Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

[ezsasa]

See this is what I am talking about,

That dumbass zaid is not a officer, last year he got his ass kicked by saudis. Was released after getting hundred lashes on his behind.....

 

[Holy Triad]

Are you serious????????????? Porki officer??????? That's good for nothing Jahil Homoid.

I am seriously doubting your intelligence now in these matters.

See this is what I am talking about,

If its a authentic video, we should worry about the welfare of ours soldiers, thats all I am saying,
We should invest more in training and equipping

 

[Enquirer]

I agree with long range sniper guns issue. IA have just a limited number of NTW and OSV 96 to play with. But anyway if we talk about Kashmir as a play field, the SSG 69, SP66, PSG1 or Galil are more then adequate. Where you are standing eye ball to eye ball with enemy, 1000 mtr of engagement distance is the most practical one. Even in case of our soldiers getting sniped, they are targeted with standard 7.62 NATO rounds. They are not getting engaged with 50 cal rounds.

But yeah, a few of the rifles firing 300 Winchester rounds would be a welcome induction.

Moreover we are talking about a geography where you have to first spot your target among the foliage and caverns. Once you do that, ballistic computers could be used. These devices are generally used when you are engaging HVT on a mission specific role. On a day to day basis, these would be more cumbersome.

Dude! All the sniper rifles that you mentioned are worse then Dragunovs! Dragunov chambers 7.62x54 caliber while all the rest chamber 7.62x51 caliber!

Where did you read that IA jawans are targeted by 7.62 NATO rounds? I don't remember this being mentioned in any news article. Paki snipers do make use of 50 caliber Barrett or Bushmaster. A higher caliber bullet will be more resistant to wind effects (which probably would be plenty in the mountainous regions, that too in a swirling fashion)

Not sure why a ballistic computer would be cumbersome? If you want one-shot-one-kill, then you better use it! I don't think IA recruits Einsteins that can factor in wind velocity, earth's curvature etc in their head and spit out aiming angles in seconds!

 

[Enquirer]

I ve seen the systems which you are mentioning, the main issue seems to be in procurement process, horrendous and inexcusable delays prone to multiple GSQRs,RFIs etc

RED TAPES hurting our soldiers literally,

The RFIs at least have started. The biggest sin is not to have even considered them for so many decades!!!

 

[Chinmoy]

Dude! All the sniper rifles that you mentioned are worse then Dragunovs! Dragunov chambers 7.62x54 caliber while all the rest chamber 7.62x51 caliber!

Where did you read that IA jawans are targeted by 7.62 NATO rounds? I don't remember this being mentioned in any news article. Paki snipers do make use of 50 caliber Barrett or Bushmaster. A higher caliber bullet will be more resistant to wind effects (which probably would be plenty in the mountainous regions, that too in a swirling fashion)

Not sure why a ballistic computer would be cumbersome? If you want one-shot-one-kill, then you better use it! I don't think IA recruits Einsteins that can factor in wind velocity, earth's curvature etc in their head and spit out aiming angles in seconds!

Again, its not the bullet which determine the accuracy, but the precision making of gun and barrel. Dragunov is notorious for its accuracy over a distance exceeding 800 metres. If you compare its relative accuracy over the effective range, then it is much behind then our very old 303. The very reason why it is termed as DMR instead of a sniper rifle. Now a country like US who uses snipers as a doctrine of war fighting use M24 instead of a M82 or M107 as standard issue sniper rifles. But lets not get into technical specs of rifles here.

As far as targeting of our jawans are concerned, you might have come across news where they get airlifted after getting hit and in some cases recuperate. This type of survival is only possible in case of getting hit by 7.62 NATO. If they get hit by a 50cal round, the death would be instant and there would be no such cases of airlift to hospital. Even at a distance of 2000metre, a 50 cal round packs enough punch to disembowel a person even after putting on a BPJ.

As far as ballistic computers are concerned, few of the fields which needs inputs are type of ammo used, distance to target, wind direction, wind velocity temperature and most importantly height of the target. Now this very point makes it not so useful when we talk about using it as a standard in LOC. Even the pioneer US doesn't use it in field. This is only used when you have to make that one shot count and when your target is of immense high value.

 

[Chinmoy]

See this is what I am talking about,

They are using it in a uncontrolled situation when firing is going on. Checking a barrel for any small pebble infusion is nothing wrong. Its better to be sure then to repent. A small pebble in such a situation would cause the barrel to explode on face. Moreover he is not handling the trigger mech anywhere for accidental firing.

Jahil Homoid and his gangs are there just to make such propaganda video for own fapping.

 

[Holy Triad]

They are using it in a uncontrolled situation when firing is going on. Checking a barrel for any small pebble infusion is nothing wrong. Its better to be sure then to repent. A small pebble in such a situation would cause the barrel to explode on face. Moreover he is not handling the trigger mech anywhere for accidental firing.

Jahil Homoid and his gangs are there just to make such propaganda video for own fapping.

1. I can understand the logic behind checking the barrel for free of blockage,but in any military or law enforcement agencies, it is advised not to look down the barrel or point it towards anyone. Its Basic 101,
2. And ofcourse our enemies use it for propaganda purposes, but its our duty to provide basic training and equipment. For me, its NOT that particular soldiers fault. We don't know the actual situation he was in...

 

[Chinmoy]

1. I can understand the logic behind checking the barrel for free of blockage,but in any military or law enforcement agencies, it is advised not to look down the barrel or point it towards anyone. Its Basic 101,
2. And ofcourse our enemies use it for propaganda purposes, but its our duty to provide basic training and equipment. For me, its NOT that particular soldiers fault. We don't know the actual situation he was in...

The basic 101 also mentions about to be sure before firing.

Basic training ??? In sniping???

Are you here for trolling?

 

[Holy Triad]

The basic 101 also mentions about to be sure before firing.

Basic training ??? In sniping???

Are you here for trolling?

Forget sniping, I am talking about any rifle HANDLING.

 

[Chinmoy]

Forget sniping, I am talking about any rifle HANDLING.

Could you tell me what is wrong in his handling?

 

[Holy Triad]

He loaded the magazine,charged it( when you charge a rifle a live round goes into the chamber and the bolt face lock it in position)

And he looked down the barrel with a live round in it.( whether loaded or not weapons instructors always says to consider it as a loaded weapon, because of negligent discharge)

 

[Chinmoy]

He loaded the magazine,charged it( when you charge a rifle a live round goes into the chamber and the bolt face lock it in position)

And he looked down the barrel with a live round in it.( whether loaded or not weapons instructors always says to consider it as a loaded weapon, because of negligent discharge)

Weapon instructor always also say about making sure that no foreign object goes into the barrel. Look at the environment where he is firing. Small pebble or rock could always enter the barrel and although its not a general practice to check the barrel, but no harm in double checking it.

Are you thinking that he checked whether the round is there in chamber or not. Seems your and Jahil Homoid thought process match a lot.

 

[Holy Triad]

Weapon instructor always also say about making sure that no foreign object goes into the barrel. Look at the environment where he is firing. Small pebble or rock could always enter the barrel and although its not a general practice to check the barrel, but no harm in double checking it.

Are you thinking that he checked whether the round is there in chamber or not. Seems your and Jahil Homoid thought process match a lot.

Do you agree that we have to invest more in the training and equipment, or not
By saying my thought process is with the enemy is hurts me a lot.
Regardless of your accusation,my interests lies with the safety of the soldier, I request you to share your not berate others. Mainstream medias doesn't provide enough information about our military affairs,so some of us come here to ask and learn about development in the defence sector.
All of My questions here all related to only one thing, that is how to reduce casualties of our troops.

 

[Chinmoy]

Do you agree that we have to invest more in the training and equipment, or not
By saying my thought process is with the enemy is hurts me a lot.
Regardless of your accusation,my interests lies with the safety of the soldier, I request you to share your not berate others. Mainstream medias doesn't provide enough information about our military affairs,so some of us come here to ask and learn about development in the defence sector.
All of My questions here all related to only one thing, that is how to reduce casualties of our troops.

Then let me tell you something. Our weapon handling training is at par with any of the world armies. We do need specific training as far as sniping is concerned, and this is what the main topic was.

The amount of information which is provided by our media on issues of armed force is exponentially high then any other country. If paki media would have published even half of ours regarding their army, their armed forces would have lost their face many times over in their country.

 

[ezsasa]

Do you agree that we have to invest more in the training and equipment, or not
By saying my thought process is with the enemy is hurts me a lot.
Regardless of your accusation,my interests lies with the safety of the soldier, I request you to share your not berate others. Mainstream medias doesn't provide enough information about our military affairs,so some of us come here to ask and learn about development in the defence sector.
All of My questions here all related to only one thing, that is how to reduce casualties of our troops.

But you have to realise the fact that Indian military does not have their own dedicated PR agency, unlike US, UK, China and Pakistan.

Starting a discussion based on a paki propagandist is a disservice to the forces in itself.

We don’t know how old this video is, where it was taken and in what circumstances.

Unlike the other countries mentioned above, there is no one officially to respond to enemy’s propaganda.

You sir are getting sentimental about a video released by some one who is part of paki propaganda machinery, you are furthering their agenda.

 

[pankaj nema]

Our soldiers are patrolling the LOC

That makes them easier targets

Pakis don't patrol in day time

They have begun night patrols after our Surgical strikes

This was shown in a Wajahat Khan video

 

[Holy Triad]

Then let me tell you something. Our weapon handling training is at par with any of the world armies. We do need specific training as far as sniping is concerned, and this is what the main topic was.

The amount of information which is provided by our media on issues of armed force is exponentially high then any other country. If paki media would have published even half of ours regarding their army, their armed forces would have lost their face many times over in their country.

I agree with you brother, our soldiers standards far better than most in the world,as I told you earlier, I dont blame that soldier, I strongly believe this is the case of an isolated incident.

As far as the media comment is about, I'm talking about indepth or elaborate coverage especially in print media. You won't find more than 300words article and lacks specifics like stone pelters heinous role of distracting the active operation.

 

[Chinmoy]

I agree with you brother, our soldiers standards far better than most in the world,as I told you earlier, I dont blame that soldier, I strongly believe this is the case of an isolated incident.

As far as the media comment is about, I'm talking about indepth or elaborate coverage especially in print media. You won't find more than 300words article and lacks specifics like stone pelters heinous role of distracting the active operation.

In Indian media you only need to decide what kind of story you have to read. On one side we have likes of raNDTV who just makes heroes out of terrorists and stone pelters and on other side we have ZEE and others who don't mention them more then a pig.

Its just a cup of soup you have to pick up as per your liking.

 

[Holy Triad]

But you have to realise the fact that Indian military does not have their own dedicated PR agency, unlike US, UK, China and Pakistan.

Starting a discussion based on a paki propagandist is a disservice to the forces in itself.

We don’t know how old this video is, where it was taken and in what circumstances.

Unlike the other countries mentioned above, there is no one officially to respond to enemy’s propaganda.

You sir are getting sentimental about a video released by some one who is part of paki propaganda machinery, you are furthering their agenda.

I totally agree with you word by word. If my sharing of the video,offended anyone, I apologize. My view and reason behind posting is slow modernization process is hurting troops. Modernization surely happening, I just want it to be implemented sooner.

Again I will not think of our heroes any less than before, just because of a dumb single minded porkis tweet. And I know The same soldier is defending my freedom.

 

[ezsasa]

I totally agree with you word by word. If my sharing of the video,offended anyone, I apologize. My view and reason behind posting is slow modernization process is hurting troops. Modernization surely happening, I just want it to be implemented sooner.

Again I will not think of our heroes any less than before, just because of a dumb single minded porkis tweet. And I know The same soldier is defending my freedom.

Just remember this my friend, in India 70% of journalists won’t defend the forces, their word depends entirely on what their political masters decree.

It is us the people who have to be more informed and sensible.

Modernisation not happening faster is a perception and a myth..

Lists of some major defence deals signed/cleared under Modi Sarkar since 2014:

2014

[emoji830]118 Arjun Mk-2 Tanks.
[emoji830]262 Barak-1 SAMs.

2015

* 36 Rafale Fighter Jets.
* 22 AH-64E Apache Attack Helicopters.
* 15 CH-47F Chinook Transport Choppers.
* 10 Heron TP MALE UAVs.
* 7 Next-Generation Stealth Frigates.
* 6 Nuclear-Powered Attack Submarines.
* Akash SR-SAM Systems (7 Squadrons).
* 428 L-70 & ZU-23 AD Guns.
* 72 Pipistrel Virus ultra light training aircraft
* 1 Missile Range instrumentation ship
* 1 Ocean Surveillance Ship


2016

* 145 M-777 Ultra Light Howitzers.
* 114 Dhanush Howitzers.
* 83 LCA Tejas Mk-1A.
* 15 Light Combat Helicopter (LCH).
* 464 T-90SM Tanks.
* BrahMos Missile (1 Regiment).
* Pinaka MBRL (2 Regiments).
* 4 P-8i Neptune.
* 2 Deep-submergence rescue vehicle

2017

* 1,58,279 Advanced Combat Helmets (ACHs).
* Barak-8 MR-SAM Systems (5 Regiments).
* Barak-8 LR-SAM Systems (4 Warships).
* Akash SR-SAM Systems (2 Regiments).
* 100 K-9 Vajra-T Howitzers.
* 44,000 Night Vision Devices (NVDs).
* 179 HAL Light Combat Helicopters (LCHs).
* 32 HAL Dhruv Helicopters.
* 100 Barak-1 SR-SAMs.
* 2 A-50EI AWACS.
* Dornier Do228 for Indian Navy
* 12 Dornier Do228 for Indian Airforce
* 16 Anti Submarine Shallow Water corvette
* 2 Diving Support Vessel


2018

* 1,86,138 Bullet Proof Jackets (BPJs).
* 5 S-400 Triumf SAM Systems.
* Akash SR-SAM Systems (2 Regiments).
* Barak-8 LR-SAM Systems (7 Warships).
* 150 Advanced Towed Artillery Gun Systems.
* 6 AH-64E Apache Attack Helicopters.
* 22 HAL Dhruv Helicopters.
* 18 HAL Rudra Helicopters.
* 300 155mm Sharang Field Gun Systems.
* 156 BMP-2/2K Infantry Combat Vehicles (ICVs).
* NAG ATGM Systems (300 Missiles & 25 Carriers).
* 131 Barak-1 SR-SAMs.
* 240 Precision Guided Bombs.
* 2 Stealth Frigates (Project 11356).
* IAI sky capture C2 system
* 4 Ocean Survey vessels for Indian Navy