MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[MirageBlue]

India has put itself in the position of planning for more Rafales but failing to order them and suffering through that failure. Par for the course.

How soon could India get more Rafales built in France now that there is a very substantial backlog of orders?

The IAF is the one that is unwilling to be pragmatic or get a feel for what's likely to happen. They're stuck on 126 or 114 Made in India MRFA fighters even when there is clearly no political will to make that happen, what with the emphasis on self reliance in defence.

Had they proposed a more modest follow on order for 48 Rafales bought OTS they'd have 5 Rafale squadrons and then the focus could've shifted to Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.

 

[Hari Sud]

MMRCA deal has to be scaled back. It is a fancy of airforce hierarchy which is fighter dominated. The technology is changing very fast to UAVs and flying ammunition with capability to overwhelm the enemy in the battlefield. It has been proven in Ukraine and U.S. hierarchy is close to implement it in Taiwan straits, if China attacks Taiwan. Hence that too much stress on fighters has to be rested in favour of UAV evolution.

 

[MirageBlue]

Brazilian Air Force in negotiations with US for used F-16s

The Brazilian Air Force (FAB) is negotiating with the US government for the potential purchase of 24 Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcons, a ranking Brazilian officer told Janes in early June. Although negotiations are at an early stage, the FAB intends to decide quickly, potentially before the end of 2024, the officer said.

In 2014 the FAB ordered 36 Gripens for USD5.4 billion, and was widely expected to purchase a second batch of 36 to equip the 1º Grupo de Defesa Aérea (1º GDA) at Anápolis, which operated Mirage 2000s until 2013, then replace the two groups equipped with F-5EM Tiger IIs, followed by the two groups equipped with AMXs.

Although the service was expected to purchase a second batch of Saab Gripen E/Fs, insufficient funding has led the FAB to search for cheaper options to replace its old fighter aircraft, the officer told Janes.

Even as 1º GDA integrates and tests Brazil's first Gripens, the FAB has yet to decide which will be the second unit to receive the remainder of the order; they will likely equip a group that today operates F-5s. The AMX fleet is due to be retired by the end of 2025, and without sufficient Gripens on order to replace them, the FAB is looking at less expensive options.

This will be a huge setback for Saab. They were banking on Brazil ordering a second batch of 36 Gripen E/F jets to generate work for their assembly line in Sweden and Brazil. Now with this news of Brazil looking for used F-16s from the USA, Saab will be pretty desperate to secure an order.

Expect a marketing blitz from Saab to pitch the Gripen E/F for the MRFA. The more time that MRFA takes and the closer we get to the Tejas Mk2 rollout, the lesser the likelihood becomes for Gripen E/F to succeed in MRFA.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Brazilian Air Force in negotiations with US for used F-16s



This will be a huge setback for Saab. They were banking on Brazil ordering a second batch of 36 Gripen E/F jets to generate work for their assembly line in Sweden and Brazil. Now with this news of Brazil looking for used F-16s from the USA, Saab will be pretty desperate to secure an order.

Expect a marketing blitz from Saab to pitch the Gripen E/F for the MRFA. The more time that MRFA takes and the closer we get to the Tejas Mk2 rollout, the lesser the likelihood becomes for Gripen E/F to succeed in MRFA.

This is USA keeping South America (it's refrigerator) firmly in it's pocket. Multiple South American nations have opted for used F-16s. Yanks are so aggressive other sellers don't stand a chance. Saab is shit out of luck, they need to focus back on Eastern Europe (Poland/Greece), Arabs and SEA losers to make a sale (bribe Malaysians, they are pro scumbags who will sell their mothers for the right price). Saab is too late to pitch the Gripen E over here, with Tejas Mk2 nearing completion. IAF can't even get a complimentary fleet of MRFA signed off, they no longer can import something that directly replaces the local fighter. Maybe Saab should instead consider selling a turbo hatchback in the Indian auto market.

 

[Super Flanker]

Brazilian Air Force in negotiations with US for used F-16s



This will be a huge setback for Saab. They were banking on Brazil ordering a second batch of 36 Gripen E/F jets to generate work for their assembly line in Sweden and Brazil. Now with this news of Brazil looking for used F-16s from the USA, Saab will be pretty desperate to secure an order.

Expect a marketing blitz from Saab to pitch the Gripen E/F for the MRFA. The more time that MRFA takes and the closer we get to the Tejas Mk2 rollout, the lesser the likelihood becomes for Gripen E/F to succeed in MRFA.

This is USA keeping South America (it's refrigerator) firmly in it's pocket. Multiple South American nations have opted for used F-16s. Yanks are so aggressive other sellers don't stand a chance. Saab is shit out of luck, they need to focus back on Eastern Europe (Poland/Greece), Arabs and SEA losers to make a sale (bribe Malaysians, they are pro scumbags who will sell their mothers for the right price). Saab is too late to pitch the Gripen E over here, with Tejas Mk2 nearing completion. IAF can't even get a complimentary fleet of MRFA signed off, they no longer can import something that directly replaces the local fighter. Maybe Saab should instead consider selling a turbo hatchback in the Indian auto market.

After a few years, when the first TD of the MWF rolls outs and makes its first flight, it will effectively close all prospect of any single engine 4th generation aircraft being imported let alone the Swedish SAAB Gripen. IAF didn't order additional 83 Mk-1A as a follow on order of the initial squadrons of Mk-1 for nothing. They tested the LCA Mk-1 to its limits, and find it to be satisfactory in every way they could possibly think of. Mk-1A is just the sign that IAF is happy with Tejas and it's future is bright. Induction of MWF will mean the end of the road for SAAB's Gripen. Relax, IAF will never import a foreign single engine aircraft because MWF will fulfill all their needs.

 

[Satish Sharma]

 

[Spitfire9]

After a few years, when the first TD of the MWF rolls outs and makes its first flight, it will effectively close all prospect of any single engine 4th generation aircraft being imported let alone the Swedish SAAB Gripen. IAF didn't order additional 83 Mk-1A as a follow on order of the initial squadrons of Mk-1 for nothing. They tested the LCA Mk-1 to its limits, and find it to be satisfactory in every way they could possibly think of. Mk-1A is just the sign that IAF is happy with Tejas and it's future is bright. Induction of MWF will mean the end of the road for SAAB's Gripen. Relax, IAF will never import a foreign single engine aircraft because MWF will fulfill all their needs.

I agree. Anything SAAB spends on MMRCA 2.0 is money wasted IMO.

 

[Super Flanker]

I agree. Anything SAAB spends on MMRCA 2.0 is money wasted IMO.

I think SAAB is simply wasting it's time by still participating in the MMRCA tender, they should have pulled out by now. Already they are desperate to get an order for the Gripen from any country at this point. Now it seems that Brazil which was supposed to opt for additional Gripens will go for second hand F-16, again closing the prospect of additional Gripens being sold to the Brazilian AirForce.

By the way @Spitfire9 are you an NRI or a British White living in the UK/elsewhere? I mean your username is cool, why not put up a photo of a Spitfire as your profile? I am not forcing you, it's just that I think that you should have a profile picture because I find interactions with such members more interesting. Hope you like the photos though, you can use one of these as your account profile.

Apologies to go a little OFF-TOPIC. Will refrain from doing so now. Have a great day.

 

[BON PLAN]

Brazilian Air Force in negotiations with US for used F-16s



This will be a huge setback for Saab. They were banking on Brazil ordering a second batch of 36 Gripen E/F jets to generate work for their assembly line in Sweden and Brazil. Now with this news of Brazil looking for used F-16s from the USA, Saab will be pretty desperate to secure an order.

Expect a marketing blitz from Saab to pitch the Gripen E/F for the MRFA. The more time that MRFA takes and the closer we get to the Tejas Mk2 rollout, the lesser the likelihood becomes for Gripen E/F to succeed in MRFA.

What a news ! If true it is a blow for SAAB, as Brazil was intended to purchase a total of 108 Gripen.

Or they are out of funds (as ever) or they are not happy with Gripen, or the two....

 

[BON PLAN]

This is USA keeping South America (it's refrigerator) firmly in it's pocket. Multiple South American nations have opted for used F-16s. Yanks are so aggressive other sellers don't stand a chance. Saab is shit out of luck, they need to focus back on Eastern Europe (Poland/Greece), Arabs and SEA losers to make a sale (bribe Malaysians, they are pro scumbags who will sell their mothers for the right price). Saab is too late to pitch the Gripen E over here, with Tejas Mk2 nearing completion. IAF can't even get a complimentary fleet of MRFA signed off, they no longer can import something that directly replaces the local fighter. Maybe Saab should instead consider selling a turbo hatchback in the Indian auto market.

Not agree.
In this case no first Gripen sale.

 

[MirageBlue]

What a news ! If true it is a blow for SAAB, as Brazil was intended to purchase a total of 108 Gripen.

Or they are out of funds (as ever) or they are not happy with Gripen, or the two....

The clarification issued by FAB is that they are only looking at F-16 data study as of now. And that this is not in any way related to the capability of the Gripen E/F but rather the cost of the Gripen E/F versus their current economic outlook, which is once again poor.

This may also well be a tactic, to pressurize Sweden to opt for a KC-390 purchase from Embraer in return for the purchase of additional Gripen E/Fs. Brazil had been expecting the same from Sweden earlier but it didn't happen.

 

[MirageBlue]

F-15SA (EX is based on this) with 12 AMRAAMs

 

[vikasd]

Just in

India Seeks Full Manufacturing and Technology Transfer for $20 Billion MRFA Fighter Jet Deal

India Seeks Full Manufacturing and Technology Transfer for $20 Billion MRFA Fighter Jet Deal

India's Ministry of Defence has made a major shift in its procurement policy for 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA). The government now insists on full manufacturing and technology transfer within India. The $20 billion deal, one of the world's largest defence contracts, has attracted major...

defence.in

 

[Spitfire9]

Just in

India Seeks Full Manufacturing and Technology Transfer for $20 Billion MRFA Fighter Jet Deal

India Seeks Full Manufacturing and Technology Transfer for $20 Billion MRFA Fighter Jet Deal

India's Ministry of Defence has made a major shift in its procurement policy for 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA). The government now insists on full manufacturing and technology transfer within India. The $20 billion deal, one of the world's largest defence contracts, has attracted major...

defence.in

I do not think that India is in a position to ask for full TOT and 74% DFI. Which of the companies tendering for the deal would accept those conditions? Given that India urgently needs fighters, slowing MMRCA 2.0 down is not a good idea IMO. I suggest that more sensible would be to drop MMRCA 2.0, buy Qatar's M2K on offer, buy Greece's M2K's, buy UK's retired Jaguars, order more Su-30MKI and make whatever changes are required to fast track Tejas Mk2.

 

[Azaad]

I do not think that India is in a position to ask for full TOT and 74% DFI. Which of the companies tendering for the deal would accept those conditions? Given that India urgently needs fighters, slowing MMRCA 2.0 down is not a good idea IMO. I suggest that more sensible would be to drop MMRCA 2.0, buy Qatar's M2K on offer, buy Greece's M2K's, buy UK's retired Jaguars, order more Su-30MKI and make whatever changes are required to fast track Tejas Mk2.

You're replying to a post with no references or sources. In other words a post with no credibility. There's been no official statement to that effect issued by the GoI .

 

[vikasd]

You're replying to a post with no references or sources. In other words a post with no credibility. There's been no official statement to that effect issued by the GoI .

Policy switch to make full fighter jets in India

NEW DELHI: Not content with piecemeal Make in India initiatives in its defence procurement, the Union government has made a policy switch to buy as many as 114

www.newindianexpress.com

 

[Azaad]

Policy switch to make full fighter jets in India

NEW DELHI: Not content with piecemeal Make in India initiatives in its defence procurement, the Union government has made a policy switch to buy as many as 114

www.newindianexpress.com

Once again no sources merely speculation.

 

[helin]

Policy switch to make full fighter jets in India

NEW DELHI: Not content with piecemeal Make in India initiatives in its defence procurement, the Union government has made a policy switch to buy as many as 114

www.newindianexpress.com

“GE will transfer 80% technology of its F414 jet engines that will power the Mk2 version of India’s indigenously-developed Light Combat Aircraft. ”

Why not 100%?

 

[Spitfire9]

You're replying to a post with no references or sources. In other words a post with no credibility. There's been no official statement to that effect issued by the GoI .

I quoted a source but the source did not quote its source. Made it up, did they? I can't say they did not.

My view remains that MMRCA 2.0 should be dropped. It would not contribute to IAF squadron numbers until early 2030's in my opinion. Tejas Mk2 should be available within a few years of Made in India foreign fighters being available. Multiple billions of dollars would be saved by buying 100 more Mk2 than by buying 100 MMRCA 2.0

Kaveri has come some of the way towards developing an F404 replacement. Home grown substitutes for F404 and F414 could be developed for a few billion dollars, I would think.