India-China Border conflict

[THESIS THORON]

source？

had read on some twitter handle

 

[ym888]

had read on some twitter handle

Colombo (Asia News) - Sri Lanka has made a new request of $2.5 billion from China: a $1 billion loan and a $1.5 billion credit line, which would add to the $2.8 billion in aid Beijing has provided to Sri Lanka since the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic.



The island nation is facing its worst economic crisis since independence. On March 18, the Sri Lankan government received a $5 loan from the China Development Bank.



Last year, President Gotabaya Rajapaksa called on China to restructure its debt as its foreign exchange reserves dried up. The request comes after international ratings agencies downgraded Colombo's sovereign debt.



Over the past decade, Beijing has lent Sri Lanka more than $5 billion to build airports, ports, highways and coal-fired power plants. In contrast to China's position, critics say the funds have been used for "desert cathedrals" with low economic returns.



Institutionally, China is Sri Lanka's largest lender after the Asian Development Bank and Japan.



In September 2020, for example, Laos, a country on the brink of bankruptcy, sold part of its power grid to a Chinese-controlled company for $600 million to relieve Chinese creditors. If it fails to repay its debts, Sri Lanka could find itself in the same situation in the future.



Many economists believe Sri Lanka and China are trying to revive their bilateral free trade agreement. Six rounds of negotiations have already taken place: if the treaty is finally signed, the vast Chinese market will be opened up to Sri Lankan producers, traders and exporters. Observers believe the agreement will stimulate bilateral trade and help reduce Sri Lanka's dependence on traditional US and European markets.



Colombo is not only focused on China. The sri Lankan government has also secured a $1 billion credit line from India. The agreement was signed on March 17 during a visit by Finance Minister Basil Rajapaksa to the State Bank of India.



Sri Lanka must repay about $4 billion in debt in 2022, including a $1 billion government bond due in July. However, the country's foreign exchange reserves fell to $2.31 billion in February.



A shortage of foreign currency has left Sri Lanka struggling to pay for imports of basic necessities such as food, fuel and medicine. Power cuts have occurred across the country because of a shortage of fuel to produce energy.



The situation led to a series of protests by the political opposition and civic groups, which blamed the crisis on Mr. Rajapaksa's government.

 

[Photon]

Scientists from Russia and China have developed the concept of an astrophysical telescope on the moon

Учёные России и Китая разработали концепции астрофизического телескопа на Луне — Новости Космонавтики

 

[LaIllahaSigmar]

Good post with interesting points and inputs from the op in the comments.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Good post with interesting points and inputs from the op in the comments.

Good post.

Few points -

• Cyber warfare is overrated. Both Indian and Chinese cyber-warfare capability is more or less equally matched.
• We might see the first examples of space warfare. India and China shooting down each other's satellites.
• DBO and Depsang plains will fall to Chinese armored thrust within 48 hours.
• In absence of strong supply lines in Himalayan terrains, para-troopers will play an important role.
• We will be winning the information warfare (west on our side).
• IAF will have a slight edge over PLAAF due to the lack of PLAAF airbases as well as training and experience.

 

[LaIllahaSigmar]

• DBO and Depsang plains will fall to Chinese armored thrust within 48 hours.

In this context, how do you perceive our push for light tanks?
Shouldn't we invest more in atgms and suicide drones instead?

• Both Indian and Chinese cyber-warfare capability is more or less equally matched.

Why do you say so?
I have only seen assessments saying we are a second rate power here.

 

[maximus777]

In this context, how do you perceive our push for light tanks?
Shouldn't we invest more in atgms and suicide drones instead?



Why do you say so?
I have only seen assessments saying we are a second rate power here.

Light tanks are an useless acquisition. Unless we plan to take the battle deep into Tibet, it will never be used or will get butchered if we do so. ATGMs and drones should be the focus.

I had the same perception regarding cyber capabilities. Not sure what has changed so dramatically.

 

[mist_consecutive]

In this context, how do you perceive our push for light tanks?
Shouldn't we invest more in atgms and suicide drones instead?

Won't change much. The strategic depth is too less, and our backs are touching the Siachen glacier. The only thing that might save it is an investment in heavy tanks (which can beat Type-99s) in both quality and quantity, as well as attack helicopters and UCAV.

Ladakh is not a populated area, so no chance of urban and guerrilla warfare. Tanks, attack helicopters, and UCAVs will be the decisive factor.

Why do you say so?
I have only seen assessments saying we are a second rate power here.

Our "official" cyber warfare dept. is weak compared to China, which employs state-sponsored hackers and cyber-force. Whereas our open-source and independent hacker teams are much, much more powerful than Chinese teams. We are comparable, maybe even equal to the American cyber vigilantes.

For example, our OSINT dis-information group/propaganda group is much more active and effective than state-sponsored ones. You get what I am trying to say

Light tanks are an useless acquisition. Unless we plan to take the battle deep into Tibet, it will never be used or will get butchered if we do so. ATGMs and drones should be the focus.

I had the same perception regarding cyber capabilities. Not sure what has changed so dramatically.

Offense is the best defense

 

[maximus777]

Offense is the best defense

You would think, but then again we are dealing with our "koi nahi ghussa" MOD/MEA/PMO!

 

[mist_consecutive]

You would think, but then again we are dealing with our "koi nahi ghussa" MOD/MEA/PMO!

"Koi nhi ghussa" is for domestic mango people who read the "Times of India" for news and their biggest concern is the price of Bhindi and section 80C.

For ground reality, it is Op. Snow Leopard and rapid infrastructure modernization to deter Chinese invasion.

 

[mist_consecutive]

As summer sets in, military reviews situation on LAC | India News - Times of India

India News: With the onset of summer amidst no signs of de-escalation in the 22-month old troop confrontation in eastern Ladakh, top Army and IAF commanders on Tu

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[India Super Power]

@mist_consecutive if dbo and depsang will be theirs in initial thrust then is there any place or area which will fall under us and give some sort advantage?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Good post.

Few points -

• Cyber warfare is overrated. Both Indian and Chinese cyber-warfare capability is more or less equally matched.
• We might see the first examples of space warfare. India and China shooting down each other's satellites.
• DBO and Depsang plains will fall to Chinese armored thrust within 48 hours.
• In absence of strong supply lines in Himalayan terrains, para-troopers will play an important role.
• We will be winning the information warfare (west on our side).
• IAF will have a slight edge over PLAAF due to the lack of PLAAF airbases as well as training and experience.

I doubt we are at same level with Chinese in cyber warfare... They have demonstrated themselves way ahead time to time.

IAF edge is overrated they need fighter jets and army needs artillery SPH missiles etc.

 

[Waanar]

Good post.

Few points -

• Cyber warfare is overrated. Both Indian and Chinese cyber-warfare capability is more or less equally matched.
• We might see the first examples of space warfare. India and China shooting down each other's satellites.
• DBO and Depsang plains will fall to Chinese armored thrust within 48 hours.
• In absence of strong supply lines in Himalayan terrains, para-troopers will play an important role.
• We will be winning the information warfare (west on our side).
• IAF will have a slight edge over PLAAF due to the lack of PLAAF airbases as well as training and experience.

Armor is overrated. The best and most prevalent Chinese tanks have rather thin armor, susceptible to even RPG rockets.

As for the paratroopers point, we don't have enough.
We have a large SF force, which makes sense in a peer to peer conflict but regular paratroopers (static line jumpers) are running in short supply, though it's not really that hard to train a large force to jump static line if the course is condensed (US Navy's static line course is 5 days long iirc) and parachutes are ordered or made in haste.
Static line is super simple to train as long as you're dropping only light infantry. It does require a lot more training to learn how to drop armor.


