Sukhoi PAK FA

[Crusader53]

Check post #2592.

Yes, we may very well see a two seat PAK-FA for India.(FGFA) Yet, it's not optimized as a Strike Fighter/Bomber. That's like comparing a F-15B/D with a F-15E/K. Totally different roles...

 

[p2prada]

Yes, we may very well see a two seat PAK-FA for India.(FGFA) Yet, it's not optimized as a Strike Fighter/Bomber. That's like comparing a F-15B/D with a F-15E/K. Totally different roles...

Not necessary. How are we to know this for a fact?

Also B/D are trainer versions. Even MKI is a full fledged aircraft. IAF has never identified a two seat PMF as a trainer version.

 

[ersakthivel]

first of all we should know what is the RCS of FGFA of PAKFA, if it is more than F-22 and J-20 then IAF should reject it outright,

and ask SUKHOI to deliver a more stealthier version for the 20 billion dollar indian tax payer money that is going to be funneled into it's bank accounts,

In the same way as ADA was asked to deliver TEJAS mk-2 version with better capability, IAF should ask SUKHOI to deliver a much more stealthier mk-2 version of FGFA,It is a commercial contract not a charity, so there is nothing wrong in it.

The IAF asked ADA to change the AMCA deisgn for a much more stealthier version , the same should be applied to FGFA as well.

it is useless to introduce a so called 5th gen stealth fighter that has more RCS than what chinese J-20 and J-31,

Because with improvement in all bands of ASEA radar tech, a beach ball sized RCS of FGFA won't be of much use to be called as true blue 5th gen fighter,

This point is often glossed over, we are not buying PAKFA to have a compromise of super agility and stealth,

if FGFA is going to have a bigger RCS than AMCA , then what will be india's premier fighter?

 

[t_co]

first of all we should know what is the RCS of FGFA of PAKFA, if it is more than F-22 and J-20 then IAF should reject it outright,

and ask SUKHOI to deliver a more stealthier version for the 20 billion dollar indian tax payer money that is going to be funneled into it's bank accounts,

Can Sukhoi deliver a stealthier version? What if it can't?

In the same way as ADA was asked to deliver TEJAS mk-2 version with better capability, IAF should ask SUKHOI to deliver a much more stealthier mk-2 version of FGFA,It is a commercial contract not a charity, so there is nothing wrong in it.

The IAF asked ADA to change the AMCA deisgn for a much more stealthier version , the same should be applied to FGFA as well.

it is useless to introduce a so called 5th gen stealth fighter that has more RCS than what chinese J-20 and J-31,

Because with improvement in all bands of ASEA radar tech, a beach ball sized RCS of FGFA won't be of much use to be called as true blue 5th gen fighter,

Yep, which is why I have no idea why Sukhoi fanbois get so worked up about the PAKFA. The F-22 would eat its lunch in a straight fight

This point is often glossed over, we are not buying PAKFA to have a compromise of super agility and stealth,

if FGFA is going to have a bigger RCS than AMCA , then what will be india's premier fighter?

I'm sure India could always buy the J-31

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

we don't need third class j-31 and i am sure that even nepal and somalia would reject it.what we need is a 360 degree stealthy version of pak-fa.HAL has revealed a stealthy pak-fain aero india.but the final version needs to more stealthy.also i think india should immediately walk out of this programme since HAL enginners are gaining nothing from it.it will be just like the licenced production of su-30mki with some indian nutbolts.russia has already made the airframe and the radar.in the next two years they will deliver the 5th gen engine and india will only fund this programme and nothing else.

 

[t_co]

we don't need third class j-31 and i am sure that even nepal and somalia would reject it.what we need is a 360 degree stealthy version of pak-fa.HAL has revealed a stealthy pak-fain aero india.but the final version needs to more stealthy.also i think india should immediately walk out of this programme since HAL enginners are gaining nothing from it.it will be just like the licenced production of su-30mki with some indian nutbolts.russia has already made the airframe and the radar.in the next two years they will deliver the 5th gen engine and india will only fund this programme and nothing else.

I wholeheartedly agree here. Having the option for indigenous aircraft manufacture will be the only way India can get a fair deal from Russian or Western arms manufacturers, in the long run

 

[average american]

The Bharati defense industry is in a quandary. It has been unable to make the parts for its Russian defense equipment. Russian supply chain has proven to be totally unreliable. Bharat tried to make parts for its Mig 19s and Mig 21s. The Russians blamed the shoddy quality of the local parts on the crashes, while Delhi blamed the Russian for unreliable equipment. A Time of India report lists the Bharati dilemma.http://--------------/2011/05/unable-to-make-parts-delhi-seeks-non-russain-sources/ The best I can tell other then funding so far Indians Indias involvment with the PAK FA has been the location and designs of the decals on the plane.

I highly doubt that India could manufacture the PAK FA even if they had the plans.

If I was India I would not take it personally, the Russians cant get parts either. Most of Russias long range bombers are out of comission becasue of lack of spare parts especially in the area of engines.

 

[Crusader53]

I wholeheartedly agree here. Having the option for indigenous aircraft manufacture will be the only way India can get a fair deal from Russian or Western arms manufacturers, in the long run

Well, why didn't Russia let India in on the ground floor with the development of the PAK-FA??? Which, is what India must do with the AMCA. That is partner early on with a Aerospace Company (preferably Western) just a development starts! A perfect example in my opinion is Boeing with the F/A-XX Program for the USN.

 

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

Well India can very well do that...

 

[ersakthivel]

Can Sukhoi deliver a stealthier version? What if it can't?



Yep, which is why I have no idea why Sukhoi fanbois get so worked up about the PAKFA. The F-22 would eat its lunch in a straight fight



I'm sure India could always buy the J-31

In my humble opinion I don't think AMCA will be any less capable than J-31,

Also Sukhoi has the ability to redesign the PAKFA to a much higher level of stealth, I have no doubts about it, IAF should insist on it was the general idea of my post, like the way it customized sukhoi-30 MKI.

Even if SUKHOI is unwilling to do it for IAF , IAF should ask ADA and HAL combine to redesign it with assistance from SUKHOI as it is a joint venture only.

 

[ersakthivel]

The Bharati defense industry is in a quandary. It has been unable to make the parts for its Russian defense equipment. Russian supply chain has proven to be totally unreliable. Bharat tried to make parts for its Mig 19s and Mig 21s. The Russians blamed the shoddy quality of the local parts on the crashes, while Delhi blamed the Russian for unreliable equipment. A Time of India report lists the Bharati dilemma.http://--------------/2011/05/unable-to-make-parts-delhi-seeks-non-russain-sources/ The best I can tell other then funding so far Indians Indias involvment with the PAK FA has been the location and designs of the decals on the plane.

I highly doubt that India could manufacture the PAK FA even if they had the plans.

If I was India I would not take it personally, the Russians cant get parts either. Most of Russias long range bombers are out of comission becasue of lack of spare parts especially in the area of engines.

The crashes of migs were not due to substandard local parts , but due to substandard parts imported from from unreliable foreign suppliers.

See already the SUKHOI is being manufactured with 100 percent local components here from complete raw material stage in INDIA,

So there are no issues here,

 

[Austin]

patient filed by UAC on PAK-FA program

AIRCRAFT INTEGRATED aerodynamic design

 

[average american]

The problem is that India does not have a robust industrial/technology base to build their own modern 4th generation fighters. In fact there are major technical/project management issues encountered by HAL even in the assembly of Russian provided kits. (Nor does Russians to build a 5th generation plane either)

The unending delays in the supply of the Sukhoi-30 MKI jet fighter and the Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) to the Indian Air Force are symptomatic of the inefficient manner in which the public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) functions.

The indigenisation of the Sukhoi aircraft has more or less remained a pipe dream. (They are assembled mainly from the Russian-supplied knocked-down kit and there are problems even doing that)

It was supposed to reach an indigenisation level of 50-55 per cent in Phase IV of the delivery schedule, which doesn't seem to have been achieved.


Read more: MAIL TODAY COMMENT: It's time the inefficient Hindustan Aeronautics Limited was restructured | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Sometimes you cant see the forest for the trees.

 

[p2prada]

The problem is that India does not have a robust industrial/technology base to build their own modern 4th generation fighters. In fact there are major technical/project management issues encountered by HAL even in the assembly of Russian provided kits. (Nor does Russians to build a 5th generation plane either)

The unending delays in the supply of the Sukhoi-30 MKI jet fighter and the Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) to the Indian Air Force are symptomatic of the inefficient manner in which the public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) functions.

The indigenisation of the Sukhoi aircraft has more or less remained a pipe dream. (They are assembled mainly from the Russian-supplied knocked-down kit and there are problems even doing that)

It was supposed to reach an indigenisation level of 50-55 per cent in Phase IV of the delivery schedule, which doesn't seem to have been achieved.


Read more: MAIL TODAY COMMENT: It's time the inefficient Hindustan Aeronautics Limited was restructured | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Utter nonsense.

MKI is proceeding well, even with a very early two year delay that did not really affect the overall program because production was ramped up.

Indeginization is well over that silly 50-55% mark. It is much closer to 100%. That's because we still have to buy raw materials from Russia to support their vendors. But spares are made in India. Phase IV is nearing it's end.

India did not go for IJT, instead will buy a new IJT from the market.

What a hopeless article.

Sometimes you cant see the forest for the trees.

You, my friend, don't even know the difference between a forest and the city dump.

 

[average american]

Mail Online - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Do you have any idea why a on line news with 105 million subscribers would lie. Its part of the dailymail.co.uk

 

[p2prada]

Mail Online - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Do you have any idea why a on line news with 105 million subscribers would lie. Its part of the dailymail.co.uk

...says an American. Typical.

You, my friend, have a LOT to learn.

 

[average american]

...says an American. Typical.

You, my friend, have a LOT to learn.

I learned to face reality a long time ago.

Illusions commend themselves to us because they save us pain and allow us to enjoy pleasure instead. We must therefore accept it without complaint when they sometimes collide with a bit of reality against which they are dashed to pieces. ~Sigmund Freud

 

[p2prada]

Don't you know, the British think we set up our entire space program on a $300 Million aid?

The British have always posted lies about us. Ever since they lost the MRCA deal, they have been posting crap, now its almost always about our military, mainly the air force.

Don't worry, they will make up new stuff, and eternally ignorant people will lap it all up.

 

[average american]

Don't you know, the British think we set up our entire space program on a $300 Million aid?

The British have always posted lies about us. Ever since they lost the MRCA deal, they have been posting crap, now its almost always about our military, mainly the air force.

Don't worry, they will make up new stuff, and eternally ignorant people will lap it all up.

None are so ignorant as those that dont face reality.

There are currently two Russian engines being built for recent fighter aircraft designs. The $3.5 million AL-31 (for the Su-27/30 and the Chinese J-11 and J-10) and the $2.5 million RD-33/93 for the MiG-29 and the Chinese JF-17 (a F-16 type aircraft developed in cooperation with Pakistan). India already assembles the AL-31 engine for the Su-30 and simpler engines for the older MiG-21 and MiG-27. The assembly process is exacting and India has created thousands of technicians and engineers with valuable experience working on these engines.

So far, India has not been able to develop the technology to manufacture core components (that deal with very high pressures and temperatures) and buys these components from Russia. It is some of these components that are failing and India is telling the Russians that the problem must be fixed, soon, or Russia will lose more export sales.
Warplanes: India Battles Russia Over Quality Control

 

[Crusader53]

None are so ignorant as those that dont face reality.

There are currently two Russian engines being built for recent fighter aircraft designs. The $3.5 million AL-31 (for the Su-27/30 and the Chinese J-11 and J-10) and the $2.5 million RD-33/93 for the MiG-29 and the Chinese JF-17 (a F-16 type aircraft developed in cooperation with Pakistan). India already assembles the AL-31 engine for the Su-30 and simpler engines for the older MiG-21 and MiG-27. The assembly process is exacting and India has created thousands of technicians and engineers with valuable experience working on these engines.

So far, India has not been able to develop the technology to manufacture core components (that deal with very high pressures and temperatures) and buys these components from Russia. It is some of these components that are failing and India is telling the Russians that the problem must be fixed, soon, or Russia will lose more export sales.
Warplanes: India Battles Russia Over Quality Control

You may very well be wasting your time. As few here want to discuss serious issues or solution. The sky is blue and everything is great!