China built a 1,200 km (750 mi) road connecting Xinjiang and western Tibet, of which 179 km (112 mi) ran south of the Johnson Line through the Aksai Chin region claimed by India.[18][28] Aksai Chin was easily accessible to the Chinese, but was more difficult for the Indians on the other side of the Karakorams to reach.[18] The Indians did not learn of the existence of the road until 1957, which was confirmed when the road was shown in Chinese maps published in 1958.[36] The construction of this highway was one of the triggers for the Sino-Indian War of 1962.[3

i am just saying , almost all of LAC has a long complicated history .

then it got fucked by the british , then nehru , then chinese .

there are claims , counter claims , etc . same goes for doklam. its part of several treaties but where the border lies isnt specified exactly

if we can settle the border with China peacefully with a give-and-take . nothing wrong in that . holding on to the 'wont-giveup-1-inch' principle is foolish.

 

[Jimih]

i am just saying , almost all of LAC has a long complicated history .

then it got fucked by the british , then nehru , then chinese .

there are claims , counter claims , etc . same goes for doklam. its part of several treaties but where the border lies isnt specified exactly

if we can settle the border with China peacefully with a give-and-take . nothing wrong in that . holding on to the 'wont-giveup-1-inch' principle is foolish.

One thing I find it intriguing when you wail on Russia-Ukraine thread on how India should not come closer to Russia and become China's bitch, but surprisingly on this thread you talk about striking deals with China and give up our claims and that too in their terms only.

What portion of land China is willing to give up in the so called "Give and take" deals? Will they stop making Border Villages near Arunachal or will they stop making Border Villages near Bhutan or salami slicing whenever they find us un-prepared?

Why China don't accept McMahon Line since it had accepted the same line drawn at the same time in 1912 with Myanmar?

Why China, a country three times the size of India, and having obtained willingly India's concurrence for Tibet's assimilation into it chose to make the Sino-Indian border an issue of such serious contention and distrust?

 

[mokoman]

One thing I find it intriguing when you wail on Russia-Ukraine thread on how India should not come closer to Russia and become China's bitch, but surprisingly on this thread you talk about striking deals with China and give up our claims and that too in their terms only.

What portion of land China is willing to give up in the so called "Give and take" deals? Will they stop making Border Villages near Arunachal or will they stop making Border Villages near Bhutan or salami slicing whenever they find us un-prepared?

Why China don't accept McMahon Line since it had accepted the same line drawn at the same time in 1912 with Myanmar?

Why China, a country three times the size of India, and having obtained willingly India's concurrence for Tibet's assimilation into it chose to make the Sino-Indian border an issue of such serious contention and distrust?

but surprisingly on this thread you talk about striking deals with China and give up our claims and that too in their terms only.

i never said on their terms , i meant settling the entire border in future . that includes AP , Tawang too .

Why China don't accept McMahon Line since it had accepted the same line drawn at the same time in 1912 with Myanmar?

Why China, a country three times the size of India, and having obtained willingly India's concurrence for Tibet's assimilation into it chose to make the Sino-Indian border an issue of such serious contention and distrust?

difference between Myanmar border and India-China border is that , the 2nd largest buddhist monastery is in Tawang , not in Myanmar . the road Chinese needed to connect Tibet and Xianjing passed through Aksai Chin - both Tibet and Xianjing were taken over by China in 50s . Myanmar border doest have a similar importance. Aksai Chin is in Chinese hands simply because they needed that road . not because they think its inside Tibet .

GOI isnt interested in getting back Aksai Chin - IMHO i rather we focus on POK , if settling the border and giving up claim on Aksai Chin would help with that , i wouldnt mind

 

[samsaptaka]

please time stamp mention kar do

BTW Col Mohit Thapa is highly experienced in mountain

Col Thapa of Doon leads expedition for Mt Kun

Colonel Mohit Thapa of Dehradun has been selected by the Indian army to lead a 23 member team for its first ever expedition of the challenging peak of Mount Kun (7077 mts) located in Ladhak region. Mount Kun is the second highest peak in the Zanskar Range and is part of the twin summit in the

www.dailypioneer.com

He died only bcos our coward politicians don't allow soldiers to use weapons at the chinka border ! And we still.havent ditched that agreement I think

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

1. In the event our most likely strike will cutting down the entire G219 highway in Aksai chin. It is the lifeline highway for their troop movement.

2. Even the complicated procurement of our army, one thing we made a good investment in the form of ATGM's . Only way is to strike their mechanized infantry with our own Light ATGM Strike group. This will held them for some time.

3. Another strategy is similar to Russian's take their nearby base with cruise missiles and push their AF as much as possible so we can move forward with our AF backing.

4. Another few advantage is we are nearer to population center than them so we can replenish faster compared to them where they need to move from East.

5. Need to Utilize our paratroopers to insert them in critical sector for multiple surprise attacks.

Fighting against China requires more than armory, but insane planning and brutal battle tactics by our General. We should not bog down with useless conditions. Pulverize Pakistan and capture as much land as possible by pushing the Chinese.

 

[vidhwanshak]

He died only bcos our coward politicians don't allow soldiers to use weapons at the chinka border ! And we still.havent ditched that agreement I think

who died?
Col. Thapa is very much alive and Kicking and was recently awarded with SM

 

[Flying Dagger]

Yes Praveen Swami wants us to forget about Aksai chin , ie give up our Rightful claim. While chinese will attempt another Salami Slicing.

1. Aksai Hind.... Please correct the name...

@MOD please delete or edit posts which mention the name wrongly It is simply an act of acceding the territory even before the fight started.

It is now you are falling for the propaganda.