ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Blademaster]

IAF is adamant on foreign fighters. They'll stall Tejas Mk2 till the end of time until and unless they get their vaulted deal cleared in writing and funding.

Then it is quite simple. MoD will only buy Indian fighters and not any foreign fighters. If the pilots refuse to fly they see their pay forfeited and cashiered out of the service.

You gotta start cracking some heads to see some movement.

 

[IndianHawk]

mki starts retiring from mid 30s, 2035.

Nope . Mki will go through mid life upgrades and will serve 15 years more after that easily. Life extension can also happen if necessary.

 

[IndianHawk]

Lots of issues surfacing.

In 2018 we heard about 201 lca mk2 and now the story is minimum 120 and then more depending on performance.

Either IAF is holding larger commitment to first secure more rafales from government or something more is going on.

Personally I think with economical collapse of porkistan lots of things will chang. Poekys won't be able to hold a large airforce anymore. There replacement plans for f7 , Mirage 3 -5 have already failed and jf17 is turning to be a ground junk with many issues. Hence emergency purchase of few j10s.

So what is the future of paf == a much smaller airforce with more capable jets . More j10s down the line to replace f16s and may be 2-4 squadron of some chinese 5th gen on lease by 2040.

I think iaf will watch out for this before committing to additional mk2 over 6 squadrons. And would rather have more rafale and AMCA if above scenario rings true.

This is just some random thoughts. Nothing concrete.

 

[MonaLazy]

economical collapse of porkistan

Even if Bhikaris are neutered with only a token airforce what about Chinese who will dish out 100 or so 4.5-5 gen planes every year! Holding off Chinese will be a numbers game. We will have to outdo them qualitatively along with decent numbers. Mk2 is a critical cog in that wheel - Pakis will be irrelevant. They probably already are and are reduced to playing second fiddle to Chinese in the region.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Personally I think with economical collapse of porkistan lots of things will chang.

Economic collapse of Pakistan is an urban myth.
Post 1965 their economy is always under the drain.
They will beg for money, threaten to implode (give me (Pakistan) money or I (Pakistan) will shoot myself in the foot and you (rest of the world) will be left with the mess) or just outright sell their national sovereignty.

 

[Chinmoy]

So he was lying in 2018?

Their obsession with MRFA has killed off LCA MK.2 and will kill off AMCA

No. He said the same thing in 2018 also. Its infact the media which lied thru its teeth.


Listen from 27 mins onward. ACM Dhanoa categorically said that IAF would procure 6 sqd of LCA Mk2 and a total of 12 sqd of LCA. This is the press conference Livefist quoted. They either misquoted him knowingly or misprint it unknowingly.

 

[Chinmoy]

That money for tenders is from Tejas FSED phase 2/3 funds, also Indranil Roy is more reliable than most journos of this country & that includes Nithin gokhale

Indranil Roy is technically strong, whereas Nitin Gokhale is politically strong. Both are reliable, but when it comes to financing aspect of any project, you should go with Nitin Gokhale. As per my last post, you could see how our media reports. NG was right when he pointed out that IAF already committed on 6 sqds of Mk2 back in 2018. But our esteemed youtubers and twitteratis think that its their online backlash which has forced ACM to give clarification on Mk2 procurement.

Now coming to Mk2 funding, when you are concerned with any PSU, you would know some things about how financing works.
Lets assume GoI has provided you fund of Rs100 for Project X. You have invested Rs 60 in the project and have a surplus of Rs40 with you. Now it depends on you how you could go with spending that 40rs. But if you can't spend it or is not allowed to spend it, you have to return that money back to Government. This was a norm and because of it we have seen in past how our projects always gets stalled for finance.
But there is another way to spend this balance money. DF of the organization could reroute the money to another project with CMD approval. CMD would approach GoI with a project report to approve investment of the balance amount from first project into second project. Now it depends on government to either give go ahead or stall the project. In past we have seen that whenever any DPSU or even PSU had tried doing this, a lot of audit had been setup over it.
Off-late we have seen that HAL had gone ahead with this approach. But the catch in such a strategy is that officially government is not releasing fund for that project, instead they have given go ahead to reroute money from another project into it. Developer would have to present a reworked financial report on the project for further funding. So technically government is funding the project indirectly, but on paper developer is investing on project from his share.

 

[Vamsi]

Indranil Roy is technically strong, whereas Nitin Gokhale is politically strong. Both are reliable, but when it comes to financing aspect of any project, you should go with Nitin Gokhale. As per my last post, you could see how our media reports. NG was right when he pointed out that IAF already committed on 6 sqds of Mk2 back in 2018. But our esteemed youtubers and twitteratis think that its their online backlash which has forced ACM to give clarification on Mk2 procurement.

Now coming to Mk2 funding, when you are concerned with any PSU, you would know some things about how financing works.
Lets assume GoI has provided you fund of Rs100 for Project X. You have invested Rs 60 in the project and have a surplus of Rs40 with you. Now it depends on you how you could go with spending that 40rs. But if you can't spend it or is not allowed to spend it, you have to return that money back to Government. This was a norm and because of it we have seen in past how our projects always gets stalled for finance.
But there is another way to spend this balance money. DF of the organization could reroute the money to another project with CMD approval. CMD would approach GoI with a project report to approve investment of the balance amount from first project into second project. Now it depends on government to either give go ahead or stall the project. In past we have seen that whenever any DPSU or even PSU had tried doing this, a lot of audit had been setup over it.
Off-late we have seen that HAL had gone ahead with this approach. But the catch in such a strategy is that officially government is not releasing fund for that project, instead they have given go ahead to reroute money from another project into it. Developer would have to present a reworked financial report on the project for further funding. So technically government is funding the project indirectly, but on paper developer is investing on project from his share.

Nitin Gokhale will tell what AF HQ wants us to believe. Why on earth does AF chief 1st say that they will decide when 1st aircraft comes and then suddenly change the statement that they are committed to 6 Sqns, unless it's a face saver

 

[flanker99]

we will keep blaming babus,iaf,mod,modi ...meanwhile the korean kf21 took its first flight

 

[WARREN SS]

No. He said the same thing in 2018 also. Its infact the media which lied thru its teeth.


Listen from 27 mins onward. ACM Dhanoa categorically said that IAF would procure 6 sqd of LCA Mk2 and a total of 12 sqd of LCA. This is the press conference Livefist quoted. They either misquoted him knowingly or misprint it unknowingly.

Seeing lca 1mka
Which is Pegged at 6 billion $

6 squadrons
Of LCA will be around 8-9 billion $ or more
Depends on cost escalations

 

[WARREN SS]

Import lobby ka choosne wale param chatukar Shri ShookLawji ko Tatti Lag gaya.

The PM's self-delusional mis-statements about defence manufacturing and R&D

www.ajaishukla.com

View attachment 164423

@ezsasa @hit&run Is every defence thread Will became like this

you already warned this poster multiple times

he needs a thread ban from important threads to pollute it further

 

[ezsasa]

@ezsasa @hit&run Is every defence thread Will became like this

you already warned this poster multiple times

he needs a thread ban from important threads to pollute it further

Thread ban issued.

 

[WARREN SS]

this is UPA levels of performance

Sorry @abingdonboy I have to Agree to disagree with you here

Comparing UPA Which was Marred With policy Paralysis And Heavy Corruption

With NDA Which i can say is not good but Above average in performance

The basic difference btw NDA And UPA was To pulling Out India Defence decisions from policy of indecision And
Political corruptions

The South block was infested With Arms Deals Are pimps

That Is Why NDA in its India years Almost Wiped Arms dealers from the south block

But These Forces are Globally strong Lobby
Specifically western nations Backed by there Intelligence agencies

Here is the thread I hope you are following Which was Started by @ezsasa

Which Mentioned the deals cleared by Modi govt Since 2014

Lists of some major defence deals signed/cleared under Modi Sarkar since 2014:

Updated list with country of Origin of the equipment.
========
2014

• 118 Arjun Mk-2 Tanks.
• 262 Barak-1 SAMs.

2015

• 36 Rafale Fighter Jets.
• 22 AH-64E Apache Attack Helicopters. (Delivery completed in 2020)
• 15 CH-47F Chinook Transport Choppers.(Delivery completed in 2020)
• 10 Heron TP MALE UAVs.
• 7 Next-Generation Stealth Frigates.
• 6 Nuclear-Powered Attack Submarines.
• Akash SR-SAM Systems (7 Squadrons).
• 428 L-70 & ZU-23 AD Guns.
• 72 Pipistrel Virus ultra light training aircraft
• 1 Missile Range instrumentation ship
• 1 Ocean Surveillance Ship

2016

• 145 M-777 Ultra Light Howitzers.
• 114 Dhanush Howitzers.
• 83 LCA Tejas Mk-1A.
• 15 Light Combat Helicopter (LCH).
• 464 T-90SM Tanks.
• BrahMos Missile (1 Regiment).
• Pinaka MBRL (2 Regiments).
• 4 P-8i Neptune.
• 2 Deep-submergence rescue vehicle(Delivery completed in 2020)
• Milan-2T ATGM for 925 Crores

