Civil war in Ukraine

[Akim]

The funding and a numbers of weapons are coming from the West.

What weapons were delivered from the West in Ukraine?

 

[Akim]

You are trying to be smarter than you actually are. This is the problem. You fail to realize that there are smarter people around.

You really know little about our situation, because you don't know the language

 

[Razor]

Now the situation is similar to 91 years, when Iraq occupied Kuwait and he was confronted with the Western coalition.

Have you ever wondered why Saddam Hussein who was allied to the US supposedly attacked Kuwait ?

Yes, Hussein asked implicit permission from the US to attack Kuwait and he got a positive response from the US. A green signal. (If you want details about this you can search online or ask me to pm, don't want to derail this thread with Iraq.)

Many of the so called atrocities committed by Hussein's troops were forgeries propagated by American politicians with the help of the American Media, so as to get support of people for war.

The situation isn't very different now. False claim after false claim are made to vilify Russia and Putin to create negative public opinion about Russia among the masses.

 

[Razor]

Ukraine scraps human rights treaty for rebel areas, cuts services, freezes banks

Kiev has suspended the protection of human rights and ordered the withdrawal of its institutions from areas controlled by local militia in the nation's east. Rebels have branded the decree, which hits the population on winter's eve, an 'act of genocide.'

The move was prepared by the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council last week and enacted by a presidential decree signed on Friday. It has yet to be ratified by the newly-elected parliament, but the decree explicitly says that this procedure must be expedited – so there is little doubt that the new governing coalition will adopt it next week.

The real intentions of the America-backed Kievan thugs are now clear: Genocide rather than trying to integrate the region back into Ukr

In practical terms, the decree orders that many social and economic ties with the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics be severed. Kiev will withdraw all its officials and evacuate its offices in rebel-held areas. The order covers all public services, including crucial ones, such as schools, hospitals, and emergency services.

The same measure is applied to all state-owned companies and their employees and to prisoners serving terms in the affected parts of Ukraine.

The Ukrainian central bank has been ordered to stop servicing all banks operating in the rebel-held areas. The accounts of individuals living there and companies located there have been frozen. This will stifle the local economy, as businesses will have to conduct transactions in cash or use a bartering system.

Does this mean they are defacto accepting the independence of Donbass ?

Local heating and power plants will be subjected to a "special procedure for accounting supplies of fuel" to ensure that their debt will not grow. This potentially could involve cutting supplies altogether to the plants that don't pay.

Ukraine's decision to halt subsidies to rebel-held areas may be understandable. However, the problem of standing debts in Ukraine's energy sector has a long history, as energy companies have been for years failing to collect payments from consumers, and as a result pay for fuel supply.

The debt burden has been a de facto social subsidy by the government – and a practice which the International Monetary Fund wants eradicated as a condition for further loans to Ukraine. For people in eastern Ukraine who may be left with no heat in the middle of winter, it's an issue of survival rather than economic effeciency.

Ceasefire imperiled

President Petro Poroshenko's decree also repeals a Ukrainian law which provided special status for the rebel-held areas. The law was adopted by Kiev to deliver on its promises under the ceasefire it negotiated with the rebels in Minsk in September.

Poroshenko threatened to repeal the law after the self-proclaimed republics held elections on November 2 in defiance of Kiev's order not to do so.

The new measures, while apparently in line with rebels' desire to be independent from Kiev, have been harshly criticized by them.

Source: Ukraine scraps human rights treaty for rebel areas, cuts services, freezes banks — RT News

 

[pmaitra]

Have you ever wondered why Saddam Hussein who was allied to the US supposedly attacked Kuwait ?

Yes, Hussein asked implicit permission from the US to attack Kuwait and he got a positive response from the US. A green signal. (If you want details about this you can search online or ask me to pm, don't want to derail this thread with Iraq.)

Many of the so called atrocities committed by Hussein's troops were forgeries propagated by American politicians with the help of the American Media, so as to get support of people for war.

The situation isn't very different now. False claim after false claim are made to vilify Russia and Putin to create negative public opinion about Russia among the masses.

Oh yes, they got a model posing as a "Kuwaiti" who testified that Iraqi troops were placing babies out of the incubator, and all kinds of hogwash.

They did the same thing. They got a model, and an ad agency, to shoot that "I am Ukrainian" video.

Such cheap tactics won't work forever. The world isn't that stupid, and given the credibility of the western press, even if they speak the truth, people struggle to trust them.

I am sure the Dutch investigators are under immense pressure, and threats, not to reveal their true conclusions.

 

[Razor]

Oh yes, they got a model posing as a "Kuwaiti" who testified that Iraqi troops were placing babies out of the incubator, and all kinds of hogwash.

They did the same thing. They got a model, and an ad agency, to shoot that "I am Ukrainian" video.

Such cheap tactics won't work forever. The world isn't that stupid, and given the credibility of the western press, even if they speak the truth, people struggle to trust them.

I am sure the Dutch investigators are under immense pressure, and threats, not to reveal their true conclusions.

