Civil war in Ukraine

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sgarg

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How do you know?
You can also know what I know IF you look beyond propaganda sources.

Right now there is a war and the facts are being hidden. Ukraine is no free nation. Ukraine has one of the worst internal security apparatus.
Try speaking against Poroshenko and then tell me what happened to you.
 

sgarg

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Interesting find. Most likely it is CGI as even the Russians has not claimed that Ukraine used SU27 in shooting down MH17 (according to Russian military presentation SU25s brought down MH17).
Does not matter. Americans blamed Russia IMMEDIATELY after the incident even BEFORE any evidence was collected.

The plane's path was DIVERTED by UKRAINIAN ATC to go over the zone of highest fighting.

These are FACTS which are INDISPUTABLE.
 

asianobserve

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The plane's path was DIVERTED by UKRAINIAN ATC to go over the zone of highest fighting.

These are FACTS which are INDISPUTABLE.

Funny you said that since none of the countries where most of the victims of the MH17 tragedy came from are buying Putin's tall tales.
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sgarg

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Funny you said that since none of the countries where most of the victims of the MH17 tragedy came from are buying Putin's tall tales.
HTML:
What is your point. You are talking like propaganda replaces truth. If you say sun rises in the West, then it is a fact.

It does not matter if somebody accepts the truth or not. Truth always remains truth.

I have said before which you did not hear! The first thing in criminal investigation is motive. No civilian airplane has been shot down in the fighting zone before or after this incident. Why this incident alone.

Russians had absolutely no motive to shoot down MH17. This is NOT cold war. Putin is attending all foreign conferences despite risk to his own life.
 

asianobserve

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What is your point. You are talking like propaganda replaces truth. If you say sun rises in the West, then it is a fact.

It does not matter if somebody accepts the truth or not. Truth always remains truth.

I have said before which you did not hear! The first thing in criminal investigation is motive. No civilian airplane has been shot down in the fighting zone before or after this incident. Why this incident alone.

Russians had absolutely no motive to shoot down MH17. This is NOT cold war. Putin is attending all foreign conferences despite risk to his own life.

Your so liberal in using the word "truth," you mean Russian truth. Here are some of the things you need to consider:

1. Haven't you not wondered why the governments of the countries where most of the MH17 victims came from, including our Government, which is not enamored to America and the West, are not taking Putin's version (that Ukrainian Su25s shot down MH27)? The concensus points to SAM hitting MH 17. Surely, the leaders, and military and aviation experts of these rather prosperous victim countries have the capacity to arrive at their own independent assessment or theories of the tragedy that senselessly claimed the lives of so many of their countrymen.

2. Nobody is claiming that Russia shot down MH17, certainly not our country. The prevailing accusation is that Russian-backed rebels shot down MH17 using Russian supplied SAM (the German BND however believes that Pro-Russian rebels got the SAM from Ukrainian stock);

3. What is the motive of the pro-Russian rebels in shooting down MH17? The most likely is none. They simply mistook MH17 for a Ukrainian transport plane. Their inadequate identification system coupled with trigger happy impulses ensured that the disaster happens. I call it "murder by stupidity."
 

Akim

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You can also know what I know IF you look beyond propaganda sources.

Right now there is a war and the facts are being hidden. Ukraine is no free nation. Ukraine has one of the worst internal security apparatus.
Try speaking against Poroshenko and then tell me what happened to you.
I don't trust official sources. I get information from witnesses.
 

Razor

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Will Putin Spend Retirement Sunbathing In Miami With All the Other Airplane Murderers?

Cheer up, Vlad. Being accused of blowing up an airplane isn't the end of the world. Worst case scenario, you can always move to Florida.
Just ask CIA-trained terrorist Luis Posada Carriles, who managed to escape from prison while on trial in Venezuela for dynamiting a Cuban airliner, killing all 78 people on board. After various zany adventures – including a stint in Panamanian prison for different, non-airplane related terrorism – Carriles eventually arrived in sunny Miami in 2005, where he has "slept like a baby" ever since — when he wasn't marching in Cuban Patriot parades with Gloria Estefan and the Miami Sound Machine.

Note here: Luis Posada Carriles (born February 15, 1928) is a terrorist and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) agent. Link here

It's time to extend this same famous American hospitality to Vladimir Putin. After all, the United States doesn't want to be accused of favoritism. All airplane-exploders are equal in the eyes of Western outrage.

But before John Kerry e-mails Putin his green card, perhaps it would be prudent to ask: Are we entirely certain that Putin actually shot down MH17? Because it would be careless to let him sunbathe on America's famous oil spill beaches, only later to discover that he didn't blow up an airplane after all. That would be the immigration scandal of the century.

Here's what we know after four months: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke up in mid-air after being hit by "objects" that "pierced the plane at high velocity." In other words: All the hallmarks of a Putin human cannon attack. Won't this spawn of Satan even apologize? This is the question that everyone, and especially Australian prime minister Tony Abbott, desperately wants answered. Tony Abbott, as you will soon see, is a man of action. And boundless wisdom.

At the recent Bow Before Your Asian Masters summit, Abbott told Putin that he "should consider issuing an apology and providing compensation" to relatives of MH17 victims. As The Guardian tells it:

The prime minister's office said Abbott cited the US navy's shooting down of an Iranian passenger plane in 1988, saying it "had duly apologised and made appropriate restitution".

