Civil war in Ukraine

[arpakola]

Excuse me, I am little confused. What do you mean by "neo-nazis"? Does it mean the Ukrainian army? Do you believe that all of them are national-socialists (or Nazis)? Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTAGcV6_o1w

rss news: Fascists of the Right sector / UNA-UNSO trained in Esthonian camp by NATO officers, summer 2006

(nothing personal though..)

 

[arpakola]

Seva Goncharevskii, the butcher of Odessa - Please share!
Busted! Viral Video IDs Man Committing Atrocity During Odessa Massacre (cc, 5 min) - Russia Insider

What Seva Goncharevskii has done during his participation in the Odessa massacre ?

This video seems to very convincingly positively identify a man brutally beating people who were lying prostrate who had just fallen 3 stories out of a burning building during the Odessa massacre.

It has English subtitles.

Its important because this massacre was a major flash point and became a catalyst for the entire Ukraine conflict, galvanizing public opinion in East Ukraine and Russia, horrified by what had happened.

Here's the background:

On May 2 there was a grisly massacre in Odessa when 42 pro-Russian demonstrators were burned alive in a building after being set upon by pro-Ukrainian activists.

Here is a wikipedia description of the event. We can't vouch for its objectivity, but at least it gives a sense of what happened.

The pro-Russian side says that they were unarmed, were viciously attacked by heavily armed pro-Kiev, neo-nazi activists, from which they fled, seeking refuge in a trade union building. They claim the activists then set fire to the building, where many of the pro-Russians died in the flames, and that even when trying to escape the building, they were shot at and physically attacked.

The pro-Kiev side says that after street fighting with the pro-Russians, they barricaded themselves into the building, and that the fire started accidentally, and denies continuing to attack the victims in the building.

We don't know which version is closer to the truth, but find it interesting that to this day, the western media has not made much of an effort to investigate the story. Seems a bit of an oversight to us, considering the tragic results and the possibility of a major atrocity having transpired.

There was a major uproar in Russia in the weeks following the tragedy, because the mainstream Western media mentioned it only in passing, and showed little interest in the story, mostly presenting the pro-Kiev version of events.

To this day it is probably Exhibit A for most Russians that the western media is biased against Russia.

A few days ago, this video surfaced on the Russian internet. We haven't had time to look in to who made it, because we wanted to rush to get it out ourselves. We will keep you posted on what we find out, and will write more about the event, and the controversy surrounding it, in the coming days.

Later in the video he is identified as an organizer of the anti-Russian militants involved in the skirmishes that day. The information about the video on the Russian youtube page identifies him as Seva Goncharevskii, and says he has a Facebook profile, but it no longer exists on Facebook.

This is a big deal because whether or not he is found or captured, an investigation into who he is will likely implicate others involved in the events that day.

Watch the video yourself, its a shocker. (Warning: It contains grisly scenes. Not for children or faint of heart!)

We think this video could go seriously viral around the world, and could cause a major shift in western public opinion about what is going on in the Ukraine.

Please share!

P.S. By coincidence, the invaluable Saker has a comment out today on Russia Insider, lambasting the western media and governments for ignoring the extent of the atrocities and neo-nazi involvement in the Ukraine.

 

[arpakola]

Daily life in Banderastan
Today, the Parliamentarian Nestor Shufrich was beat up by thugs of the Right Sector. The cops stood by and watched.

============

In Kharkov, a man was found impaled on a church fence, his body attached with electrician's tape to the fence. Medical gloves were found on the site. According to witnesses, he was killed by Right Sector activists on suspicion of being a sympathizer of Novorussia.

According to official police reports, this man impaled himself and, presumably, having done that, found the time and energy to securely attach himself to the fence with tape.

 

[Akim]

Eney, please introduce yourself on the introduction section.
If you kindly go through the thread you will find numerous images and links to nazi leaning and openly glorifying activities, such as "suitcase, station, Russia". However, as respected member @Akim has claimed on several occasions that there is very few support which was in turn corrected by other senior members that those lunatics could be small in number but they have key positions in ministry, armed battalions, foreign investment etc. Hence, regarding your query, here are some links exposing the freedom fighters you will find not so amusing --------

Ukraine's Kiev Regime is not "Officially" A Neo-Nazi Government | Global Research

Ukraine's 'Romantic' Nazi Storm Troopers | Consortiumnews

De fijne jongens van Aidar - Politics.be

Now, regarding the proportion of neo nazis, I must say that not all of them are neo nazis. The punitive battalions are comprised of neo nazis and in the conventional military units there are some soldiers having similar beliefs. It's similar to German units in WW2. There were SS and Wehrmacht. While the SS regiments were made of nazi members there were some soldiers in Wehrmacht having nazi ideals.

N.B. These are all non Russian sources and I have listed only a few links related to punitive nazi battalions but not 'civilian' nazi groups.


Anyway, I am pretty sure you will enjoy being a member of DFI.

Won't even comment. We here more "fried babies eat". Raving. Yesterday visited a Russian website and read comments. They believe that it is true. These are the people who speak the same language and can read Donetsk newssites and forums. But they don't need an alternative truth. They are satisfied with only the Russian interpretation. So, sense to prove this you?