Oh they can go lower than that when they want to send subtle messages to the public to create negative impressions.

For example "Disputin Putin" Burgers. Big Bad Vlad etc doing rounds in some places in Australia (G20 summit.)

 

[pmaitra]

@Razor, Australia never had any class. The same thing can be said about the US, when they bandied "freedom fries," to ridicule the French, the very country they took help from during the Independence War.

 

[sgarg]

What weapons were delivered from the West in Ukraine?

Defense Minister: Western Weapons on Way to Ukraine

KYIV—
Ukraine's Defense Minister Valeriy Heletey said Sunday weapons are on the way to Ukraine from Western countries - which he would not name - to help the country in its fight against Russian-backed rebels.

News dated September 14, 2014

 

[sgarg]

You really know little about our situation, because you don't know the language

My opinion is you know little about the situation despite you speak the language.

 

[sgarg]

@sgarg,

I don't think Russian soldiers are in E. Ukraine. Volunteers are, no doubt.

Let's say a man was in the Indian Army, but is retired, and then on his own volition, goes to fight the ISIS, would you say Indian soldiers are in Iraq? No.

Russia is helping the militia with weapons. There are volunteers from Russia. But Russian soldiers? No. There is none.

You also need to understand that Russia has conscription. So, even a civilian who had been a conscript is a trained soldier.

In my dictionary, a military operative on the payroll of a government is a soldier. For example, I consider "Blackwater" as US military as US pays for this organization.

I consider all Ukr militia fighting in Ukraine as Ukrainian soldier.

Similarly I consider BSF as Indian soldiers.

It is a question of using the correct term and ensuring human dignity.

 

[sgarg]

The irony of today's world is endless hidden wars being fought. Countless people are dying in these hidden wars. The soldiers who die in such wars get no honour or dignity.

As I said earlier, that the events in Ukraine were too sudden for Russia. Russia was unprepared. It is not that Russia did not know the problems but the timing was not anticipated.

Russia obviously did not want this war. This is a war thrust upon Russia. Theoretically Russia can let Ukraine become part of EU and NATO. Practically it will cause a revolution in Russia itself. Ukraine and Russia are conjoined twins in a sense.

 

[Akim]

Have you ever wondered why Saddam Hussein who was allied to the US supposedly attacked Kuwait ?

Yes, Hussein asked implicit permission from the US to attack Kuwait and he got a positive response from the US. A green signal. (If you want details about this you can search online or ask me to pm, don't want to derail this thread with Iraq.)

Many of the so called atrocities committed by Hussein's troops were forgeries propagated by American politicians with the help of the American Media, so as to get support of people for war.

The situation isn't very different now. False claim after false claim are made to vilify Russia and Putin to create negative public opinion about Russia among the masses.

He occupied Kuwait only for economic reasons.

 

[Akim]

Defense Minister: Western Weapons on Way to Ukraine



News dated September 14, 2014

I asked a specific question - WHAT? You don't know, but you think that a big expert. The imagers, laser rangefinders made, the collimators are also considered weapons. Not a lethal weapon.

 

[Akim]

My opinion is you know little about the situation despite you speak the language.

You are mistaken.

 

[pmaitra]

Psychological projection

For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.
According to some research, the projection of one's negative qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.

Source: Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• Why does the west constantly compare Putin with Hitler? To hide their own complicity with the Ukro-Nazis!
• Why does the west constantly link Putin with the MH17 crash? To deflect from the possibility that their puppet regime in Kiev did that.
• Why does the west constantly accuse Putin of being aggressive? To deflect from the west's constant provocation and warmongering the world over.

Is the bluff working? Read this article below:
[HR][/HR]

Putin is Sticking It to the Neo-cons - That's Why They Are Attacking Him

• Neo-cons want a weak, compliant Russia to advance their pro-Israeli foreign policy
• The one man in their way is the President of Russia

The continuing attacks on Vladimir Putin and Russia by members of the western political, military and journalistic elite tell us one thing – the Russian President is doing a good job both for the people of his country and in the international arena.

For it is a rule which invariably holds true – if the Western elites praise the leader of a foreign country it means he is doing something which is good for those elites and bad for his country. If he's demonized, as Putin is, it's the other way round.

The latest attack has come from Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The US Army general said that Russia was "pushing on the limits of international order."

Dempsey talked of the need to "deter Russian aggression against our NATO allies" – and said that Russia had "kind of lit a fire of nationalism."

"Once you light that fire, it's not controllable," the General said. "I am worried about Europe."

It's worth reflecting on Dempsey's words as they provide a classic example of what psychologists call 'projection'. The US General was accusing Russia of what his own country has been guilty of.



'Pushing on the limits of international order'? Was it Russia which launched an illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 – claiming the country possessed WMDs which threatened the world? Was it Russia which led the illegal bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999? The US hasn't just pushed the 'limits of international order' it has been the number one international law breaker over the past twenty years.

