ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[brat4]

if you want to develop your inhouse capability
AND have cutting edge war fighting
AND you think Indian solution are NOT cutting edge
AND have limited budget
THEN you will have to travel on both boats for sometime -

where you have just enough "imported" cutting edge warfighting while supporting indigenous solution.
going through hundreds of pages on this thread, no one has a problem with importing rafale - its the non-committal approach to Tejas - Mk2 thats not only raising eyebrows but also questioning the long term defence of the country.

 

[sakalasiva]

+ if they are playing these games with LCA MK.2 there is nothing to stop them doing so with AMCA. In 5-7 years I imagine the talk will switch to AMCA not being mature enough so they have to launch MRFA/MMRCA NG (F35) to get an ‘interim’ until AMCA is ‘ready’

Well you are wrong on AMCA. IAF choose AMCA because of no option. Remember their first choice pakfa. Since it is not useful and no other player will offer 5g tech iaf came to conclusion and started supporting AMCA. Always iaf wanted to customize imported aircrafts but no country is offering tot to customize the tech in aircrafts. They do not have any other option. So I do not think iaf have choice to go anywhere.

 

[abingdonboy]

Well you are wrong on AMCA. IAF choose AMCA because of no option. Remember their first choice pakfa. Since it is not useful and no other player will offer 5g tech iaf came to conclusion and started supporting AMCA. Always iaf wanted to customize imported aircrafts but no country is offering tot to customize the tech in aircrafts. They do not have any other option. So I do not think iaf have choice to go anywhere.

How can you say I’m wrong? What I’ve projected hasn’t even happened yet. Wait 5+ years and see the way it plays out. The Indian armed forces are very very predictable and nothing I’ve seen has changed my view that their import fixation will ensure they sabotage Indian products as a priority

 

[Chinmoy]

Wait what? You’re saying IAF are not ordering LCA MK.2 in large numbers because they are scared that engines won’t be delivered in time? This is not how it works. IAF signs a contract with the production agency and the production agency delivers the finished product 1-3 years later (36 months for fighter jets). LCA MK1A was signed in March 2021 and within a few months HAL had ordered engines for them.

You want HAL/ADA to start stockpiling engines in case the IAF decides to order it?300++ ALH are in service, have we ever heard of them not being delivered because of a lack of engine supply?

IAF are actively sabotaging the LCA MK.2 if this is their thought process. Never heard such imaginary concerns

It is not as idiotic as you are making it sound like. Why you think MEA is part of CCS? What you think MEA minister discuss about while sitting in a CCS meeting involving foreign product buy?

Now coming to second point, ofcourse the stake holders do sit together and work out combinations and permutations of the whole supply chain before coming on to a fixed number to be ordered and in what order.

Coming to third point, HAL has already started piling up on engines even before any formal order has been placed by IAF. How you think they have came to the conclusion that X number of planes would be ordered by IAF? Remember the MOU between HAL and GE of 2013 for 99 F414 engines? AMCA was only on paper at that time. TEDBF was nowhere. Tejas was powered up by 404. So how you think HAL reached the conclusion of signing an MOU for 99 414 engines?
We are making Shakti engine for ALH in India. So comparing it with GE engines is................................

@WARREN SS , its not always that subcomponents do get ordered after order placement. Sometimes they are done prior to order placement. In case of Tejas, we placed order of F404 engines even before the IOC order been placed. So it differs case wise.

 

[Chinmoy]

No TD, or prototype[may be some], only lsp which is pre ioc. and ioc given by iaf, once iaf test fires aams, after delivering some 20~30, foc. iaf buy 5 plus sqn of mwf up to 9 sqn or more depend on mrfa.

There would be 3 prototype and then LSP of 1 sqd.

As far as I know, 60 set of wheels, means 20 jets, has been already been ordered for. Nothing official ofcourse yet.

 

[vishnugupt]

Coming to third point, HAL has already started piling up on engines even before any formal order has been placed by IAF. How you think they have came to the conclusion that X number of planes would be ordered by IAF? Remember the MOU between HAL and GE of 2013 for 99 F414 engines? AMCA was only on paper at that time. TEDBF was nowhere. Tejas was powered up by 404. So how you think HAL reached the conclusion of signing an MOU for 99 414 engines?
We are making Shakti engine for ALH in India. So comparing it with GE engines is................................

@WARREN SS , its not always that subcomponents do get ordered after order placement. Sometimes they are done prior to order placement. In case of Tejas, we placed order of F404 engines even before the IOC order been placed. So it differs case wise.