If the Chinese have any sense, they won't attack though. It's a lose lose for both sides, and anyone seeing the Russia Ukraine war knows how hard and slow progress against peer or near peer force can get.

All in all, I'd much rather we keep extending the talks. Y'all be cursing GoI for chai biskoot but I believe that's the best move for now and just needs to be continued till China makes a move for Taiwan (which is the first slide in the sequence of Chinese expansionist dreams).

After a war with Taiwan, we're pretty much set.
If west sanctions China the same way it sanctioned Russia and Taiwan puts up a good fight, expect raid deterioration in the Chinese capability to fight.

We can make a move on Pakistan then.
As well as Tibet once China's demographic collapse hits it full force.

 

[mokoman]

Won't change much. The strategic depth is too less, and our backs are touching the Siachen glacier. The only thing that might save it is an investment in heavy tanks (which can beat Type-99s) in both quality and quantity, as well as attack helicopters and UCAV.

Ladakh is not a populated area, so no chance of urban and guerrilla warfare. Tanks, attack helicopters, and UCAVs will be the decisive factor.



Our "official" cyber warfare dept. is weak compared to China, which employs state-sponsored hackers and cyber-force. Whereas our open-source and independent hacker teams are much, much more powerful than Chinese teams. We are comparable, maybe even equal to the American cyber vigilantes.

For example, our OSINT dis-information group/propaganda group is much more active and effective than state-sponsored ones. You get what I am trying to say



Offense is the best defense

Whereas our open-source and independent hacker teams are much, much more powerful than Chinese teams. We are comparable,

Chinese have a literal cyber army like the Israelis , 50,000 according to wiki. not to mention cyber tools matching US and Israel . keep hearing about how they hack into pentagon and DOD and steal state/military secrets. i doubt we have anywhere near their capability.

best option is to get help from US and Israelis , US probably have vast info on Chinese military and civilian networks - and israelis can give us some nice hacking tools

 

[mokoman]

@mist_consecutive if dbo and depsang will be theirs in initial thrust then is there any place or area which will fall under us and give some sort advantage?

That penis looking portion with Doklam at tip maybe vunerable to Indian attack .

to counter , they have been building roads on bhutanese side .

maybe just my fantasy , but we maybe able to cut it out .

we can literally neuter the Chinese .

 

[Tactical Doge]

That penis looking portion with Doklam at tip

 

[karn]

I know we have troops in Bhutan.. but if china is serious about invading us .. they will do so via Nepal and Bhutan. The Belgium solution . How many troops can we commit to holding the entire border including these 2

 

[mist_consecutive]

@mist_consecutive if dbo and depsang will be theirs in initial thrust then is there any place or area which will fall under us and give some sort advantage?

Chumbi valley as pointed out by @mokoman, also this area -

I doubt we are at same level with Chinese in cyber warfare... They have demonstrated themselves way ahead time to time.

IAF edge is overrated they need fighter jets and army needs artillery SPH missiles etc.

Way ahead, in what way exactly ? As I said, cyber-warfare is overrated. We will have USA & Israel on out side. Despite overwhelming cyber power of Russia, its actual ground-effect on Ukraine is nothing apart from some downed bank-websites.

Regarding IAF, we have advantage until China figures out how to operate 30+ squadrons simultaneously on Indian border.

 

[mokoman]

Chumbi valley as pointed out by @mokoman, also this area -

Way ahead, in what way exactly ? As I said, cyber-warfare is overrated. We will have USA & Israel on out side. Despite overwhelming cyber power of Russia, its actual ground-effect on Ukraine is nothing apart from some downed bank-websites.

Regarding IAF, we have advantage until China figures out how to operate 30+ squadrons simultaneously on Indian border.

, bottom green arrow , thats kaurik right ,

kaurik was getting lot of attention some time back , Bipin Rawat visited there at the LAC and we are now building more roads up around the ridge. was wondering why since we dominate there.

looks like Indian army is planning what u said , we are preparing to cut the large rectangle out .

it will look better with India anyway