'Russian aggression against our NATO allies'? Not one NATO country has been attacked by Russia – or threatened with attack. The aggression has been from the US against Russian allies. Over the last twenty or so years we have seen the US target a series of countries which had friendly links to Russia, including Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya and Syria. It's the US and its NATO allies who clearly need to be deterred, not Russia.

Back in 2000, when he was first elected President, Western elites hoped that Putin would continue the path set by his predecessor Boris Yeltsin, a man whose rule was disastrous for ordinary Russians, who saw their living standards plummet and the value of their life savings destroyed, but very good for the Western elites. Yeltsin privatized vast swathes of the economy and acquiesced while NATO destroyed Yugoslavia. Yeltsin was bad news for Russia – but he was hailed as a great 'democrat' by the West – and eulogized on his death – which tells us everything we need to know about who benefited most from his rule.

Rebuilding the economy and improving living standards for ordinary Russians inevitably meant action being taken against certain oligarchs who had made vast fortunes in the Yeltsin years. These oligarchs, such as Boris Berezovksy and Mikhail Khodorkovsky had some powerful supporters, in the West. As I detailed in an article for the New Statesman in November 2003 – influential neocons in Washington who had links to Russian oligarchs, used the arrest of Khodorkovsky for fraud and tax evasion to push for a hardening of US policy towards Moscow.

In 2008, Putin, now firmly established as a NeoCon hate figure, angered the endless war lobby still further by standing up to aggression by the US client state of Georgia against the people of South Ossetia. The importance of what happened in Georgia in 2008 cannot be understated. It was as Seumas Milne notes in his book The Revenge of History "one of two events in 2008 which signalled the end of the New World Order of unchallenged US global and economic power" ( the other was the banking crash). "The former Soviet Republic (Georgia) was a particular favorite of Washington's neoconservatives" says Milne. "Its forces, armed and trained by the US and Israel, made up the third-largest contingent in the occupation of Iraq"¦..The short-lived Russian-Georgian conflict marked an international turning point"¦.. Russia had called a halt to a relentless process of US expansion."

The neocon plan is for the Russian economy to be weakened by sanctions, which they hope will lead to a reduction in support for Putin and make it easier for them to destabilize the country and bring about a 'regime change' in Moscow. They want a compliant stooge in the Kremlin who will surrender all of Russia's natural resources, and allow them to get rid of President Assad and the Baathists in Syria – an essential prerequisite before any attack on Iran.

At the moment one man is getting in the way of those war plans.

To repeat: "those on the centre-left who have joined the current wave of Putin-bashing ought to consider whose cause they are serving."

Because Putin is not the problem – it's the people attacking him who are.

 

[sgarg]

I asked a specific question - WHAT? You don't know, but you think that a big expert. The imagers, laser rangefinders made, the collimators are also considered weapons. Not a lethal weapon.

I do not have to reply to your specific questions. It is not necessary that the exact nature of weapons supplied will be declared.
The parts of weapons are also weapons. Anything that increases the accuracy of weapons is very much military assistance.

I doubt your defence minister will make a statement for non-lethal weapons.

You asked for evidence, I gave you evidence available in a public source. You probably did not know even the existence of such news item. And you claim to know everything.

 

[Akim]

I do not have to reply to your specific questions. It is not necessary that the exact nature of weapons supplied will be declared.
The parts of weapons are also weapons. Anything that increases the accuracy of weapons is very much military assistance.

I doubt your defence minister will make a statement for non-lethal weapons.

You asked for evidence, I gave you evidence available in a public source. You probably did not know even the existence of such news item. And you claim to know everything.

I would not answer.

 

[спецназ]

T64 BULAT captured

T64 BULAT destroyed

New Ukie BTR 3E1 destroyed

Ukie BMP2 getting hit

 

[jouni]

The irony of today's world is endless hidden wars being fought. Countless people are dying in these hidden wars. The soldiers who die in such wars get no honour or dignity.

As I said earlier, that the events in Ukraine were too sudden for Russia. Russia was unprepared. It is not that Russia did not know the problems but the timing was not anticipated.

Russia obviously did not want this war. This is a war thrust upon Russia. Theoretically Russia can let Ukraine become part of EU and NATO. Practically it will cause a revolution in Russia itself. Ukraine and Russia are conjoined twins in a sense.

Yes, Free democratic and developing Ukraine will be a role model for Russia to follow in the coming decades. Based on its people, size and natural resources Russia should be one of the leading countries in the world. Only thing stopping has been constant weak and bad regimes.

 

[Razor]

Hey Jouni, you starting an early Monday at your job here eh

Yes, Free democratic and developing Ukraine will be a role model for Russia to follow in the coming decades. Based on its people, size and natural resources Russia should be one of the leading countries in the world. Only thing stopping has been constant weak and bad regimes.

Last sentence should read more like: Only thing stopping Russia is the constant meddling of Western powers in Russia's affairs (for over a century), destabilizing and nearly disintegrating Russia each time; not to mention the enormous loss of human life caused by Western nations, thanks to spreading democrazy and fake liberal values. :thumb: