Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

[WARREN SS]

Operation Meghadoot was a possibility in early 80’s but not now.

You can't explain call of duty fanboys about ground reality they think that our enemies are bunch of fanatic goons with sticks but not organised Army of another country

They wan't another chawinda to happen only fools take there enemies lightly

Not to tell Pakistani's has one the highest gun ratio in the world

Many people live close to lOC are retired soldiers who in the time of war or CFV will work in mujahid force of PA as force multiplyers

Then again all they wan't.to satisfy there fustration in life by looking cool on internet talking false bravado they see in movies

 

[aditya10r]

So a few days back I met a retired army Lt Gen.

His impression on India Pak is quite different from what we usually discuss.

He said until unless we don't go more psychotic against Pakistan,it will always be a cat and mouse game.No matter how many wars we fight the way we have been fighting will not end waves of terror or Kashmir issue,no matter how many soldiers of jehadis we kill of Pak army,they will continue this.

His personal idea take on this is issue is that India should aim to be a complete hegemon in entire south Asia and a major force in SEA.

He also noted that the kind of response they are receiving is what they deserve and it was due for 20-30 years,no other leader post Indira Gandhi has shown such a harsh response.

First of all,he thinks the nuke jewels of Pakistan needs to robbed away,he noted that army have satellites that keep watching their nuke facilities and air force is capable enough of taking down their nuke sites and warheads within 12 hours,a window good enough for us to strike and destroy their nukes but window not big enough that they can fuel their nukes and move in.

Only after achieving this we can go full on after them.

Peace with pakistan is impossible even if sun rises from the West.

 

[pankaj nema]

and this is my reply


1) I don't talk about this its the report which CAG everytime comes out. When the triservice say we are ready what makes you think you are not?
The security runs with contradiction and countering each other so that lapse can be found. You are immature people who have least idea how agencies an institution work.

2) When I say about war, I repeat and I have also quoted my posts that prepare for full scale war as the intel inputs come. If the inputs don't come still remain on standby when you are engaged in local skirmish.



1 ) You can never prepare and can never be ready if your goal is only to defend. You will stop all your procurement or make it slow once it is realized that they are sufficient to DEFEND. This is where I don't agree with the strategist.


From day one I have only given emphasis on strategic points to be taken care of. Why because in any case if there is heavy toll on Indian forces in J&K it is only because enemy would be sitting on the strategic heights.

India is fully capable to take on Neelam valley but the south block fears escalation upto a point of nuclear exchange.



Musharraf lost because he did not mobilize the required logistics kept it secret. Otherwise every one in the top seat know if whole Pak military had carried out this operation, India was in no condition to vacate it and was left with only one option which is open front in Punjab. Just like Lal Bahadur Shastri did in 65.
Kargil was nothing but exactly the half way to same scenario to 65 war.

What nonsense, if most of India wants status quo why you show POK as a part of India in map?



Pakistan has given us enough opportunities where even if India crosses LC there won't be diplomatic scare. And FYI India can cross LC beyond point NJ9842 because there even LC is not demarcated.

You need a political will that's all. This is why I say past so many years Pak has successfully created an atmosphere in India through its lobbyist that India can't cross LC, India cant take few important heights in POK, etc etc. And people like you have become victims of it. And also few officers in army and few strategists too.

On your repeated Insistence about Taking back POK
I tried to do some Map reading

Google maps is Not good for POK

So I tried MAPCARTA ; Mapcarta is excellent It has very detailed maps of all the Tiny hamlets and Pakistani Posts across LOC

So I looked for The Bulge between Uri and Poonch

As you Know Uri and Poonch are at the Two points of LOC

And The territory between is POK or HAJI PIR Pass as they say

You would be absolutely surprised to see the large number of small villages between them

And I think that pakistan has purposefully Settled a large number of people in the Uri Poonch bulge
there so that if a war happens and we try to take that territory; they would have plenty of places to hide and attack us and also the local people would provide food and shelter

Anybody interested in POK should look at Mapcarta

 

[WARREN SS]

So a few days back I met a retired army Lt Gen.

His impression on India Pak is quite different from what we usually discuss.

He said until unless we don't go more psychotic against Pakistan,it will always be a cat and mouse game.No matter how many wars we fight the way we have been fighting will not end waves of terror or Kashmir issue,no matter how many soldiers of jehadis we kill of Pak army,they will continue this.

His personal idea take on this is issue is that India should aim to be a complete hegemon in entire south Asia and a major force in SEA.

He also noted that the kind of response they are receiving is what they deserve and it was due for 20-30 years,no other leader post Indira Gandhi has shown such a harsh response.

First of all,he thinks the nuke jewels of Pakistan needs to robbed away,he noted that army have satellites that keep watching their nuke facilities and air force is capable enough of taking down their nuke sites and warheads within 12 hours,a window good enough for us to strike and destroy their nukes but window not big enough that they can fuel their nukes and move in.

Only after achieving this we can go full on after them.

Peace with pakistan is impossible even if sun rises from the West.

Let me tell u first we have to make India as 8-10 trillion economy a major world power

With at least 0ver 100+ billion $ budget

With 70% indegenousation with private and public enterprises


That will make our hegemony in the region
Will PLA will think thrice meddling in our affairs

2030 is best time

Kashmiri will be broken by then due to lust for money and materialism and society as whole will be more progressed and our border security will be more tight

 

[Screambowl]

My conclusion after long posts after posts:

a lot of people don't want escalation due to multiple reasons be it unpreparedness, economic sanctions, etc etc. There is no unanimous thought and concern on POK in the minds of fellow Indians.
This adds to inaction taking place past decades and probably will continue in future. Dangerous situation.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Some of us need to understand what i am going to explain in this post...

The firing on LOC has been a regular affair and even cross loc raids are conducted regularly in each others territory.

These raids target a post which has 8-20 soldiers and sometimes multiple targets in the same night.

When the raid is completed and all the soldiers are killed or injured our soldiers come back into our territory.

HERE IS THE MAIN THING

Instead of coming back if the raiding party is replaced by infantrymen and the post is taken into our side what more did we have to do than what we already did?

Now the question comes of holding it.We can easily increase the number of troops and bunkers/sangars there and the troops can improvise using IEDs.

If 30 of our own troops are deployed then Pakis will need atleast 300 to attack and win.Arty can come in plus the other Indian posts can provide cover fire.

Most of us have no knowledge of military ops conducted on the LOC.

To think of AF,Brahmos and Navy or to capture whole of POK is wrong.


To those saying...yeah but we will loose troops ..i want to ask you...How many troops did we loose in 2017? Civilians bsf crpf included?

And how much more do you think we might loose in this scenario.

I know most of you dont give a fuck about people dying in Jammu and to be honest most of you wont even know why firing on civilians is being carried out in Jammu.

And to those who dont understand the basics of military stratergy at play in the state how can things be clear.

 

[WARREN SS]

a lot of people here fear escalation
there is no unanimous thought on POK in the minds of fellow Indians.
And I woudlnt be surprized if many fail to spot POK on the Map.

Mujhe mat bataa 5 baar udampur HQ gya Hoon mein

nagrota , sopore ,hadwara,hajjin been to all places

2 baar jaata Hoon saal mein audit karne

Many of my friends posted there in RR and other regiments

 

[Pandeyji]

So a few days back I met a retired army Lt Gen.

His impression on India Pak is quite different from what we usually discuss.

He said until unless we don't go more psychotic against Pakistan,it will always be a cat and mouse game.No matter how many wars we fight the way we have been fighting will not end waves of terror or Kashmir issue,no matter how many soldiers of jehadis we kill of Pak army,they will continue this.

His personal idea take on this is issue is that India should aim to be a complete hegemon in entire south Asia and a major force in SEA.

He also noted that the kind of response they are receiving is what they deserve and it was due for 20-30 years,no other leader post Indira Gandhi has shown such a harsh response.

It is being done. See the news, 10k of our civilians of Jammu (kudos to them) are in relief camps. What we don't understand is an equal no. of Pakistani civilians (if not more) are forced to move too. Infact, we are deliberately targetting their villages & settlements, hence the butthurt by them. Also, laying IED at or across LOC by our soldiers is also a new norm.

Mujhe mat bataa 5 baar udampur HQ gya Hoon mein

nagrota , sopore ,hadwara,hajjin been to all places

2 baar jaata Hoon saal mein audit karne

Many of my friends posted there in RR and other regiments

Don't lose patience over this guy. And please control yourself or you may disclose your identity in anger

 

[James-bond]

Let tell first we have to make India as 8-10 trillion economy a major world power

With at least 0ver 100+ billion $ budget

With 70% indegenousation with private and public enterprises


That will make our hegemony in the region
Will PLA will think thrice meddling in our affairs

2030 is best time

Kashmiri will be broken by then due to lust for money and materialism and society as whole will be more progressed and our border security will be more tight

You can't explain call of duty fanboys about ground reality they think that our enemies are bunch of idiots.

Many porkis thinks Hindu baniyas are only CARE ABOUT MONEY AND MATERIAL let muslim population India increase (2030) like Kashmir we would kill/rape/throw out Hindus (happening in Kerallah and Waste Bengal) and slowly re-capture entire India.

Never underestimate JIHADI mindset. India is 7 times stronger than porkis if we cant retake pok and independent Balcoh now it can't possible ever.

 

[pankaj nema]

Some of us need to understand what i am going to explain in this post...

The firing on LOC has been a regular affair and even cross loc raids are conducted regularly in each others territory.

These raids target a post which has 8-20 soldiers and sometimes multiple targets in the same night.

When the raid is completed and all the soldiers are killed or injured our soldiers come back into our territory.

HERE IS THE MAIN THING

Instead of coming back if the raiding party is replaced by infantrymen and the post is taken into our side what more did we have to do than what we already did?

Now the question comes of holding it.We can easily increase the number of troops and bunkers/sangars there and the troops can improvise using IEDs.

If 30 of our own troops are deployed then Pakis will need atleast 300 to attack and win.Arty can come in plus the other Indian posts can provide cover fire.

Most of us have no knowledge of military ops conducted on the LOC.

To think of AF,Brahmos and Navy or to capture whole of POK is wrong.


To those saying...yeah but we will loose troops ..i want to ask you...How many troops did we loose in 2017? Civilians bsf crpf included?

And how much more do you think we might loose in this scenario.

I know most of you dont give a fuck about people dying in Jammu and to be honest most of you wont even know why firing on civilians is being carried out in Jammu.

And to those who dont understand the basics of military stratergy at play in the state how can things be clear.

We have relocated 40 thousand people ie civilians

Now that is taken care of

Do you think that occupying one post will stop pakistani firing

No that is Because the posts in POK are not in a Straight line

Some are adjacent to each other and there are 2 or 3 Tiers of posts ie One behind another so that if one post falls they will regroup and attack from the one behind it

Now the question is what can stop the Pakistani firing

Only one word Firepower

When we start raining down 155 MM shells and Also use the Air force to knock out their Company HQ s and Batallion HQs

The pakis will come crawling for peace

Their Company HQ s and Batallion HQs will have to be first razed to the Ground

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

We have relocated 40 thousand people ie civilians

Now that is taken care of

Do you think that occupying one post will stop pakistani firing

No that is Because the posts in POK are not in a Straight line

Some are adjacent to each other and there are 2 or 3 Tiers of posts ie One behind another so that if one post falls they will regroup and attack from the one behind it

Now the question is what can stop the Pakistani firing

Only one word Firepower

When we start raining down 155 MM shells and Also use the Air force to knock out their Company HQ s and Batallion HQs

The pakis will come crawling for peace

Their Company HQ s and Batallion HQs will have to be first razed to the Ground

I am talking about specifically targetting posts which are at a dominating position and to target them.

I am not saying that the entire loc should be changed.

This is something Indian Army or Pak army does once in 10 year since almost 50 years now.

Its nothing new.

 

[Pandeyji]

I am talking about specifically targetting posts which are at a dominating position and to target them.

I am not saying that the entire loc should be changed.

This is something Indian Army or Pak army does once in 10 year since almost 50 years now.

Its nothing new.

That is already being done, Sir.

 

[WARREN SS]

Some of us need to understand what i am going to explain in this post...

The firing on LOC has been a regular affair and even cross loc raids are conducted regularly in each others territory.

These raids target a post which has 8-20 soldiers and sometimes multiple targets in the same night.

When the raid is completed and all the soldiers are killed or injured our soldiers come back into our territory.

HERE IS THE MAIN THING

Instead of coming back if the raiding party is replaced by infantrymen and the post is taken into our side what more did we have to do than what we already did?

Now the question comes of holding it.We can easily increase the number of troops and bunkers/sangars there and the troops can improvise using IEDs.

If 30 of our own troops are deployed then Pakis will need atleast 300 to attack and win.Arty can come in plus the other Indian posts can provide cover fire.

Most of us have no knowledge of military ops conducted on the LOC.

To think of AF,Brahmos and Navy or to capture whole of POK is wrong.


To those saying...yeah but we will loose troops ..i want to ask you...How many troops did we loose in 2017? Civilians bsf crpf included?

And how much more do you think we might loose in this scenario.

I know most of you dont give a fuck about people dying in Jammu and to be honest most of you wont even know why firing on civilians is being carried out in Jammu.

And to those who dont understand the basics of military stratergy at play in the state how can things be clear.

I never said the we should not launch strikes and statergic raids on beyond LOC

But me as a inside beaurucrat working in MoD know how things are

Don't think we are ready to launch hasty raid on POK with preparation for longterm objective

Can you tell me surely that we will successful in that cause

Even in kaargil we are only able to capture 40-50% of the peaks from Pakistan after firing 3 lakh shells and launching thousand offensive and counter offensive raids

After de escalation PA retreated from.rest of the peaks
Still holds few though

UPA 10 years were curse for our defense capabilities

They made no effort to develop offensive war capicity

Multiple audit report highlighted that after


I only want to attack and break thrashold when we are ready enough

 

[WARREN SS]

You can't explain call of duty fanboys about ground reality they think that our enemies are bunch of idiots.

Many porkis thinks Hindu baniyas are only CARE ABOUT MONEY AND MATERIAL let muslim population India increase (2030) like Kashmir we would kill/rape/throw out Hindus (happening in Kerallah and Waste Bengal) and slowly re-capture entire India.

Never underestimate JIHADI mindset. India is 7 times stronger than porkis if we cant retake pok and independent Balcoh now it can't possible ever.

Bacche 1 billion Hindus Hain hum Shivaji aur Rana Pratap ka khoon hai

Though I don't like your mindset of doughting every Muslims

There division within muslims them selves amoung Shia and sunnis.

I don't like views in these regard

 

[pankaj nema]

I am talking about specifically targetting posts which are at a dominating position and to target them.

I am not saying that the entire loc should be changed.

This is something Indian Army or Pak army does once in 10 year since almost 50 years now.

Its nothing new.

If we have to take a Mountain Feature we have to use Artillery and Air force

The Infantry cannot just walk in

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I never said the we should not launch strikes and statergic raids on beyond LOC

But I as inside beaurucrat working in MoD know how thinks are

Don't think we are ready to launch hasty raid on POK with preparation for longterm objective

Can you tell me surely that we will successful in that cause

Even in kaargil we are only able to capture 40-50% of the peaks from Pakistan after firing 3 lakh shells and launching thousand offensive and counter offensive raids

After de escalation PA retreated from.rest of the peaks
Still holds few though

UPA 10 years were curse for our defense capabilities

They made no effort to develop offensive war capicity

Multiple audit report highlighted that after


I only want to attack and break thrashold when we are ready enough

My post was not at you but at the discussion going on in the thread.

Since you asked me a question i will answer that..

Yes i think the SF along with Ghatak and our non state actors can surely take 3 to 5 posts a month and keep it for sometime.

Its not new..has happened before.

 

[Screambowl]

Mujhe mat bataa 5 baar udampur HQ gya Hoon mein

nagrota , sopore ,hadwara,hajjin been to all places

2 baar jaata Hoon saal mein audit karne

Many of my friends posted there in RR and other regiments

OFF TOPIC:

zada mat bol ...jis din decision a gaya us din 2 nahi permanent baithega tu LC par, audit karney. permanent guest house allot karwa denge tujhe. Isliye teri phati hui hai ab samjhaa..
aur jo taxis ke fake bills hotey hai aur TA banta hai us para zara dhyan se kaam kiya kar.. dosti yari mein bohot nuksaan karwatey ho tum audit waley.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

If we have to take a Mountain Feature we have to use Artillery and Air force

The Infantry cannot just walk in

Arty along with missiles RL and mortars are enough.

AF jets will make a noise that will reach US white house and UN assembly.

 

[tharun]

On your repeated Insistence about Taking back POK
I tried to do some Map reading

Google maps is Not good for POK

So I tried MAPCARTA ; Mapcarta is excellent It has very detailed maps of all the Tiny hamlets and Pakistani Posts across LOC

So I looked for The Bulge between Uri and Poonch

As you Know Uri and Poonch are at the Two points of LOC

And The territory between is POK or HAJI PIR Pass as they say

You would be absolutely surprised to see the large number of small villages between them

And I think that pakistan has purposefully Settled a large number of people in the Uri Poonch bulge
there so that if a war happens and we try to take that territory; they would have plenty of places to hide and attack us and also the local people would provide food and shelter

Anybody interested in POK should look at Mapcarta

I tried to look into POK in Mapcarta but difficult in finding the which is on our side and which is POK.
It's quite tough to see without the boundary markings

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Lado mat yaar!

Try to find a solution and discuss alternatives.

Keep politics out and discuss miltary tactics and current situation..that is why we signed up here.