2017

• 1,58,279 Advanced Combat Helmets (ACHs).
• Barak-8 MR-SAM Systems (5 Regiments).
• Barak-8 LR-SAM Systems (4 Warships).
• Akash SR-SAM Systems (2 Regiments).
• 100 K-9 Vajra-T Howitzers.
• 44,000 Night Vision Devices (NVDs). +
• 179 HAL Light Combat Helicopters (LCHs).
• 32 HAL Dhruv Helicopters.
• 100 Barak-1 SR-SAMs.
• 2 A-50EI AWACS.
• Dornier Do228 for Indian Navy
• 12 Dornier Do228 for Indian Airforce
• 16 Anti Submarine Shallow Water corvette
• 2 Diving Support Vessel

2018

• 1,86,138 Bullet Proof Jackets (BPJs).
• 5 S-400 Triumf SAM Systems.
• Akash SR-SAM Systems (2 Regiments).
• Barak-8 LR-SAM Systems (7 Warships).
• 150 Advanced Towed Artillery Gun Systems.
• 6 AH-64E Apache Attack Helicopters.
• 22 HAL Dhruv Helicopters.
• 18 HAL Rudra Helicopters.
• 300 155mm Sharang Field Gun Systems.
• 156 BMP-2/2K Infantry Combat Vehicles (ICVs).
• NAG ATGM Systems (300 Missiles & 25 Carriers).
• 131 Barak-1 SR-SAMs.
• 240 Precision Guided Bombs.
• 2 Stealth Frigates (Project 11356).
• 2 Stealth Frigates(Goa Shipyard).
• IAI sky capture C2 system
• 4 Ocean Survey vessels for Indian Navy

2019

• 6 Diesel Electric Attack submarines(Project 75 I)
• 72,400 Sig Sauer 716 (7.62 X 51) (Delivery started in Mar 2020)
• 5000 ATGM
• 750,000 AK-203 Assault rifles
• ~2500 JVPC
• 24 MH-60R Naval Helicopters
• 1 Akula class nuclear submarine
• Unknown quantity Spice 2000 for 300 crores
• Unknown quantity of BVR
• NGMMCB(Next Generation Maritime Mobile Coastal Batteries)-Brahmos
• Mechanical Mine Layer (Self Propelled)
• Software defined radio for Indian Navy
• Aux Power Packs for T-72 & T-90
• EW Systems for Mountain warfare
• 1800 Sniper rifles + 2.7 Million rounds of ammunition
• 120 Short Span Bridging systems by L&T for Indian Army

2020

• 21 Mig-29 + 57 Mig-29 UPG upgrade
• 12 Sukhoi-30
• 10 Ka-31 AEW&C Helicopters
• 5 Fleet Vessel Ship (Turkey + HSL)
• 16,479 Negev 7.62x51 mm LMG
• 22 Sea Guardian drones
• Unknown quantity Spice 2000 for 500 crores
• 13 Mk45(Mod 4) 127 mm Naval guns
• 248 Astra A2A missile
• Software defined Radio for IA
• Unknown quantity of Pinaka Missile
• Development of LRLACM(Long-Range Land Attack Cruise Missile Systems)
• 2nd Phase MAFI, 37 airfields upgrade.
• 72,000 Sig Sauer 716 (7.62 X 51)
• Smart Anti-Airfield Weapon (SAAW)
• 6 AWACS based on A320/A321
• 11 Next Generation Offshore Patrol Vessels (NGOPVs)

2021

• 6 Next Generation Missile Vessels (Anti Surface warfare Corvette) Order for GSL
• 118 Arjun Mk1A for 8400 crore
• APS for Armoured vehicles for 5300 crores
• 293 NAG Missiles, 13 NAMICA
• 8 Arudhra Medium powered radar
• Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) 125mm practice tank ammunition
• 27 Kalyani-Paramount M4 APC
• 8 DRDO MANPAD Rfp issued
• 556 ARHMD (Augmented Reality Head Mounted Display) for AD systems , RFI issued.
• Ideaforge SWITCH VTOL UAV - 20 million $.
• 4960 Milan-2T ATGM (Repeat order) for 1,188 Crores
• 1300 Mahindra LSV for 1,056 Crores
• 250 Akash Missile for 500 Crores
• 70,000 AK-203 off the shelf purchase from Russia
• 14 Integrated Anti-Submarine Warfare Defence Suites (IADS) for ₹1,349.95 crore
• Anti Drone system Ordered by Indian Navy, DRDO - BEL
• Anti Drone system Ordered by Indian Air Force worth 150 Crores, Zen Technologies
• 100+ SkyStriker Loitering Munition Ordered by Indian Army
• Additional Mk54 Torpedoes for P-8i for 423 crores ₹
• 12 Light utility Helicopter
• 2 Fixed Base Full Mission Simulators for Jaguar aircraft from HAL for IAF, 357 crores ₹

2022

• Konkurs-M ATGM for 3131 crores ₹ from BDL
• 957 Commander Thermal Imager cum Day sights for T-90 for 1057 crores ₹ from BDL
• 8 Fast Patrol Vessels for Coast Guard for 473 crore ₹ from Goa Shipyard
• 15 Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) Limited Series Production for 3887 crores ₹ from HAL
• Astra-Mk1 (A2A) for 2971 crores ₹ from BDL

Modi Sarkaar - Defence Acquisitions

Lists of some major defence deals signed/cleared under Modi Sarkar since 2014: Updated list with country of Origin of the equipment. ======== 2014 118 Arjun Mk-2 Tanks. 🇮🇳 262 Barak-1 SAMs. 🇮🇱 2015 36 Rafale Fighter Jets. 🇫🇷 22 AH-64E Apache Attack Helicopters. (Delivery completed in 2020)...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Chinmoy]

Nitin Gokhale will tell what AF HQ wants us to believe. Why on earth does AF chief 1st say that they will decide when 1st aircraft comes and then suddenly change the statement that they are committed to 6 Sqns, unless it's a face saver

No, it was not a face saver. I've already posted 2 vids from 2018 and 19 where IAF has categorically said that they would go with 6 Sqds of Mk2. IAF chief only said about the prospect of ordering Mk2. We have seen recently even in Mk1A case that how this man made crisis of chipset is affecting avionics delivery.

Mk2 would fly with F414 engines. How many 414's has been ordered? Do we have a clear line of sight for engine for both AMCA and Mk2? When will the JV fructify? Even for the planned 120 mk2, we don't have engines as of now. We have to go with a new deal for that. Now keep yourself in that position. AMCA is coming out by 2035, Mk2 is coming out by 2023. Now a product which is coming out in 2023 don't have adequate engines for the promised numbers. What you expect ACM to say?

 

[Shuturmurg]

 

[Shuturmurg]

Meanwhile kf-21 took first flight :

 

[Vamsi]

Meanwhile kf-21 took first flight :

This project started in 2001 & most of its tech is from US, while our project is fully indigenous

 

[abingdonboy]

Totally disappointing from the BJP govt. This govt has not taken any major steps or funding towards any major projects. Mk2, AMCA or the engine. Or IFV. Most of the naval ships under construction were planned long before them. None of the new plans have been materialized. They are good in making slogans with respect to nations defence.

AMCA (plus Engine JV), LCA MK.2, IMRH, SSNall crying out for projection funding/sanction

HTT-40, LUH, LCH, Arjun, ATAGS, ALH(NUH) all crying out for serious orders

On the naval from, like I keep saying after 2025-27 because of a lack of major ship orders in the last 3-4 years all major Indian yards (MDL, CSL, GRSE) will be empty of large ships. Given long lead times involved even if they ordered a new class in the next 2-3 years it won’t enter service until post 2030 now. So from 2025-27 to 2035+ the IN will basically induct no major warships- this is something that’s masked by the current boom (relatively speaking) on ship production with P-15B, P-17A, 11356 all being in various stages of production today but looking down the road another lost decade is on its way

 

[abingdonboy]

Rajnath Singh needs to crack the whip at the IAF chief, perhaps make some sounds about early dismissal of those who do not get on with the program that IAF needs to indigenize the fighters and be robust supporters of such programs.

Examples need to be made for sure but I’m not sure if Rajnath is that guy or if he knows himself which way is up in terms of defence

+ we all know the outrage that will be created should anything like that happen to interfere with well entrenched lobbies. AtTaCk On DeMoCrAcY

 

[abingdonboy]

Then it is quite simple. MoD will only buy Indian fighters and not any foreign fighters. If the pilots refuse to fly they see their pay forfeited and cashiered out of the service.

You gotta start cracking some heads to see some movement.

This is a political decision and they haven’t gone far enough with the negative import list and they’ve undermined that anyway by creating exemptions for foreign toys assembled (‘made’) in India.

+ pilots won’t refuse to fly, they are professionals and besides the reports from frontlines on LCA are almost exclusively positive. All the LCA pilot interviews I’ve heard praise the LCA’s handling and obviously it’s a step up on the junk many are used to flying (Migs, Jag etc), the FCS is as sophisticated as Rafales and allows for true care free handling. I think once they properly open up the envelope on MK1A the handling and ease of use for LCA will be only behind Rafale in the fleet.