Russia Ukraine War 2022

Who will win this war?.


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Corvus Splendens

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The japanese didnt surrender due to nukes. They surrendered due to Russia invading Manchuria. Perhaps the even more economic alternative for US would've been for it to twiddle its thumbs and wait for Stalin to sign the order after his morning coffee exactly 30 seconds after hitler offed himself.
That's post-fact. US was counting on the Japanese to get scared and surrender. The nukes were also meant for USSR to not get funny ideas of invading Japan as America wanted to hold Japan's future in it's own hands firmly. US was already irked with the idea of "sharing" Germany with Soviets, they'd not allow a repeat of that.
 

sachincba

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I don't think that is true.

Japan was not "defeated" even in 1945 - or atleast the military was not going to accept defeat. They would have most likely shifted to guerrila warfare as the Allied invasion carried out in mainland Japan. Infact, the reason why there was such a heavy bombing campaign in Japan and why nuclear bombs were dropped was because of how the supply chain worked in Japan - it was not factories manufacturing things, but rather neighborhoods integrated tightly into the development chain. One neighborhood would work on thing X, the next one on item Y, and next week or next month it would all be collected and formed into the final product. In that sense, they were like the Vietnamese.

You can find lots of memoirs/resources about how it worked, however dropping the nuclear bomb or not, the outcome was still the same for the Allies - they would win, dropping two atomic bombs just cemented their power on the global food chain and prevented a lot of needless deaths for both parties anyway
My dear, why do you say like this. "Atom bombs cemented US power on the global food chain". The way to say this in reverse would be that US wouldn't have been at top of the world had it not used nuclear bomb. And the corollary to this would be that using nuclear bombs, one can reach at the top of the world.
 

GaudaNaresh

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Yeah, the japanese were definitely more scared of the soviets than the americans :troll:
No, the soviets invaded the LAST source of japanese iron & coal : manchuria.

here is the chronology of events, yanktard:

August 6th, 1945: Murrica nukes Hiroshima
August 9th, 1945: Murrica nukes Nagasaki
August 9th, 1945: Russian invasion of Manchuria commences
August15th, 1945: Russia wins decisive series of battles in Manchruia, Emperor Hirohito announces 'surrender' of Japan
August 20th: 1945: Russia formally declares Manchuria campaign closed, with 20-80K japanese KIA and ~0.5M POWs.

Causality is pretty easy to see here, bud.
 

GaudaNaresh

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That's post-fact. US was counting on the Japanese to get scared and surrender. The nukes were also meant for USSR to not get funny ideas of invading Japan as America wanted to hold Japan's future in it's own hands firmly. US was already irked with the idea of "sharing" Germany with Soviets, they'd not allow a repeat of that.
It isnt post-fact that Japan surrendered due to Russian invasion & victories in Manchuria. Japan didnt surrender due to being scared. As the actual chain of events show. If they were scared, they'd not have waited nearly a WEEK after being nuked and then surrendered, which 'happened to be' within 24 hrs of Russia winning Battle of Mutachiang, where 50,000 Japanese soldiers died.
 

Ylside

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Finally some sanity restored and Russia decided to use its Black sea fleet for strikes.
They never stopped using it for missile strikes, but always from a safe distance. What do you think, from where were flying all those Kalibr missiles RuSSia spent?
 

Ylside

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1year is quite a short time in respect to Indian standards though !
In that field russia is doing pretty impressive work.
1 vs 41 , yet 41s still struggling !!! that tables all............................................................
That reminds me that RuSSian joke.

Man at hospital awakes from year-long coma, greets his relatives and asks what is new.
"We are fighting NATO."
"And how is it going?"
"It's not easy. So far, we lost thousands of tanks, hundreds of planes, 50000 soldiers and Black Sea flagship."
"And NATO?"
"NATO haven't arrived yet"
 

Anirbann Datta

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That reminds me that RuSSian joke.

Man at hospital awakes from year-long coma, greets his relatives and asks what is new.
"We are fighting NATO."
"And how is it going?"
"It's not easy. So far, we lost thousands of tanks, hundreds of planes, 50000 soldiers and Black Sea flagship."
"And NATO?"
"NATO haven't arrived yet"
at the end of the day,,,,, have you yet counted the end effects?
Russia single handedly ended the era of previous world order....
to contain a single country, the west cumulatively back travelled their own growth(s).. ( should i post the screenshot of - gdp growth incl your own country for running fy?)
West should remember that they are the consumers not resource producers!! and its not 17th century any more that they can colonise kill and loot others for trillions worth resources...
so best of luck for the slow death of cumulative west....
 

GaudaNaresh

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That reminds me that RuSSian joke.

Man at hospital awakes from year-long coma, greets his relatives and asks what is new.
"We are fighting NATO."
"And how is it going?"
"It's not easy. So far, we lost thousands of tanks, hundreds of planes, 50000 soldiers and Black Sea flagship."
"And NATO?"
"NATO haven't arrived yet"
Correction: After getting their a$$es handed to them by afghan hillbillies, NATO is too pu$$y to fight a near peer adversary, so they have spent 12 years of their military industrial production capacity in 1 year, using Ukrainian Nazis as the cannon fodder against the nation that rid the world of Nazis the last time around.
 

jackprince

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Those civilians would have most likely formed militias. That's how it went in Vietnam too. Add to that the Soviets were also planning to go into Japan, what with their dispute over the Kurile. The nuclear bombs were the most effective solution to all of America's problems back then, despite how unethical the actions were, and horrifying the effects were(however as everyone knows, geopolitics and ethics never go hand in hand)
So you are actually saying Russia should also use nukes on Kiev so that needless loss of lives at the front may cease?

Or are you justifying the Russian strikes on civilian infrastructure at Ukraine?

Good to know that.

Obviously geopilitics and ethics never are one and the same. Had it been so, the American politicians would be claiming their moral high ground of protecting free world and democracies after killing millions of innocent civilians world over.
If the US did invade Japan, they'd be fighting schoolkids who were being trained by the military since 1939.
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So? Didn't Russian kids joined up during great war. Even my mom and her classmates was trained to handle firearms in her school during 1971 war by the army as her village was near East Pakistan border.

If resistance by civilian is a reason for using nukes, Russia should have done that in Ukraine already.
 

jackprince

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No. That is called more yankee propaganda. The level of indoctrination Japan had were no different than that of any allied nation in the 1940s and they were by far the most civilised of the main sides in ww2 - Nanjing included.
Wrong. Like it or not, allied forces were more civilised. It may be because they were liberating the areas that had alreay seen the horror of occupation by germany and the population welcomed them, but it alos had to do with discipline of the officer cadre. Like it or not, British army, in whose footsteps Indian army still marches, always had a very displined structure and ROE. It is what made them succeed through the centuries. Even German army was very disciplined and rarely took part in mass scale atrocities.

And, no Japan wasn't the most civilised one. It was as brutal as Germans. All the accounts of survivors of the Japanese occupation cannot be wrong or propaganda. So, lets not get carried over too much. Japanese were brutal and Nanjing is only one of the atrocities they carried out.
 

Ylside

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whats with the capitalised double S in Russia, when its Ukronazis sporting SS symbols, Euro-propagandist ?
Partially because its entertaining to watch triggered RuSSian snowflakes, but mainly because RuSSia already turned into a fashist state. And policies they boast about (Deukrainization, "reformatting" of the subjugated population - erasing of the original indentity and replacing it with a Russian one) was precisely what Hitler did in some countries he occupied in an effort to create more "Germans"
 

Sanglamorre

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@GaudaNaresh @ww2historian @sachincba The level of indoctrination the Japanese had was equal to jihadi radicalization levels, maybe even more. You know how both the Soviet and US stint in Afghanistan went against jihadis, now imagine a country full of them. They were literally the original jihadis lmao
This is true. There were groups of kids who were pressed into becoming nurses called Himawari were so indoctrinated that they have come on record saying they didn't surrender many times when US soldiers asked them to fearing rape, torture and cannibalism as told to them by the soldiers and instead many chose to let themselves be bombed or gassed.
 

Ylside

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RuSSian commander Khodakovsky has lost lots of his bravado since he declared offensive against Vuhledar 3 weeks ago. Now he admits that with current capabilities of the RuSSian army, in order to "liberate Donbas", they would have to completely demolish it, killing everyone who didnt run away.

 

Blademaster

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That reminds me that RuSSian joke.

Man at hospital awakes from year-long coma, greets his relatives and asks what is new.
"We are fighting NATO."
"And how is it going?"
"It's not easy. So far, we lost thousands of tanks, hundreds of planes, 50000 soldiers and Black Sea flagship."
"And NATO?"
"NATO haven't arrived yet"
Of course NATO haven't arrived. They were disguising as mercenaries. You should have asked about the mercenaries.
 

Blademaster

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Wrong. Like it or not, allied forces were more civilised. It may be because they were liberating the areas that had alreay seen the horror of occupation by germany and the population welcomed them, but it alos had to do with discipline of the officer cadre. Like it or not, British army, in whose footsteps Indian army still marches, always had a very displined structure and ROE. It is what made them succeed through the centuries. Even German army was very disciplined and rarely took part in mass scale atrocities.

And, no Japan wasn't the most civilised one. It was as brutal as Germans. All the accounts of survivors of the Japanese occupation cannot be wrong or propaganda. So, lets not get carried over too much. Japanese were brutal and Nanjing is only one of the atrocities they carried out.
Although the Americans were very brutal in their occupation of the Philippines.
 

Blademaster

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Partially because its entertaining to watch triggered RuSSian snowflakes, but mainly because RuSSia already turned into a fashist state. And policies they boast about (Deukrainization, "reformatting" of the subjugated population - erasing of the original indentity and replacing it with a Russian one) was precisely what Hitler did in some countries he occupied in an effort to create more "Germans"
Sounds like someone on massive amount of copium.
 

Blademaster

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RuSSian commander Khodakovsky has lost lots of his bravado since he declared offensive against Vuhledar 3 weeks ago. Now he admits that with current capabilities of the RuSSian army, in order to "liberate Donbas", they would have to completely demolish it, killing everyone who didnt run away.

Goes to show that the Russians were trying to be humane and took extra efforts to avoid civilian casualties in the first place. But now there's no point to it. Might as well steam roll over it.
 

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