 

[arpakola]

Won't even comment. We here more "fried babies eat". Raving. Yesterday visited a Russian website and read comments. They believe that it is true. These are the people who speak the same language and can read Donetsk newssites and forums. But they don't need an alternative truth. They are satisfied with only the Russian interpretation. So, sense to prove this you?

No , not possible to eat babies.. Homo Habilis and homo erectus were fruit eaters..

 

[@yourService]

Won't even comment. We here more "fried babies eat". Raving. Yesterday visited a Russian website and read comments. They believe that it is true. These are the people who speak the same language and can read Donetsk newssites and forums. But they don't need an alternative truth. They are satisfied with only the Russian interpretation. So, sense to prove this you?

With utmost respect, do you even care to read ? I knew beforehand that you will say something about Russian propaganda, thus I gave non Russian links. Still you are busy discarding those as Russian interpretation. It's really pathetic to communicate in this way.

 

[Eney]

yourService,
Thank you! I am a habitant of one of Ukrainian's cities on the western side of Ukraine.
I understand what did you mean. It's related to nazi symbols used by some Ukrainian national guard's battalions. However, I am still not sure that it's related to Nazi ideology. I would say that the Nationalism is the most popular ideology here, in Ukraine. So, it's not the national socialism which we call Nazism.
Please pay attention that that most arguments about Ukrainian "nazis" are graphic mostly. No texts, no hate speeches or nazi's ideology. There are pictures and short videos only. Is it enough for you? As for me, I need more arguments.

Thank you.

 

[bhramos]

girl soldiers from rebels

 

[bhramos]

Photos from the mass graves of civilians killed by Ukrainian military. To be exhumed, the whole area will be examined. Results are other graves, which will be opened. Next to the graves discovered rations of National Guards. All documented proofs of the criminals will be sent to military tribunal .

Spoiler

 

[Akim]

No , not possible to eat babies.. Homo Habilis and homo erectus were fruit eaters..

So what? This is not the whole of Ukraine, and only a negligible part.

 

[Akim]

Next to the graves discovered rations of National Guards

And Yarosh business card.

 

[jouni]

This whole issue of "Nazis" is quite interesting. In order to understand it, you should look a little bit to the past. When Germany attacked Soviet Union 1941, it was lest than two decades after the Russian civil war between communists and czarist/ democratics "reds" and "whites". Also it was less than 10 years after famine in Ukraine which killed millions and was the consequence of Stalins politics.

In 1941 there was a lot of people in Ukraine who saw Germans as liberators, and wanted to fight russians with Germans, a lot of Ukrainians and Baltic countries men joined Waffen SS because they were nationalists wanting to liberate their countires from Communism/Russians. They were not supporters of German politics. Of course there are exceptions, especially a lot of anti-semitism was supported by some of those forces.

After Germany lost the war, Soviets accused all Nationalists to being nazis and German supporters. That is what winners do, no matter what the country or conflict. Also now this nazi-card is used in Baltics also, all those who wanted free and democratic Estonia and fought in German army are labeled nazis by Russian supporters and Russian government also uses this method, when it sees it appropriate.

One interesting thing is that also a finnish batallion fought in Waffen SS in Ukraine 1942-44. They were returned to Finland after their contract of 2 years and the batallion was embedded to finnish army. That is because Finland was not in pact with Germany politically, but militarily very much so.

After the war finnish SS men were not charged, they have their own memorial in Helsinki and there is no stigma in them in Finland. Also Russia has not used this "nazi card" in Finland, although I am sure that it is in their arsenal if the need arises.

Summa summarun, Ukrainian civil war should be called Ukrainian war of independence, current conflict is just continuation of countries breaking away from Russian sphere of influence that has been going on since the fall of the Soviet Union.

People should be able to separate nationalism from Nazi-propaganda largely formuted and supported from Moscow as a part of the conflict to secure Russian interests.

 

[arpakola]

no comments..

 

[arpakola]

This whole issue of "Nazis" is quite interesting. In order to understand it, you should look a little bit to the past. When Germany attacked Soviet Union 1941, it was lest than two decades after the Russian civil war between communists and czarist/ democratics "reds" and "whites". Also it was less than 10 years after famine in Ukraine which killed millions and was the consequence of Stalins politics.

In 1941 there was a lot of people in Ukraine who saw Germans as liberators, and wanted to fight russians with Germans, a lot of Ukrainians and Baltic countries men joined Waffen SS because they were nationalists wanting to liberate their countires from Communism/Russians. They were not supporters of German politics. Of course there are exceptions, especially a lot of anti-semitism was supported by some of those forces.
......
People should be able to separate nationalism from Nazi-propaganda largely formuted and supported from Moscow as a part of the conflict to secure Russian interests.

Yes .. it was the Stepan Bandera followers, pure NAZI .. even Himler was considered them radicals and extrimists..

n the spring of 1941, according to the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine and other sources, Bandera held meetings with the heads of Germany's intelligence, regarding the formation of "Nachtigall" and "Roland" Battalions. In spring of that year the OUN received 2.5 million marks for subversive activities inside the USSR.[22][25][26]
Gestapo and Abwehr officials protected Bandera followers, as both organizations intended to use them for their own purposes.[27]
On June 30, 1941, with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, Bandera and the OUN-B declared an independent Ukrainian State. Some of the published proclamations of the formation of this state say that it "will work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation." - as stated in the text of the "Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood".[22][26]

also >> Ukraine's Neo-Nazis. Stepan Bandera and the Legacy of World War II | Global Research

Now as for the western Ukraine , local Hohols have a tradition of lucking self dignity , a very good history of promoting traitors to heros making status aout of them and printing their faces to the roling down Hryvnia.. like the Ukranian Traitor Ivan Mazepa

Ivan Stepanovych Mazepa (Ukrainian: Іван Степанович Мазепа, Russian: Ива́н Степа́нович Мазе́па,Polish: Jan Mazepa KoÅ‚odyÅ„ski; March 20, 1639 – October 2, 1709), Cossack Hetman of the Hetmanate inLeft-bank Ukraine, from 1687–1708, the Prince of the Holy Roman Empire 1707-1709. He was famous as a patron of the arts, and also played an important role in the Battle of Poltava where after learning of Peter I's intent to relieve him as acting Hetman of Ukraine and replace him with Alexander Menshikov, he deserted his army and sided with Charles of Sweden. The politicization of this desertion has held a lasting legacy in both Russian and Ukrainian national history.

Because of this, the Russian Orthodox Church has laid an anathema on his name since the beginning of the 18th century and refuses to renounce to this day. Everyone who opposed the Russian government in eighteenth-century Ukraine were derogatorily referred to as Mazepintsy (Mazepists). The alienation of Mazepa from Ukrainian history continued during the Soviet period, but since Ukraine's independence there have been strong moves to rehabilitate Mazepa's image, although he remains a figure of mixed standing.

The last straw in the souring relations with Tsar Peter was his refusal to commit any significant force to defend Ukraine against the Polish King Stanislaus Leszczynski, an ally of Charles XII of Sweden, who threatened to attack the Cossack Hetmanate in 1708.
Peter expected that king Charles of Sweden was going to attack and thought that he could spare no forces. In the opinion of Mazepa, this blatantly violated theTreaty of Pereyaslav, since Russia refused to protect Ukraine's territory and left it to fare on its own. As the Swedish and Polish armies advanced towards Ukraine, Mazepa allied himself with them on October 28, 1708. However, only 3,000 Cossacks followed their Hetman, with rest remaining loyal to the Tsar. Mazepa's call to arms was further weakened by the Orthodox Clergy's allegiance for the Tsar. Learning of Mazepa's treason, the Russian army sacked and razed the Cossack Hetmanate capital of Baturyn, killing most of the defending garrison and many common people. The Russian army was ordered to tie up the dead Cossacks to crosses, and float them down the Dnieper Riverall the way to the Black Sea. This was done for the purpose of intimidating the Mazepa loyalists who lived downstream along the Dnieper.

 

[Eney]

This whole issue of "Nazis" is quite interesting. In order to understand it, you should look a little bit to the past. When Germany attacked Soviet Union 1941, it was lest than two decades after the Russian civil war between communists and czarist/ democratics "reds" and "whites". Also it was less than 10 years after famine in Ukraine which killed millions and was the consequence of Stalins politics.
...skipped...

This is absolutely correct explaining of the current conflict in Ukraine. I would add that the western part of Ukraine (and Belorussia as well) was occupied by Soviet Union in September 1939 forcibly. It explains why nationalist sentiments were so popular in western Ukraine before the Second World War.

 

[arpakola]

This is absolutely correct explaining of the current conflict in Ukraine. I would add that the western part of Ukraine (and Belorussia as well) was occupied by Soviet Union in September 1939 forcibly. It explains why nationalist sentiments were so popular in western Ukraine before the Second World War.

In 1129 Principality of Minsk was annexed by Kiev (RUS) , the dominant city of Kievan Rus', however in 1146 the Polatsk dynasty regained control of the principality. By 1150 Minsk has rivaled Polatsk as the major city in the former Principality of Polatsk. Princes of Minsk and Polatsk were engaged in years of struggle trying to unite all lands previously under the rule of Polatsk. History of Minsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lithouanians and Poles .. also wanted the area. . yes..
The issue is what the Slaves , South slaves or Moskovites are doing regarding the area.
And surely the characteristic of west Ukraine ,, Hoholand or Banderistan now is their tendancy to produse traitors , historically ..
Bandera and Mazepa .. leading characters on this..

 

[bhramos]

And Yarosh business card.

 

[bhramos]

"We visited the service station, now repairing equipment seized 2S19" MSTA-S ", BMP and our podranenny tank" Greetings from the Besa. "refuel the tanks. Dyuzhe expensive diesel fuel now costs up to" Maidan "fuel was much cheaper . As one militiaman, thanks POROSHENKO for expensive gasoline and chemical candy "roshenki."

 

[bhramos]

 

[bhramos]

Bombardment ukrami school, interviews with Zaharchenko.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyhDWSqcDj4