Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizations

mayankkrishna

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Please contribute on WWI ! (28 July 1914 - 11 Nov 1918)

How did the science and technology meant for the war, reshaped the Socio-political course of History?

Thanks !!
 

mayankkrishna

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

The Iconic WWI Vehicle That Paved the Way for Modern Cars

World War I was shaped by new vehicles—planes, cars, tanks, zeppelins—that fundamentally changed warfare. The conflict also pushed the development of those technologies and put them through some of the toughest tests imaginable, either proving their worth or forcing their proponents to abandon them for another new idea. One hundred years after the start of the war, we're taking a look back at the most remarkable vehicles of the conflict.

When the First World War began in June 1914, the automobile was in the middle of its awkward teen years. The vehicles had popped up in the hands of the wealthy and early adopters, and Henry Ford had just started mass production of the Model T. But getting around on horseback was still the go-to mode of transportation. The war helped change that.

The skinny-wheel car we're looking at here didn't see front line action, but it was one of the defining vehicles of the combat. The Vauxhall D-Type, or "25hp," which first rolled off the production line in 1915, crossed battlefields on the Western Front (modern Germany, Luxembourg, and Belgium), Egypt, and Russian Empire. It had a 4-cylinder 3,969cc engine that could take five passengers to just over 60 mph.

Reserved for use by military higher-ups, the D-Type offered an appealing alternative to traveling through conflict zones by horse. Back in the day when comparing engine power to horse power was really relevant, 25 hp was a big deal. The animals were likely even more excited: About 8 million horses died in the four years of fighting, and it's safe to assume the 1,500 D-Types produced for the military kept that number from going a bit higher. How the car's bicycle tires made it over roads that barely earned that name, we're still flummoxed, but the its solid chassis and durable engine proved a winning combination. At the insistence of the British war offices, Vauxhall produced up to seven of these vehicles a week.

By 1916, they were cranking out about eight a week, which was just the right number. Armies were careful to avoid over-reliance on machines, which required tools to be on-hand, and which, if they broke down, could immobilize valuable cargo. Horses and ground armies still had their place, and the Vauxhall was used to transport VIPs. (Another British creation of the era, the Mark I tank, had more combat-related duties.) Even in that minor role and with those skinny tires, the car worked. According to Vauxhall literature, a gunner on a D-Type in 1916 said, "The old Vauxhall will go on being bumped, swamped, bogged, and perhaps shelled; but its work is to help win the war, and it does it with a good heart."

One of only two D-Types that survive today, the car pictured here appeared in Steven Spielberg's film War Horse, once drove King George V around northern France, and will take part in centenary commemorations of the war in Britain.







Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/07/world-war-one-automobile/#slide-id-1280741
 

mayankkrishna

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

The Scars of World War I Battlefields a Century Later

A century ago today, on July 28, 1914, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia, marking the beginning of World War I. A month earlier, on June 28, 1914, Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, marking the precusor to the four-year long war in which 10 million soldiers died, and sent Euope hurtling towards the Second World War two decades later.

Today, peaceful landscapes where battlefields once stood, riddled with landmines, corpses, and barbed wire, and wafted over with deadly gas, show the trenches and cratered face of warfare. European nations are commemorating the war all year long, including a procession of giant marionettes through the streets of Liverpool, U.K.




The tombstones of five WWI French soldiers are pictured at Fleury-devant-Douaumont near Verdun, northeastern France, March 30, 2014. The second grave (2ndL) contains the bodies of two brothers, Georges and Pierre Siben. Hundreds of thousands of French and Germany soldiers were killed during the battle of Verdun. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Picture taken March 30, 2014. Charles Platiau/Reuters


WWI shell craters are seen below the Douaumont cemetery with its Abri 320 (Rear C) a large four shelter French bunker system near Verdun, northeastern France, March 30, 2014. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Picture taken March 30, 2014. Charles Platiau/Reuters


General view of WWI trenches and shattered terrain at the Butte de Vauquois, northeastern France, March 30, 2014. By 1916, the Butte de Vauquois had become an important strategic position and on May 14, 1916, the Germans set off 60,000kg of explosives. It created a massive crater that today is some 80m in diameter and approximately 20m deep. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Charles Platiau/Reuters


General view of WWI trenches at Massiges, northeastern France, March 28, 2014. During the World War One, the battlefield between the Champagne and Argonne fronts was taken and lost several times by French and German troops between September 1914 and September 1915. During trench restoration works, in the last two years, the Main de Massiges Association has found seven bodies of WWI soldiers. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Charles Platiau/Reuters


A tree grows in the WWI London trench at Douaumont near Verdun, northeastern France, March 30, 2014. After the recapture of Fort Douaumont and Fort Vaux by French troops in late 1916, this trench was built to join the town of Belleville to Fort Douaumont and the ruined town of Douaumont in order to deliver supplies, relieve troops and for hospital evacuation. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Picture taken March 30, 2014. Charles Platiau/Reuters


WWI shell craters surround Fort Douaumont, near Verdun, northeastern France, March 29, 2014. During the Battle of Verdun, Fort Douaumont which was the largest and highest fort, was captured by German troops on February 25, 1916 with relative ease. It was later recaptured by the French army in October 1916, after major casualties on both sides. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Picture taken March 29, 2014. Charles Platiau/Reuters


The place where the remains of French WWI soldier Albert Dadure was found is seen in a trench at Massiges, northeastern France, March 28, 2014. During trench restoration works, the Main de Massiges Association discovered a piece of the soldier?s skeleton on July 21, 2013, who died at the Massiges Front in 1915. In the last two years, the Association unearthed seven bodies of soldiers. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Picture taken March 28, 2014. Charles Platiau/Reuters
 

mayankkrishna

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat


WWI shell craters surround Fort de Vaux, near Verdun, northeastern France, March 29, 2014. During the Battle of Verdun, the Germans captured Fort Vaux on June 7, 1916 which was recaptured by the French army on November 2, 1916. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Picture taken March 29, 2014. Charles Platiau/Reuters


Inside view of a WWI trench at Massiges, northeastern France, March 28, 2014. During the World War One, the battlefield between the Champagne and Argonne fronts was taken and lost several times by French and German troops between September 1914 and September 1915. During trench restoration works, in the last two years, the Main de Massiges Association has found seven bodies of WWI soldiers. The year 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. Picture taken March 28, 2014. Charles Platiau/Reuters
 

ITBP

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

@mayankkrishna

Thanks for posting.

Yes, WW1, it is 100th anniversary.

I am feeling nostalgic.
@Cadian, @Verdane, @methos, @Meriv90, @HMS Astute, @Armand2REP, @hallowene

Why Italy betrayed Germany???

:mad: :tsk:

If Japan had sided with Germany, we would have seen the out come of WW2 on de-colonization.

And Allies prohibited Austria from reuniting with Germany. :tsk:

And 1 must not forget the great war poems written by English poets in trench.

Germans indeed showed great signs of valour.

But Russia started the war, had not they mobilized troops to support Serbia, Germany would not feel scared. Germany had no option apart from helping Austria-Hungary. And it meant French attack on Germany as France and Russia were friends. So Germany too was forced to launch a preemptive strike on French.

And we Indians tried to use this opportunity for our freedom movement as much as possible.

Hindu–German Conspiracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1915 Singapore Mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ghadar Mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Respect to Ras Bihari Bose and Bagha Jatin. :salute: :india:
 
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Ray

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

DULCE ET DECORUM EST(1)

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares(2) we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest(3) began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots(4)
Of tired, outstripped(5) Five-Nines(6) that dropped behind.
Gas!(7) Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets(8) just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime(9) . . .
Dim, through the misty panes(10) and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering,(11) choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud(12)
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest(13)
To children ardent(14) for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.(15)

Wilfred Owen
Thought to have been written between 8 October 1917 and March, 1918



@ITBP

Very anti British and the 'imperialist' war.

Hope that makes you happy! :pound:

Dulce et Decorum est, Pro patria mori. It means it is sweet and right to die for your country. In other words, it is a wonderful and great honour to fight and die for your country.

Bas Bihari Bose
Who is Bas Bihari Bose that you mention?
 
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Meriv90

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

Why Italy betrayed Germany???
Gonna try to explain the situation since it is vital, i don't know your education level, but what happened in italy is what brought to life Fascism first and followed by the Nazism.

First it wasn't a betray since the pact was for mutual defence, but as you might know it was Austria that declared war to Serbia in consequence we were liberated from all diplomatic obligation in respect of the central powers.

We were the first to push for the defensive pact, because France was hard pushing and just took Tunisia months before we italians did any move, with time passing Germany become the main supporter for the pact to balance French power ( Take in consideration that Austria,Italy and Germany weren't colonial powers)

Now another thing to take in consideration,
60 years before WW1 we started our indepence wars (even if the correct term would be unification)
We fought against the Austrian-Hungaric For the north of Italy
In the south against the Spanish
For the middle we had to fight with the State of the Church that was defended by the French

The main enemy was the Austrians we fought against them 3 times, 4 times if you include the WW1
The first indepence war we tried to liberate the north of italy but we lost,
For the second war we exchange Nice and the Savoy to France in exchange of military aid, we will win this war liberating part of the north of italy (Venice was still under Austrian control). We fought the battle of Solferino, the biggest battle after Leipzig. Battle of Solferino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The third war against them was fought over Venice region, we won but still a lot of italian territory is under the Ausburgic Crown. Here a map of Venice possessions, not taking in account the Aegean and other Mediterranean possessions, this was Venetian core land with the people mainly speaking Italian

Here one in the maximun espansion, while we were fighting the Ottomans and the muslim advance in the Mediterranean


Soo lets get back to WW1, it has already started, Italy was in the middle of a Economic boom, we are in full industrialisation process. So two different parties forms.
1-The Interventionist
2-The non interventionist- Neutral (Benito Mussolini at the beginning was an anti-interventionist)

What was put on the table? Austria promised us Trieste, Istria and the Dalmatian coast, in exchange of staying neutral. Same promise was done to us by UK but in exchange of intervention.

Obviously as you can imagine the Austrian propose is the best one, no one dies and we get our old territory, we keep going with the industrialisation while selling to both of the parties. But this proposal isn't well viewed by Austrian high spheres, and it is a mere illusion since if the central powers defeatFrance and UK nothing would have stopped them to get back what the Austrian lost 60 years before. So we had no choice than to enter in the war against Austria.

So we enter in war against the central powers in the norther region of italy, we mobilised 5 million soldiers against the 8 millions from the central power, we won our conflict on our side when the 28 october the Austrian ask for peace(signed on the 1 november) meanwhile French front will capitulate on the 7 november.
We loose 3,49% of our population against
the 2.2% of UK
the 4,39% of France
the 4,29% of Germany
the 4.00% of Austria

Plus we dot fight in the plains as in French front or Russian one, Italians and Austrians fights on the Alps, we don't charge in plain terrain we have to charge in mountains, uphill with the Austrian or italian (depending who is advancing) having the high position, and if the others suffered the cold in the winter imagine this soldiers with ww1 equipment at 2000mts.


What we get from all of this sacrifice? Almost nothing, British decide to create Yugoslavia (amazing choice again, we saw the result in the balkan wars), and give them the territories promised to italy, this create a big resentment in the Army, we call it the mutilated victory that will create the fascism from which Hitler will get inspired (so say thanks to the english)
The Red line is what we were promised and green one is what we got. Yellow is the actual one (plus after ww2 croatians to affirm their territory carry this Foibe killings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


P.S. And not only we didn't get what we were promised we also have to hear constantly "why italy betrayed Germany" or in some cases it is like austrian and italians haven't fought at all ww1, US intervention has a lot more weight than us, even if their contribution was almost null. Imagine what would have happened if that 8 millions after Russian capitulation would have reinforced the French front.
 
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ITBP

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

@Meriv90

Thanks for replying. I found European History more interesting than my own specially in modern era.

Any way on topic-

France still retains Corsica, Nice and Savoy- What about this?

If Italy had joined Germany, then France and UK who were struggling to hold back Germans, would have to fight another war in Southern France, meaning less Allied troops in Northern France against Germans, Allies lost- and then from From France you could have captured Savoy, Nice and Corsica from mainland France and Algeria, Tunis, French Somaliland from French Somaliland.

From Britain Malta, Egypt(if possible) and British Somaliland.

So as we see, Italians would not be betrayed if they had joined Germany.

After all Germans greatly helped in Italian unification.

I think Germany lost WW1 because they supported Austria over Russia. Kaiser Wilhelm 1 should have supported russia. Austria-Hungary was a weak state because of internal ethnic conflict, mean while Russia was strong.

Bismarck should have captured Austria's German speaking areas in 1867, and make Hungary leader of Habsburg empire as Austria was. Now new Habsburg empire with Hungary as leader would be weak, then Germany would support Russia on Balkan issue. And it means no threat from Russia on eastern border, so Germany would be able to attack West Europe with full strength and we know what would have been result.

Thus Germany a victor of WW1.

Btw Italy helped Germany in WW2, still not much help, it was more like a burden. Romania too changed side. :why: :nono:

What pisses me off that is Allies prohibited Germany and Austria from uniting in 1919. :tsk: :mad: But Austrians are still Germans and will be as long as multiculturalism destroys Europe.
 
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apple

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

P.S. And not only we didn't get what we were promised we also have to hear constantly "why italy betrayed Germany" or in some cases it is like austrian and italians haven't fought at all ww1, US intervention has a lot more weight than us, even if their contribution was almost null. Imagine what would have happened if that 8 millions after Russian capitulation would have reinforced the French front.
Thanks for the lengthy post. Never really understood the War of Italian unifaction before.

Is, relatively, little information on Italy in WW1 written in English. That's always annoyed me, particularly as I think it was the Austro- Hungarian surrender that ended the war and have tried to find out more about what happened after the A-H army collapsed. You've got a point about Yugoslavia, but you did get the southern Tyrol.
 
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nrupatunga

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

Why 2014 looks eerily like 1914
This year the world will commemorate the centenary of one of the most cataclysmic events of the last century -- the First World War which was fought from 1914 to 1918. Most historians agree that the Second World War, that was fought between 1939 to 1945, was essentially a continuation of the struggle that began in 1914.

But remember that war is not merely for indulgence in nostalgia as the world today looks increasingly like it did a century ago. Deeper analysis of the events of 1914 can offer us useful insights into coping with the multiple crises the world faces today.

In terms of sheer slaughter of soldiers, the battles of that war have few parallels. The battle of Verdun in 1916 that lasted 10 months cost 535,000 casualties to the French and 427,000 to the Germans, totalling almost a million men to become history's bloodiest single battle.

Militarily, WWI has very few lessons. The military on both sides engaged in competitive slaughter. Repeated artillery bombardments followed by futile infantry attacks were the order of the day. The First World War offers an example of how not to fight wars. But in terms of impact on world politics, it indeed was a turning point.

The war destroyed the flower of youth of an entire generation of Europe and marks the end of Europe's hegemony which began with the Industrial Revolution in the previous century.

This war also laid the foundation of the rise of the United States of America as the world's pre-eminent economic and military power. It also began the process to end European colonialism in Asia and Africa though it took almost another 50 odd years and one more war for it to take effect.

The parallels between the international situation in 1914 and 2014 are striking. The rise of multi-polarity in place of the duo-polar balance of the Cold War era, the crumbling of American and Russian hegemony, the rise of powerful terrorist groups, ferment in the Middle East and the rise of a new world power in China are some of the characteristics of the present era. These closely mirror the world of 1914.

The rise of the powerful German State challenging the Anglo-French domination of Asia and Africa is regarded as a major cause of that conflict. The Austro-Hungarian and Turkish empires were crumbling and there was a scramble for the spoils. The competition for colonies and Germany's quest for lebensraum (Living Space) for its growing population brought it in conflict with the existing old colonial powers like Britain, France and Russia.

The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire by a Serbian nationalist on June 28, 1914 at Sarajevo triggered a crisis that led eventually to war. Exactly a month later, on July 28, the Austro-Hungarian Empire invaded Serbia (an ally of Russia) and war began.

On one side were the central powers led by Germany and consisted of the Austro-Hungarian empire, Bulgaria and Turkey while the on the Allies side were Russia, France, the British Empire, Italy and Japan. The US joined in later. The war lasted till November 11, 1918. The allies suffered close to 5 million casualties while the central powers lost 3 million soldiers.

The Indian Army played a significant role with 1 million soldiers serving overseas. India lost 74,000 soldiers and their names are inscribed on the war memorial at New Delhi's India Gate.

The war shattered the peace that had more or less prevailed since the 1815 Congress of Vienna that ended the Napoleonic wars. Once Germany's initial offensive into France was halted, the war in the west was bogged down to the trenches.

First, one side, then the other, tried to break through the opponent's lines, with neither side succeeding. Rows after rows of trenches, protected by barbed wire protected the defender. Murderous machine gun and rapid rifle fire mowed down row after row of attacking infantry. War had turned into a meat grinder.

At the end of the war, the victors realised that they had suffered more than even the vanquished Germans. The rise of Adolf Hitler's Germany within a mere 20 years showed that the First World War had failed to achieve its primary aim of checking Germany's rise. The slaughter of war shattered Europe's self confidence and emboldened the populations in the colonies to question European superiority and their right to rule.

In India, demobilised soldiers were in the forefront of unrest in Punjab that led to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre which shook the moral foundations of British rule in India.

In the immediate aftermath of the war, many European leaders were left wondering how they had 'stumbled' into a war that had such devastating consequences and achieved so little. In plain terms, the First World War could well be called 'an accidental war', a war that nobody wanted.

It is this aspect that merits serious consideration in 2014 as many of the factors and situations prevailing today bear an uncanny resemblance to those fateful months a hundred years ago.

Once the anarchists Serbian nationalists triggered the Balkan crisis, the Germans faced a dilemma. With the Franco-Russian alliance in place, they faced the prospect of a two front war. The only way out of this strategic dilemma (which Hitler also faced in 1939) was to take advantage of the fact that the Russian system of mobilisation was cumbersome and time consuming.

This gave Germany sufficient time to attack in the west, neutralise France and then turn it forces around to face the Russians in the east.

Thus, once the Russians decided to stand by their Serbian allies, an attack on France was the only 'survival' strategy for the Germans. For Russia and France, checking Germany in the Balkans was necessary to contain German expansion in Eastern Europe as well as its demand for colonies in Africa.

A compromise or delay was fatal for both sides. This interlocking of rigid plans made compromise impossible and war the least unacceptable outcome. The interaction between the central powers and the allies had been reduced to a zero sum game where the loss of one side equalled the gain of the other.

The First and Second World War combined had one major impact on the world; it virtually ended the European colonial expansion in Asia and Africa. Even the European migration to the US slowed down after these events as Europe itself was emptied out of its human resources. Close to nearly 10 million soldiers died in these wars.

This led to the ending of the population explosion of Europe that had been going on since the 18th century. Europe's population doubled between 1750 to 1800 and went up four fold by 1900. This expanding population armed with modern firearms spread to the Americas, Australia and Asia.

In this process Europeans destroyed the natives of North America and overwhelmed those in South America. Thanks to the massacre of European males on such massive scale in the World Wars, Asia and Africa survived. Another consequence of the decimation of the male population of Europe was that European women, long treated as a 'commodity', came into their own post these wars. India and China owe their survival and later rise to this event more than any other reason.

Cut to the present. We have a rising power in China and the crumbling Russian and American empires. There are whackos groups galore, Sunni extremists under the new Caliphate in Iraq and Syria, the Jamat-ud Dawa in Pakistan, the Taliban waiting in the wings in Af-Pak et al.

A rising China is taking on countries to its east and west, laying claims to islands and whole states (Arunachal Pradesh in India). There are crises in Europe-Russia due to the attempts to restore the Russian Empire.

In the Middle East, the artificial States created by the colonial powers after WWI are crumbling with the subtext of the ancient Shia-Sunni conflict. It seems that like the Europeans during WWI, the Arab and Islamic world is intent on self destruction.

India, a home to one-fifth of humanity, cannot be immune to the effects of events elsewhere. The rise in oil prices being the most direct linkage. But even more worrisome is that non-State actors in Pakistan can fish in troubled waters and launch a repeat of the November 26, 2008 attack on Mumbai.

Thanks to the reckless Cold War strategies of the US and China, the world's most violent, unstable and economically bankrupt country, Pakistan, is bristling with nuclear weapons. The external situation for India is indeed grim.

It is time India steps up to lead the move towards sanity in cooperation with others who have a stake in the survival of the world. The quicker the world recognises that the days of a sole (pretentious) superpower with a leader who spouts liberal rhetoric but practises crass immorality are over, the better it will be.

If the world is to avoid a repeat of Verdun with nuclear weapons, a Cold War era-like stability has to be created in the world with competition replacing conflict and a non-zero sum model for relationship between the major powers.

The first step to avoid an 'unintended' conflagration is to have a global agreement on curbing the non-State actors worldwide. India can and should play a major role in this endeavour along with Germany, Japan and France.
As things stand now, neither gaza/iraq/syria/ukraine can ignite a global war. Am not sure whether it can even ignite a regional war. West asia should have seen conventional war by now instead high intensity guriella warfare happening thats it.

But on a geopolitical stage, WW-I began the end of europe as a global power, it looks like 2014 maybe the entire west itself is loosing power. So yes, some sort of a vaccum is in the making, will it be china which becomes numero uno or not is to be seen.
 

Meriv90

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

@Meriv90

Thanks for replying. I found European History more interesting than my own specially in modern era.

Any way on topic-

France still retains Corsica, Nice and Savoy- What about this?

If Italy had joined Germany, then France and UK who were struggling to hold back Germans, would have to fight another war in Southern France, meaning less Allied troops in Northern France against Germans, Allies lost- and then from From France you could have captured Savoy, Nice and Corsica from mainland France and Algeria, Tunis, French Somaliland from French Somaliland.

From Britain Malta, Egypt(if possible) and British Somaliland.

So as we see, Italians would not be betrayed if they had joined Germany.

After all Germans greatly helped in Italian unification.

I think Germany lost WW1 because they supported Austria over Russia. Kaiser Wilhelm 1 should have supported russia. Austria-Hungary was a weak state because of internal ethnic conflict, mean while Russia was strong.

Bismarck should have captured Austria's German speaking areas in 1867, and make Hungary leader of Habsburg empire as Austria was. Now new Habsburg empire with Hungary as leader would be weak, then Germany would support Russia on Balkan issue. And it means no threat from Russia on eastern border, so Germany would be able to attack West Europe with full strength and we know what would have been result.

Thus Germany a victor of WW1.

Btw Italy helped Germany in WW2, still not much help, it was more like a burden. Romania too changed side. :why: :nono:

What pisses me off that is Allies prohibited Germany and Austria from uniting in 1919. :tsk: :mad: But Austrians are still Germans and will be as long as multiculturalism destroys Europe.
You probably didn't understood our reasons to enter in war, as i wrote not entering in war would have meant almost a sure loose fore the allied side, as you say if we entered with the central powers france would have been literally levelled, but what would have happened? probably there wouldn't have been so many deaths as we did as a consequence of the prolonged conflict, being it a decise victory.

First, France didn't conquer Corsica/Savoy/Nice we "sold" them to France that is difference from the occupation by the Austrians.

Second, what do you think would have happened as soon as we won against France and Allied powers? To which country the Austrohungaric empire would have set its sights? the one that fought already 4 wars against it in the last 60 years. It was Italy and without the allied powers it would have been our time to be levelled by the Central powers.
 
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ITBP

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

You probably didn't understood our reasons to enter in war, as i wrote not entering in war would have meant almost a sure loose fore the allied side, as you say if we entered with the central powers france would have been literally levelled, but what would have happened? probably there wouldn't have been so many deaths as we did as a consequence of the prolonged conflict, being it a decise victory.
Then It would be better.

First, France didn't conquer Corsica/Savoy/Nice we "sold" them to France that is difference from the occupation by the Austrians.
Corsica was under Genoa later French captured it by force after a war, as for Savoy and Nice they were offered by Count Cavour to France if France helps Sardinia-Piedmont against Austria in later 1850's. The condition was French to expel all Austrians from italy, but France did not fulfill this, they stopped war in middle but did not hesitate to take Savoy and Nice. So hence France dd not fulfill promice so they should not have taken Savoy and Nice.

Second, what do you think would have happened as soon as we won against France and Allied powers? To which country the Austrohungaric empire would have set its sights? the one that fought already 4 wars against it in the last 60 years. It was Italy and without the allied powers it would have been our time to be levelled by the Central powers.
Austria-Hungary's aim was in Balkan issue, little to do with Italy's interest. Italy's interest was in mediterranean sea.
 

Meriv90

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

Austria-Hungary's aim was in Balkan issue, little to do with Italy's interest. Italy's interest was in mediterranean sea.
Yep presence(possession) for the last 500 years of germanics (from the Holy empire to the Austrohungaric empire)in the north Italy means nothing.

To better explain myself here, an Austrian Hero Joseph Radetzky von Radetz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AS soon as the central powers would have eliminated France the next country would have been Italy.

The fact that to demonstrate that we betrayed you are assuming that we sacrificed 1,2 million people for nothing is offensive. That we fought a useless war since the Central powers promised the same territory by not entering in war at all.
Corsica was under Genoa later French captured it by force after a war, as for Savoy and Nice they were offered by Count Cavour to France if France helps Sardinia-Piedmont against Austria in later 1850's. The condition was French to expel all Austrians from italy, but France did not fulfill this, they stopped war in middle but did not hesitate to take Savoy and Nice. So hence France dd not fulfill promice so they should not have taken Savoy and Nice.
French didn't capture Corsica with force, Genova used Corsica to pay back a debt it had for a military intervention of French troops to stop a rebellion in the island. It is called Treaty of Versailles.
 

ITBP

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

Yep presence(possession) for the last 500 years of germanics (from the Holy empire to the Austrohungaric empire)in the north Italy means nothing.

To better explain myself here, an Austrian Hero Joseph Radetzky von Radetz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AS soon as the central powers would have eliminated France the next country would have been Italy.

The fact that to demonstrate that we betrayed you are assuming that we sacrificed 1,2 million people for nothing is offensive. That we fought a useless war since the Central powers promised the same territory by not entering in war at all.
Austrian presence in Northern Italy was matter of past. Additionally Italians too were divided between themselves. For example Sicily and Naples. As of WW1's time, France posed more problem against Italy as Italy needed few more colonies.

You cant say for sure Central powers would have destroyed Italy after finishing France.There were still Russia and Britain. And Austro-Hungarian troops fared badly against Serbia. Germany would not allow Austria-Hungary to attack Italy, I think.

Whether Central would attack Italy after finishing France or not, it is uncertain. And matter of friction. But Italy was basically betrayed by Allied powers after WW1.

French didn't capture Corsica with force, Genova used Corsica to pay back a debt it had for a military intervention of French troops to stop a rebellion in the island. It is called Treaty of Versailles.
There was a revolt going on in Corsica against Genoa's rule, Genoa could not put it down, so they rather than seeing a free Corsica republic they sold it to France ignoring Corsican people's wish, later French quelled rebellion. In fact Napoleon in his first age dreamt of a free Corsica,
 

Meriv90

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Re: Remembering 100 years of World War I - Turning Point for Civilizat

No more posts from me, since you think Russia just after a revolution would have been able to contrast a Europe under Central powers domain, don't consider England since we are speaking of WW1 tech, no RAF no Bombings nor Battle of England, and most of it no US coming in aid. Do you know how marine assault went in WW1? read about Gallipoli....

You just want to prove your point, thinking that you have better decision making than people that lived in that years, that knew the situation and the territory ,not writing from another continent. Plus being heads of state in place of forum posters like us both.
 

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