Some time @Chinmoy give us feeling like we are talking to some unknown UN General.

He talk deceitful, Changing narrative, fabricating facts.

In real HAL has never order 99 GE 404 engine before CCS clearance. Merely ordering is nothing until you do payment. It was a mere contract not a deal or order.

Around 2012/13, 99 GE 414 contract came into existence after Import addicted UN Airforce back tracked from buying Tejas. ADA said they will make Tejas mk2 ( Not MWF) by just changing engine for which Import addict UN Generals greed. But as usual again back tracked and deal never took placed.

There was never a piling of engines took place neither for GE 404 or GE 414. Both engines imported for prototype development and after actual order.

 

[Chinmoy]

Some time @Chinmoy give us feeling like we are talking to some unknown UN General.

He talk deceitful, Changing narrative, fabricating facts.

In real HAL has never order 99 GE 404 engine before CCS clearance. Merely ordering is nothing until you do payment. It was a mere contract not a deal or order.

Around 2012/13, 99 GE 414 contract came into existence after Import addicted UN Airforce back tracked from buying Tejas. ADA said they will make Tejas mk2 ( Not MWF) by just changing engine for which Import addict UN Generals greed. But as usual again back tracked and deal never took placed.

There was never a piling of engines took place neither for GE 404 or GE 414. Both engines imported for prototype development and after actual order.

Ok President of UNSA (United Nation Stupid Association), where I said that 99 F404 engines has been ordered before CCS clearance?

 

[vishnugupt]

Ok President of UNSA (United Nation Stupid Association), where I said that 99 F404 engines has been ordered before CCS clearance?

UN General saab, you have habit of changing goal posts and making fake statements.

Now you can change meaning of Piling up and GE 404 engine order even before Tejas obtained IOC.

You are addicted to smell new fresh paint every day.

 

[Love Charger]

You’re moving the goalposts now aren’t you? You said Modi was ‘trying something’ and achieving better results than his predecessors, where’s the evidence for it? How many major deals have actually been signed under him? What major indigenous projects have taken off under him?

And he has plenty of experience as an executive, he should know by now that babus and netas lie and misrepresent. Everything I’ve heard about Modi is that he’s data driven and wants to see objective results. How is he not able to track this when it comes to MoD? The service chiefs report to the govt, it’s ultimately the fault of the govt if this nonsense goes on. 8 years is a bloody long time to have not made tangible gains, he’s allowed farces like P75I, NUH, MRFA, KA226, AK203 etc etc to occur and in some occasions he’s even encouraged it (KA226 and AK203)

How would I know anything sir , have faith in almighty ,he makes new induction possible

 

[Chinmoy]

UN General saab, you have habit of changing goal posts and making fake statements.

Now you can change meaning of Piling up and GE 404 engine order even before Tejas obtained IOC.

You are addicted to smell new fresh paint every day.

Yes you stupid.

Batch of 17 engines were ordered in 2004. IOC order was placed in 2006.

Batch of 24 engines were ordered in 2007. FOC order was placed in 2010.

Before showing off your stupidity, try to read.

 

[vishnugupt]

Yes you stupid.

Batch of 17 engines were ordered in 2004. IOC order was placed in 2006.

Batch of 24 engines were ordered in 2007. FOC order was placed in 2010.

Before showing off your stupidity, try to read.

You actually changed goal post now.

Now you are saying HAL order engine after getting orders from IAF while your original post say just opposite.

A True General general of addicted UN forces did not take even 30 minutes before turning 180°.

Now you can continue with that... I'm not interested to argue, just wanted to call out your duplicity.

 

[Chinmoy]

You actually changed goal post now.

Now you are saying HAL order engine after getting orders from IAF while your original post say just opposite.

A True General general of addicted UN forces did not take even 30 minutes before turning 180°.

Now you can continue with that... I'm not interested to argue, just wanted to call out your duplicity.

Hey stupid. Come to me. It seems your parents forgot to send you to school for just basic education to understand a point someone is making.

You nonsense..... Read it again.

@WARREN SS , its not always that subcomponents do get ordered after order placement. Sometimes they are done prior to order placement. In case of Tejas, we placed order of F404 engines even before the IOC order been placed. So it differs case wise.

 

[vishnugupt]

Hey stupid. Come to me. It seems your parents forgot to send you to school for just basic education to understand a point someone is making.

You nonsense..... Read it again.

I can use the same language but My parent sent me school, perhaps your's not

 

[Chinmoy]

I can use the same language but My parent sent me school, perhaps your's not

Sad for them. They should have atleast given attention on what their ward is learning at school.

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF COMMITTED TO INDUCT 6 TEJAS MK-2 FIGHTER SQUADRONS: AIR CHIEF VR CHAUDHARI
New Delhi: Fully backing the indigenous fighter aircraft programs, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari on Monday said the Indian Air Force has already given the commitment to buy six squadrons of the under development TEJAS MK-2 combat aircraft and would place more orders for these planes once their production begins.


“Indian Air Force has already given commitment for the induction of six squadrons of Light Combat Aircraft Mark 2 fighter jets. We will decide on additional numbers once the production of these aircraft starts,” Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari told ANI.

The IAF has already placed orders for four squadrons of the TEJAS MK-1A and has committed towards inducting at least seven squadrons of the fifth generation Indian fighter Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) which is also progressing very fast.

The TEJAS MK-2 fighter is intended to be the replacement for the Mirage 2000 and Jaguar fighters when they are due for phasing out after a decade.

Sharing details on the IAF plans for future inductions, Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari had stated that the force is looking at inducting aircraft only under the Make in India plan which includes the TEJAS MK-1A, TEJAS MK-2, AMCA along with the 114 multirole fighter aircraft.

The IAF has also decided that all its future surface-to-air ground weapon systems would be made in India and a large number of indigenous radars have already been deployed in operational areas.

IAF Committed To Induct 6 TEJAS MK-2 Fighter Squadrons: Air Chief VR Chaudhari

New Delhi: Fully backing the indigenous fighter aircraft programs, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari on Monday said the Indian Air Force has a...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[vishnugupt]

IAF COMMITTED TO INDUCT 6 TEJAS MK-2 FIGHTER SQUADRONS: AIR CHIEF VR CHAUDHARI
New Delhi: Fully backing the indigenous fighter aircraft programs, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari on Monday said the Indian Air Force has already given the commitment to buy six squadrons of the under development TEJAS MK-2 combat aircraft and would place more orders for these planes once their production begins.


“Indian Air Force has already given commitment for the induction of six squadrons of Light Combat Aircraft Mark 2 fighter jets. We will decide on additional numbers once the production of these aircraft starts,” Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari told ANI.

The IAF has already placed orders for four squadrons of the TEJAS MK-1A and has committed towards inducting at least seven squadrons of the fifth generation Indian fighter Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) which is also progressing very fast.

The TEJAS MK-2 fighter is intended to be the replacement for the Mirage 2000 and Jaguar fighters when they are due for phasing out after a decade.

Sharing details on the IAF plans for future inductions, Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari had stated that the force is looking at inducting aircraft only under the Make in India plan which includes the TEJAS MK-1A, TEJAS MK-2, AMCA along with the 114 multirole fighter aircraft.

The IAF has also decided that all its future surface-to-air ground weapon systems would be made in India and a large number of indigenous radars have already been deployed in operational areas.

IAF Committed To Induct 6 TEJAS MK-2 Fighter Squadrons: Air Chief VR Chaudhari

New Delhi: Fully backing the indigenous fighter aircraft programs, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari on Monday said the Indian Air Force has a...

www.indiandefensenews.in

Gyaanis will take it as a truth and final commitment but should I remind them that those were also UN Generals who gave requirment of 201 MWF then bring it 140 MWF and eventually now 120.

By 2026/27, IAF will end up ordering only 40 MWF. Then somebody have to show Generals their Aukat.

Funny thing is, it's not only people like me (Nonexistent) but PM called them a ADDICT. Shameless pathetic people have not idea what does it mean. Lolzz

 

[vishnugupt]

Ek modi ya parikar kar kya lega jab pura system unke khilaf hai

For some extent you are right.

But there is Negative import list.. this is matter of time when Medium catagory aircrafts will be put in it. Just wait for flight of MWF.

As soon as any systems come into existence (testing) government immediately put them into negative list.

 

[MonaLazy]

For some extent you are right.

But there is Negative import list.. this is matter of time when Medium catagory aircrafts will be put in it. Just wait for flight of MWF.

As soon as any systems come into existence (testing) government immediately put them into negative list.

Why wait for testing? That's pretty late in the dev cycle. It indicates to the armed forces that even the govt is not very confident in DRDO's capability (to be actually waiting on product realisation).

While it might make some sense for putting pressure on DRDO (you better deliver else we will import) - it means GoI & the services are not putting their heart and soul (often even money- looking at you GoI) behind it's success and are reduced to being observers of progress. Because services have no skin in the game their starting point is suffering a bout of brochuritis & sky high *SQRs far beyond the industrial capability of the country at that point in time. It's almost as if indigenous products are being set up for failure from the word go. Then the developer takes their own sweet time to come up with a prototype. The forces again subject it to endless trials & testing almost as if they are looking for breaking points with 0 appreciation of the package as is- again the game is rigged for failure of indigenous products.

So while the services pat themselves on the back for having set the impossible product trap - during dev and especially testing their pitch for imports gets shriller and shriller through various "interviews" to the media.

Have seen this sick pattern repeated endlessly with fighter aircraft, tanks, artillery guns, combat helicopters etc etc.

Burn the bridges I say! Just like with IGMDP once the user knows there is NO other option- they will be fully invested in the success of local products- starting with benign- or atleast realistic SQRs & then do iterative dev. Post Tejas induction into service all types of fighter aircraft should have been put in the negative import list already.

If Mk2 is even half as good as the Rafale we should back it fully and shun Rafale. Afterall we can buy 2-2.5 Mk2s in the price of one Rafale and most of that money stays within desh.

 

[vishnugupt]

Why wait for testing? That's pretty late in the dev cycle. It indicates to the armed forces that even the govt is not very confident in DRDO's capability (to be actually waiting on product realisation).

While it might make some sense for putting pressure on DRDO (you better deliver else we will import) - it means GoI & the services are not putting their heart and soul (often even money- looking at you GoI) behind it's success and are reduced to being observers of progress. Because services have no skin in the game their starting point is suffering a bout of brochuritis & sky high *SQRs far beyond the industrial capability of the country at that point in time. It's almost as if indigenous products are being set up for failure from the word go. Then the developer takes their own sweet time to come up with a prototype. The forces again subject it to endless trials & testing almost as if they are looking for breaking points with 0 appreciation of the package as is- again the game is rigged for failure of indigenous products.

So while the services pat themselves on the back for having set the impossible product trap - during dev and especially testing their pitch for imports gets shriller and shriller through various "interviews" to the media.

Have seen this sick pattern repeated endlessly with fighter aircraft, tanks, artillery guns, combat helicopters etc etc.

Burn the bridges I say! Just like with IGMDP once the user knows there is NO other option- they will be fully invested in the success of local products- starting with benign- or atleast realistic SQRs & then do iterative dev. Post Tejas induction into service all types of fighter aircraft should have been put in the negative import list already.

If Mk2 is even half as good as the Rafale we should back it fully and shun Rafale. Afterall we can buy 2-2.5 Mk2s in the price of one Rafale and most of that money stays within desh.

Government take decision after consulting with all departments. Every decision of government must have a reason. And that reason must strong enough which they can defend in public also. That's why Government always wait for perfect timing.

This will be suicidal if you ban everything just because you have inhouse project. When you develop a product you might face some unforeseen/unimaginable challenges.

Don't worry things will improve as it has became quite evident to public that Generals are rot in Armed forces.

 

[johnj]

IAF COMMITTED TO INDUCT 6 TEJAS MK-2 FIGHTER SQUADRONS: AIR CHIEF VR CHAUDHARI
New Delhi: Fully backing the indigenous fighter aircraft programs, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari on Monday said the Indian Air Force has already given the commitment to buy six squadrons of the under development TEJAS MK-2 combat aircraft and would place more orders for these planes once their production begins.


“Indian Air Force has already given commitment for the induction of six squadrons of Light Combat Aircraft Mark 2 fighter jets. We will decide on additional numbers once the production of these aircraft starts,” Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari told ANI.

The IAF has already placed orders for four squadrons of the TEJAS MK-1A and has committed towards inducting at least seven squadrons of the fifth generation Indian fighter Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) which is also progressing very fast.

The TEJAS MK-2 fighter is intended to be the replacement for the Mirage 2000 and Jaguar fighters when they are due for phasing out after a decade.

Sharing details on the IAF plans for future inductions, Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari had stated that the force is looking at inducting aircraft only under the Make in India plan which includes the TEJAS MK-1A, TEJAS MK-2, AMCA along with the 114 multirole fighter aircraft.

The IAF has also decided that all its future surface-to-air ground weapon systems would be made in India and a large number of indigenous radars have already been deployed in operational areas.

IAF Committed To Induct 6 TEJAS MK-2 Fighter Squadrons: Air Chief VR Chaudhari

New Delhi: Fully backing the indigenous fighter aircraft programs, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari on Monday said the Indian Air Force has a...

www.indiandefensenews.in

No new order to S400 or S500.