"He commended the precedent to president Putin," Abbott's office said.
Abbott is referring to the US navy missile attack on Iran Air Flight 655, which killed 290 people. It's an interesting choice of "precedent" when one considers that the Pentagon expressed its heartfelt apologies to Iran with "a cover-up approved at the top, by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff." And after an internal investigation cleared America of all wrongdoing, top Pentagon brass predictably blamed Iran for the accident.

Contrary to the goo that came out of Tony Abbott's mouth hole, the United States never formally apologized to Iran, but it did award the captain who gave the shoot-down order the Legion of Merit for "exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer."

Finally, in 1996, the US was bullied by the International Court of Justice into paying $213,103.45 per person that they killed in 1988.

And of course, America's most trusted newspaper ran a scathing front page scolding of the entire episode, asserting in the strongest possible language: "While horrifying, it was nonetheless an accident"¦ The onus for avoiding such accidents in the future rests on civilian aircraft: avoid combat zones, fly high, acknowledge warnings."

Yes, this is the Tony Abbott-approved roadmap to Forgiveness and Reconciliation. We told you he was wise, but you probably thought we were just being facetious.

And now let us return to our present nightmare.

In the civilized, guilty-until-proven-worse-than-Hitler West, Russia's culpability in MH17"²s crash is a foregone conclusion. Less than a week after the accident, the BBC rejoiced:

The United States and several of its closest allies have immediately accused Russia of aiding and abetting, if not actually perpetrating, a heinous crime.

Mainstream Western media are already calling for Russia to be treated as a pariah state. As a majority of the victims were from the Netherlands, relations with Europe are particularly likely to suffer.
This came at a time when, according to the BBC, Putin "had joined Germany and France in a diplomatic effort to promote a political settlement within Ukraine that would also take Russia's interests into account" and "the Obama Administration's attempts to rally the Europeans around the sanctions agenda appeared largely ineffectual."

And then Putin and his band of terrorists shot down MH17 and ruined everything. Poor timing from a KGB judo master, but sometimes we all have "off" days.


Whatever may come next (nuclear proxy war with Russia, which means your frail Russia correspondent will surely perish), we must always remember that when it comes to blowing up airliners, America stands on the firmest moral footing. Just ask Tony Abbott.

Enjoy Florida, Vlad.
Source: Russian news: Will Putin Spend Retirement Sunbathing In Miami With All the Other Airplane Murderers? - Russia Insider

Funny article, full of sarcasm.
 

pmaitra

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Your so liberal in using the word "truth," you mean Russian truth. Here are some of the things you need to consider:

1. Haven't you not wondered why the governments of the countries where most of the MH17 victims came from, including our Government, which is not enamored to America and the West, are not taking Putin's version (that Ukrainian Su25s shot down MH27)? The concensus points to SAM hitting MH 17. Surely, the leaders, and military and aviation experts of these rather prosperous victim countries have the capacity to arrive at their own independent assessment or theories of the tragedy that senselessly claimed the lives of so many of their countrymen.

2. Nobody is claiming that Russia shot down MH17, certainly not our country. The prevailing accusation is that Russian-backed rebels shot down MH17 using Russian supplied SAM (the German BND however believes that Pro-Russian rebels got the SAM from Ukrainian stock);

3. What is the motive of the pro-Russian rebels in shooting down MH17? The most likely is none. They simply mistook MH17 for a Ukrainian transport plane. Their inadequate identification system coupled with trigger happy impulses ensured that the disaster happens. I call it "murder by stupidity."
The burden of proof is on the plaintiff, not the accused.

If there is evidence, let's bring it out. Those uniform (apparently) 30mm bullet holes are not going to go away. The whole world has seen them. It is a question as to how long this theory of BUK-M1 can be sustained. Event the Dutch investigators opened the possibility of a Sukhoi-25 shooting it down.

We've seen the mutterings of the western leaders during the Russia-Georgia War. The truth eventually came out. Even those that ran to that Saakashvili's defence, swallowed their words.
 

bhramos

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Most terrifying moments of my life. Ukraine Flying bullets pin me down in Nikishino

 
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sgarg

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Your so liberal in using the word "truth," you mean Russian truth. Here are some of the things you need to consider:

1. Haven't you not wondered why the governments of the countries where most of the MH17 victims came from, including our Government, which is not enamored to America and the West, are not taking Putin's version (that Ukrainian Su25s shot down MH27)? The concensus points to SAM hitting MH 17. Surely, the leaders, and military and aviation experts of these rather prosperous victim countries have the capacity to arrive at their own independent assessment or theories of the tragedy that senselessly claimed the lives of so many of their countrymen.

2. Nobody is claiming that Russia shot down MH17, certainly not our country. The prevailing accusation is that Russian-backed rebels shot down MH17 using Russian supplied SAM (the German BND however believes that Pro-Russian rebels got the SAM from Ukrainian stock);

3. What is the motive of the pro-Russian rebels in shooting down MH17? The most likely is none. They simply mistook MH17 for a Ukrainian transport plane. Their inadequate identification system coupled with trigger happy impulses ensured that the disaster happens. I call it "murder by stupidity."
Nope. Your statements are pure propaganda. Malaysians can believe in whatever they want to believe in.

There is absolutely no reason for rebels to shoot down the plane either. All Ukrainian evidence is false and made up.

There is only one reason - Kiev is losing the war, and its Western supporters are fighting an economic war with Russia.

The plane was flying too high to be mistaken for a military transport plane. Soviet transport planes can be distinguished by their audible signature very clearly.
 
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