Civil war in Ukraine

Status
Not open for further replies.

Razor

STABLE GENIUS
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,701
Likes
9,101
Country flag
Putin to quit G20 summit after rebukes over Ukraine



Serves him right. But I wish the West can tighten up further the sanctions against Russia until it leaves Ukraine alone.
Another misleading headline from Western media ?

The Russian president's press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, has denied reports, saying Vladimir Putin plans to leave the G20 summit ahead of time due to pressure over Ukraine.

"The G20 summit ends tomorrow (on Sunday) and Vladimir Putin will surely leave it – when all the work is finished, the president will leave. The report by Reuters is wrong. The issue of the sanctions is being widely and actively discussed during all bilateral meetings, but there's no pressure," Peskov told Kommersant FM radio.

Earlier, Reuters cited an unnamed source in the Russian delegation, who said that Putin planned to skip Sunday's working session at the two-day summit in Brisbane, after Western leaders threatened more sanctions against Moscow.
 

Razor

STABLE GENIUS
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,701
Likes
9,101
Country flag
I see an immediate flare up of hostilities rather than "any leave Ukraine alone".

As Putin said "playtime has ended".
I think the freedom fighters of Donbass will make a few quick advances before winter sets in, in earnest.

Ukrainian offensive will probably start in early spring, I think.

Early spring is also the time when Russia's pity deal for winter gas to Ukr will expire.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
10,307
Likes
8,631
Country flag
I think the freedom fighters of Donbass will make a few quick advances before winter sets in, in earnest.

Ukrainian offensive will probably start in early spring, I think.

Early spring is also the time when Russia's pity deal for winter gas to Ukr will expire.
Putler can no longer feed the Crimea. In the Strait began the season of storms, ferries do not work. He needs a land corridor.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,598
I think the freedom fighters of Donbass will make a few quick advances before winter sets in, in earnest.

Ukrainian offensive will probably start in early spring, I think.

Early spring is also the time when Russia's pity deal for winter gas to Ukr will expire.
There are rumours and another major offensive is planned before winter sets in. The NovoRussians militia have already moved parts of the ceasefire line to the west. It is necessary to move it further west to save Donbass cities from shelling by the Kiev thugs.
 

Razor

STABLE GENIUS
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,701
Likes
9,101
Country flag
There are rumours and another major offensive is planned before winter sets in. The NovoRussians militia have already moved parts of the ceasefire line to the west. It is necessary to move it further west to save Donbass cities from shelling by the Kiev thugs.
Yeah, it would suck for the Novorossiyans, to be freezing in their basements with shells raining down their heads.
But some still think it is for land corridor to Crimea. :tsk:
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
10,307
Likes
8,631
Country flag
There are rumours and another major offensive is planned before winter sets in. The NovoRussians militia have already moved parts of the ceasefire line to the west. It is necessary to move it further west to save Donbass cities from shelling by the Kiev thugs.
Ha-ha-ha.................
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
10,307
Likes
8,631
Country flag
@Razor and @pmaitra I just don't want nothing many to write. My arguments you not will overpersuade.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,598
How Many Times Has Russia Invaded Ukraine? Let's Add Them Up

  • We found 36 invasions!
  • From Sarah Palin to John McCain, from the NYT to the BBC, - Google delivers over 1.3 million results.
  • Its so old and worn out, people are tuning out to the "boy who cried wolf."
Zerohedge's article on the newest Russian invasion into Ukraine was aptly titled, "The Ukraine Who Cried Wolf: Kiev Reports 32 Russian Tanks Cross Border, Market Completely Ignores."

So how many times has Ukraine, NATO, Jen Psaki and the main stream media "cried wolf?" Let's find out.

First off, doing a simple Google search for just the term, "Russian invasion of Ukraine" yields 1,350,000 results. Lots of Russian invasion stories are floating about online.

Let's get into just how many instances of 'Russian invasions' or near 'Russian invasions' have been reported this past year, starting from early days of the coup until Col. Andriy Lysenko latest'invasion' announcement.

It's a long, long list"¦
Usually when someone cries wolf it's because they want something, likely a scam or some kind of swindling going down.

In this case Ukraine is crying wolf in order to have EU and US taxpayers front the bill for their expenses"¦gas, oil, oligarch party funds, Hunter Biden – Igor Kolomoisky benders, etc"¦

For the main stream media, well they are in bed with the MIC (military industrial complex), so their payoff is more business manufacturing war.

The US and EU leaders who support the invasion meme are also in the pockets of the MIC, so it's good business"¦and manufacturing fear is also what helps keep them in office.
 

go_tango

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
53
Likes
33
MAIDAN Ha-ha-ha................. CRIMEA GONE..!!

CRIMEA Ha-ha-ha................. DONBASS GONE..!!

DONBASS Ha-ha-ha................. COMING SOON AT NEARBY THEATRES.... :namaste:
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,598
Why Russia Hasn't and Won't Invade Ukraine


Russia's invisible soldiers: always invading, never seen

Here we go again. NATO is again – how many times does that make it? – echoing Kiev and saying that Russia has invaded Ukraine. Or so says NATO's General Breedlove.
So has Russia invaded Ukraine? Of course, that all depends on your definition of "is" is, or some similar piece of deceptive hair-splitting, doesn't it? But, for most people, "invasion" means regular troops and equipment crossing the border and staying there. Is Moscow aiding the rebels in the east? Probably. But that's not what's being claimed.
If Russia had invaded, you wouldn't have to ask; if you have to ask, it hasn't.

It would have happened quickly and be plain for all to see. A thousand soldiers, a dozen or two tanks is not how it would have happened: it would have been big, it would have been sudden and it would have been over quickly. There would be no need for grainy satellite photos of combine harvesters or whatever they were; no need for reporters who forgot their cell phones saying they saw something: there would be Russian soldiers at the Dnepr certainly and maybe in Kiev or Lviv; Russian soldiers, guns, helicopters, tanks and aircraft all over the place. (Interesting to speculate, as it gets colder and armed thugs throw their weight around, how Russian troops would be received in Kiev today, isn't it? But we'll probably never know).
Crimea was different: there it was all flowers, all the way and the borders are clear, distinct and obvious. Not at all the same in the rest of Ukraine.

Yes, the Russian Army could get to the western border in a week or two without much difficulty but it wouldn't be able to stay there.

So that's why Moscow hasn't and won't "invade Ukraine": it doesn't want to find itself bogged down in months or years of ambushes, IEDs and all that. And then probably have to leave at the end, anyway. Moscow has watched the US experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. And, of course, it remembers its own in Afghanistan. Huge cost for a trivial and momentary gain.
 

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
@pmaitra, Ukraine is too sure of itself NOT because of its own strength BUT because of NATO support.

Putin is still trying to negotiate but West is in no mood to negotiate. This makes Putin's position weak.

So Putin will go back to war of attrition. @Akim is correct about a few things. Russia WILL NOT invade at this time. The war will be contained at the level currently seen or somewhat higher level.

The Donbass children will be sent to Russian schools in Southern Russia. The rebel regions are now purely mobilized regions which are in full fledged war mode.

Russia has some genuine problems and West is taking advantage of those problems. Russia will have to change. Russian society needs a long due transformation, and that transformation will come.

Where @Akim is wrong is that none of this is actually benefitting Ukraine. So while Russia is in trouble, Ukraine is in trouble too. This is the short-sightedness of Ukrainians. They are killing themselves to kill Russia.

Russian soldiers are definitely there in Donbass. Russia has been very indecisive in this conflict. Putin has always tried to negotiate and extract himself from the mess. The problem is he is trapped and there is no way out for him.

West is also making a mistake. However West is drunk on its "UNLIMITED" power. West has concluded that its power can not be challenged by anybody. So West takes unilateral actions.

Putin is facing the wrath of Anglo-American empire. UK, Australia, Canada etc. are all components of Anglo-American empire. There is no doubt that the empire is very strong. Now Russia has to prove that it can rise to the challenge.

India must stay away from this game and focus on its own developmental goals.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
Poroshenko regime is completely sold to CIA. There is not even 1% doubt. Western planners are in control of Kiev's war. @Akim is totally wrong. @Akim is either misguided or he is a propagandist. The Ukraine regime is only faces, the plans are being prepared by CIA. The funding and a numbers of weapons are coming from the West.

This is a NATO war in which Ukraine is a pawn.

This conflict is very dangerous and is unlike Yugoslavia. The reason is this is Russia's border. Russia has multiple tools available here. Kiev cannot protect itself from Moscow. The West can use any amount of bluster but it will not go for an all out war with Russia over Kiev.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
@pmaitra,

The problem with Ukrainians is that they have decided that "RUSSIA IS WEAK". The 25 years mass propaganda by West has brainwashed the Ukrainians.

The fact is USSR had the technology in late 80s to withstand NATO. Its political system was weak, not its scientific capacity.

What has sustained Russia for last 25 years? It is the science developed under USSR.

Russia has further developed the knowledge. Russia's problem is that it is good only in certain pockets. The lack of resources and people does not allow it to develop holistically like USSR.

My suspicion is that Russia will resort to things which it is good in, if it continues to be subjected to pressure. And Russia is good in offensive weapons.

If war continues in East, then bigger weapons will increasingly come into play in Ukraine. I am sure both Ukraine and Russia are procuring "suitable" weapons as we talk. Ukraine infrastructure outside the current zone of conflict will come into focus tomorrow.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,598
@sgarg,

I don't think Russian soldiers are in E. Ukraine. Volunteers are, no doubt.

Let's say a man was in the Indian Army, but is retired, and then on his own volition, goes to fight the ISIS, would you say Indian soldiers are in Iraq? No.

Russia is helping the militia with weapons. There are volunteers from Russia. But Russian soldiers? No. There is none.

You also need to understand that Russia has conscription. So, even a civilian who had been a conscript is a trained soldier.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
My prediction is that Ukraine will never join EU. The troubles in Ukraine will break the back of EU. The Ukraine conflict is the strongest indicator of World War III. This is a war planned by Anglo American Empire for a long time, and we are seeing it unfolding before our eyes.

The rise of a Muslim Empire over the ashes of the current nations has started in Iraq/Syria under the name of Islamic State.

The Russian Empire will rise over the ashes of Ukraine.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
10,307
Likes
8,631
Country flag
@pmaitra, Ukraine is too sure of itself NOT because of its own strength BUT because of NATO support.

Putin is still trying to negotiate but West is in no mood to negotiate. This makes Putin's position weak.

So Putin will go back to war of attrition. @Akim is correct about a few things. Russia WILL NOT invade at this time. The war will be contained at the level currently seen or somewhat higher level.

The Donbass children will be sent to Russian schools in Southern Russia. The rebel regions are now purely mobilized regions which are in full fledged war mode.

Russia has some genuine problems and West is taking advantage of those problems. Russia will have to change. Russian society needs a long due transformation, and that transformation will come.

Where @Akim is wrong is that none of this is actually benefitting Ukraine. So while Russia is in trouble, Ukraine is in trouble too. This is the short-sightedness of Ukrainians. They are killing themselves to kill Russia.

Russian soldiers are definitely there in Donbass. Russia has been very indecisive in this conflict. Putin has always tried to negotiate and extract himself from the mess. The problem is he is trapped and there is no way out for him.

West is also making a mistake. However West is drunk on its "UNLIMITED" power. West has concluded that its power can not be challenged by anybody. So West takes unilateral actions.

Putin is facing the wrath of Anglo-American empire. UK, Australia, Canada etc. are all components of Anglo-American empire. There is no doubt that the empire is very strong. Now Russia has to prove that it can rise to the challenge.

India must stay away from this game and focus on its own developmental goals.
You sometimes spoke the right words, but there were mistakes. None of the children from the Donbass, in the South of Russia to send will not. In schools and universities massively imported books from Russia. All refugees Russia settle not in the South and in the Crimea, but in Siberia and to the North. You talk as if you were now in Russia is in trouble blame the Anglo-Saxons. However, the United States and all of Europe have long forgotten about Russia. For them, Russia is a big gas station. Now the situation is similar to 91 years, when Iraq occupied Kuwait and he was confronted with the Western coalition.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
Statistics tell the tale: Irreplaceable losses for the Ukrainian economy | SLAVYANGRAD.org

The published results by the Goskomstat (Federal Bureau of Statistics) of changes to the Ukrainian economy during the first half of 2014 can be shocking. But the most important figures in the situation at hand are not the fact that the GDP fell 4.5% , nor even that the gross domestic product is predicted to fall -7% by the end of the year, but the irreplaceable losses concealed by these frigid statistics—the losses that will destroy the actual possibility of a Ukrainian economic recovery in the future.

********

We are speaking primarily about the collapse of the industrial sector, which is accelerating. During the period from January to June, the volumes of industrial production shrank by 5.8%, while July alone brought that sector down by another 12%. The most profound damage was suffered by the coal sector (-28.7%), the automobile production (-23.8%), the chemical manufacture (-22.2%), the oil refining sector (-15.9%), the rubber industry (-13.8%), metallurgy (-12.3%), and furniture production (-12.5%). Clutched by war, the Lugansk and Donetsk regions have lost 56% and 28.5%, respectively, of their industrial potential. The crisis of the component supply from Donbass in turn led to the collapse of the industrial giant of Zaporozhie (ZAZ). This enterprise lowered its production volume by 98.9%, and by October will probably stop all manufacturing, leaving 21,000 workers out of the street.

The industrial potential was also dented by the fall in exports to Russia, which ranged from 25% to 70% over the different sectors. For example, automobile production lost 40% of all exports, metallurgy – 32.6%, agricultural – 37%.

It must be noted that these horrific statistical indicators include the period during which Ukraine had a legitimate government, and economic relationships with Russia were actively developed. With the complete severance of economic ties with the Russian Federation by the Kiev Junta, the pace of industrial collapse will only accelerate.

********


The state of the agricultural sector, for which Kiev has great hopes, is no better. The first quarter of 2014 showed a 3.9% decrease in the volume of agricultural productivity, while the amount of produce fell by 17.6%. The fall in plant production during the six months totaled 30.1%. Grain production (not including corn, as the marketing year for such starts and finishes in September) shrunk by 2.1 times (i.e. more than half), winter and spring wheat – 4.8 times, rye – 27.5 times, grain legumes – 2.3 times, rapeseed – by 36.5%, the collection of fruit and berries – 11.8%, cattle livestock – 3.2%.

Specialists predict an estimated a 10% fall in the gross output of grain, which will lower the export potential by 7%; while Ukrainian agriculture by the end of the year may shrink by 10-15%.

Instead of assuring the country's food security, Ukraine has increased grain export in the second quarter by 89.4% (in comparison to the previous year). And to entirely destroy the agricultural sector, Yatsenyuk's government cancelled taxation subsidies for those agro-industries with a turnover of 20 million hryvnias or more and with an agriculture-land mass of 3 thousand hectares or more. In reality almost 90% of the agro-producers have lost their tax privileges, as small agro-holdings account for only 10-15% of the Ukrainian agriculture, while medium companies hold 60-65%, and 20-25% are the large agro-producers. Taking into the account that the devaluation of the hryvnia, the cost of production resources has automatically increased by 40-50%. It is time to say goodbye to the legend of the "Grainary of Europe" Europe and the industrial sector.

********

The worrying situation in the real economy is leading to a fall in the government budget. The Finance Minister A. Shlapak has stated that the current budget deficit of 30 billion hryvnia ($2.3B) can reach 87 billion hryvnias ($6.6B) by the end of the year. Thus, it can already be said that the country is caught in a stagnationary spiral.

Firstly, government debt is growing with a geometrical progression. While 2013 bought an increase in the public debt (during the first semester) of 11.3%, and the external debt fell by 6.4%; the same period of 2014 presented a 50% increase in public debt and a 65% increase in external debt.

Secondly, Ukraine's international reserves are decreasing rapidly. Despite IMF credits, gold and foreign exchange reserves of Ukraine have shrunk from $20.41 billion to $17.08 billion. Plus, over $10 billion are not gold, nor currency, but debt obligations (read as IOUs) of the NBU (National Bank of Ukraine).

Thirdly, from February the national currency has devalued by 62%. By the end of the year it may reach 15 hryvnia to 1 US dollar. The International rating agency, Fitch, lowered the long-term rating of the default issue of the Ukrainian national currency from B to CCC, or to the "extremely speculative" level.

Fourthly, international investments have fallen. The volume of direct international investment has fallen by 11.9% since the beginning of the year. Leading the decrease are the countries of the EU: Austria decreased direct investment by $404.9 million, Great Britain – by $354.5 million, Netherlands – by $193.8 million, Germany – by $178.4 million, Italy – by $128.2 million.

Consumption, a useful tool in increasing the economic growth during a crisis, is also on the decline. The negative tendencies are further worsened by IMF mandates in regard to lowering public and social spending. Thus, this year Ukrainians have cut their trips abroad by 40%. Imports have fallen by 20-25%, pharmaceutical sales – by 18%. Airlines have lost half their passengers; railroads have seen a 50-70% decrease in freight (depending on the industry). The turnover of Ukraine's retail trade and restaurant business fell by 21.5% (July 2014 compared to July 2013), while the June decrease was 20.9%.

Positive tendencies are not observed. With the backdrop of a 62% loss in the national currency and 12% annual inflation – which lightened the wallets of the population by three-quarters – citizens are not in a mood for shopping. The devaluation of the currency is paralleled by the increase in prices. According to the Finance Ministry: the price of fruit increased by 56%, sugar – by 35%, vegetables – by 28%, pork – by 25%, fish (and fish produce) – by 21%, beef – 10%, bread (and baked goods) – by 30%, pharmaceuticals – by 60%, petrol – by 50%, public transport – by 100% (i.e. doubled in price). The first wave of increases in tariffs will be followed closely by a second. In October, the price for electricity will increase by a further 40%, gas – by 73%, water – by 84%, sanitation – by 105%.

********

The broke and hungry Ukrainians will face another trial – the cold. In connection to the multi-billion gas debt to Russia, the gas supply was terminated in June. Here the conversation is not only about the heating and the hot water supply to the residential sector but a worsening of the economic crisis due to the gas deficit. The decline of 30% in volume of gas utilized occurred because of the closure of whole factories. Gas shortages will soon hit cement, nitrogen, glass, metallurgy and separate segments of the chemical industries. Thus, the initial effects will be felt by a number of basic enterprises (some international) which carry a great social responsibility: "ArcelorMittal Krivoy Rog", "Azot" in Cherkasy, "HaidelbergCement Ukraine", "Dneprazot" and others. Unsurprisingly, this will sharply increase the unemployment level, which may double by the end of the year; reaching 10.2%. This number is only the official statistic. It fails to take into account a shortening of the work week, and forcing the employees into unpaid vacations of unspecified length.

The Ukrainian Department of Energy set limits on the use of natural gas for all consumers; estimating a reduction in the use of natural gas by 30% for the communal and the industrial sectors. In turn, "Kievenergo" announced their plans to use less than half of the gas necessary to heat the capital during winter.

The consumers responded to the government plans of freezing them in their own flats by increasing the demand tenfold for water and space heaters. That will have little effect apart from the increased danger of the electric grid having brownouts (which will in turn lead to a water supply collapse). Russian gas is required to produce electricity, as is the Donetsk coal, which together generate 42.2% of the Ukrainian electricity supply, which in turn powers the domestic heating plants. An increase in electricity production from the nuclear plants is also unrealistic, considering the titanic efforts of the Junta to replace Russian nuclear fuel with American fuel produced by the Westinghouse Company, which is not even suitable for the reactors.

Despite all the efforts to organize a reverse gas flow from Europe, Yatsenyuk was forced to admit that without Russian gas Ukraine would not survive. He went on to state that the government has reserved $3.1 billion to purchase 5 billion cubic meters of the Russian gas. The problem is that as of the August 1st 2014 "Naftogas Ukraine" owns "Gasprom" $5,296 billion, and until some of that is paid the negotiations are stalled.

********

Whilst the international experts are predicting the greatest economic decline in the world for Ukraine, the economies of the countries in the Eurasian Customs Union – despite the sanctions pressure from the EU and US – are showing a positive dynamic.

According to the CIS Interstate Statistical Committee, on the basis of the economic development of the States of the Commonwealth during the first half of the year 2014, there has been a 1.2% increase in the GDP of Belarus, 0.9% – in Russia and a 3.8% growth in Kazakhstan. The rates of growth of the Belarus economy in the second quarter have accelerated due to the increased retail turnover, despite the decrease in industrial manufacturing. Kazakhstan is showing good results throughout: capital investments increased by 5.2%, logistics – by 4.1%, while retail turnover increase by 11.8%.

Failure of industrial cooperation with Russia did not bring benefits to the Ukrainian producers. However, Russian volume of industrial manufacturing has increased by 1.5% – mostly due to a need to replace the Ukrainian imports in the high technology and innovative sectors. In the future the positive effects of the banned imports from Ukrainian military-industries into Russia will only increase. For example, the internal program for developing the strategic nuclear forces no longer plans for the presence of Ukrainian manufacturers. Thus, Russia is now planning to establish domestic production of air-to-air missiles. The manufacture of the helicopter engines will be moved to St. Petersburg, at the factory "Klimov", which, by 2015, should be producing 450 motors yearly; thus, completely replacing the imports from the Ukrainian factory "Motor Sich", located in Zaporozhie.

Russian sanctions on European and American agricultural produce allow for the expectation of continuous growth, not only in the industrial sector but also in agriculture.

Personal income in Russia continues to grow. The average pay cheque in June, was 32,715 rubles ($877), a growth of 9.4% in comparison with June 2013. This is a growth rate that Ukrainians can only dream of.

********

All the Ukrainian attempts to wound Russia have only hurt Ukraine. "Already, even without the use of any measures, our trade turnover with the Customs Union has fallen by 30%" – said Poroshenko, during a meeting in Minsk on the 26th of August. "And in no situation can we allow for a further deterioration in terms of trade." But, the Kiev regime – not with words but with actions – is turning down a possible partnership with Russia and with the other countries of the ECU. It seems that Kiev has declared an economic war -– not on Russia, but on Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.
 

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
You sometimes spoke the right words, but there were mistakes. None of the children from the Donbass, in the South of Russia to send will not. In schools and universities massively imported books from Russia. All refugees Russia settle not in the South and in the Crimea, but in Siberia and to the North. You talk as if you were now in Russia is in trouble blame the Anglo-Saxons. However, the United States and all of Europe have long forgotten about Russia. For them, Russia is a big gas station. Now the situation is similar to 91 years, when Iraq occupied Kuwait and he was confronted with the Western coalition.
You are trying to be smarter than you actually are. This is the problem. You fail to realize that there are smarter people around.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top