Russia Ukraine War 2022

[temujin]

Euro maidan happened because of that free trade agreement with Europe right ? Which pro Russian President prevented from happening .. That does not justify invasion . India is signing a free trade agreement with Europe in few years .. what if some other country attack india for signing free trade agreement with a different country ?

What ll you do if some parts of india is occupied by a foreign force ? You ll want the fight to go on for eternity as long as occupied areas are not under your control no matter the consequence . Its very easy to advice to give up the areas of your country sitting in foreign lands .

You're late to this thread as your first point has already been debated to death here. Essentially what was being offered to Ukraine by the EU was an 'association agreement' requiring Ukraine to accept all EU external tariffs without a role in setting them and all EU single market rules without being part of the SM i.e. a form of taxation without representation similar to the one that triggered the US war of independence. In trade terms this would also have been deeply damaging to the Ukrainian economy and decimated whatever remained of Ukraine's post Soviet manufacturing by flooding the market with tariff free European goods. More importantly, 75% of Ukraine's trade at the time was with Russia under a mutual tariff free regime (plus what was essentially free movement allowing millions of Ukrainians to work and live in Russia)- this was under threat from the EU agreement since the latter would have opened up a backdoor to the Russian market for the EU if Ukr-Russian trade remained tariff free. Putin rightly objected to this and also threatened to cease the sale of heavily discounted gas to Ukraine as it could also in theory be resold by Ukraine to the EU at a profit- gas transit had been a sore point in Russia- Ukrainian relations since the 2000s due to the exponential rise in the price of gas, sale volumes to Europe and increasingly brazen instances of Ukrainian gas theft- this wasn't just Russian propaganda either as Gazprom actually won its case against Ukrainian Naftogaz over alleged theft in the International Court of Arbitration.

Once reality dawned on Yanukovich, he swiftly junked the EU treaty but forces including right wing paramilitaries and ultra nationalists from Western Ukraine and soccer hooligans had already been mobilised by the US state department by this stage to orchestrate Euromaidan- Yanukovich's refusal to sign the EU surrender document was portrayed as a great betrayal of the nation, which was followed by the staged murder of the ' 100 angels' etc and culminated in the coup.

@ww2historian, as for Akim's claim about Russia starting the war, I was listening to Denis Seleznyov, a DNR based analyst who is known to present a ver balanced, objective account of the campaign- in his latest video, he was analysing satellite images from two years ago which show Ukrainian bunkers and fortifications deep inside civilian areas across the South East of the country, which clearly suggests this was a war Ukraine had been preparing for years- Russia merely chose to move preemptively, perhaps judging this to be an opportune moment given the current global financial context and it's influence on the West's response.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Exactly!! Now go back and read the comments made by @Kumaoni where he was advocating harassing/abusing/beating up random white tourists in the streets of India without any provocation or a reason, just because Indians are facing racism in western countries - those same Indians who now consider us to be beneath them!!

beating up is one step too far, but when it comes to racism, a white invented concept, fighting fire with fire is the ony way you put out that fire.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Same way. Into ignore. Say hello to the cruiser Moskva.
Anyone who will pretend to be smart, discussing Nazism and racism in Ukraine, I will send to the genital area.
I don't discuss when Indian police officers in one of the states brutally beat people on the street during the COVID outbreak. You have your own country and your own rules. Therefore, I treat those citizens of India who do not know the signs of fascism at all as stupid sheep and do not want to read their nonsense.

you dont discuss occasional sporadic police brutality is because police brutality in India is orders of magnitude lower than in your nazi nation of ukraine and your nazi big daddy USA

 

[ww2historian]

If China attacks india and usa supply some equipment to india a USA citizen has every right to say why his tax dollar is going to india .. Its legitimate concern regarding policy of your nation .... But when he says you indians should surrender indian ll punch his face ..

You see its matter of perspective and putting yourself in other's shoe .

That's assuming you first don't get killed by the Chinese. You talk big like the neo-Nazis, but you would of surrendered just like the Nazi Azovs did. The only reason Akim is still alive or didn't surrender is because Russian haven't attacked Odessa yet. You can imply just like Ukraine that it is better to die on your feet then live on your knees, but they already proved that saying as empty bullshit. Akim is a fool.

 

[gajapati]

That's assuming you first don't get killed by the Chinese. You talk big like the neo-Nazis, but you would of surrendered just like the Nazi Azovs did.

Indian nation in case of a fight with china ll fight to death for every inch of territory .. Every nation has right to fight for its sovereignty . Every nation ll react that way .

 

[gajapati]

You're late to this thread as your first point has already been debated to death here. Essentially what was being offered to Ukraine by the EU was an 'association agreement' requiring Ukraine to accept all EU external tariffs without a role in setting them and all EU single market rules without being part of the SM i.e. a form of taxation without representation similar to the one that triggered the US war of independence. In trade terms this would also have been deeply damaging to the Ukrainian economy and decimated whatever remained of Ukraine's post Soviet manufacturing by flooding the market with tariff free European goods.

If the deal was damaging to Ukraine .. what role does Russia had in a internal matter of Ukraine .. Russia saying i ll invade your nation destroy your cities because trade deal ll harm your economy .. wtf ..

More importantly, 75% of Ukraine's trade at the time was with Russia under a mutual tariff free regime (plus what was essentially free movement allowing millions of Ukrainians to work and live in Russia)- this was under threat from the EU agreement since the latter would have opened up a backdoor to the Russian market for the EU if Ukr-Russian trade remained tariff free.

If that was the case Russia should have taken economic action to protect its own economy

 

[mokoman]

Indian nation in case of a fight with china ll fight to death for every inch of territory .. Every nation has right to fight for its sovereignty . Every nation ll react that way .

LOL , many people here and on social media are upset that Ukraine dared to fight Russia .

Ukraine should have been ruled by chacha nehru , he agreed to a Chinese ceasefire and permanently allowed Chinese to dictate border and give up territory .

atleast UA has courage to fight for what they think is theirs.

 

[Akim]

Yesterday I heard: In April, the transfer to us was discussed
MiG-21 Lancer. Like they refused. Our pilots are not able to operate this type of fighter.

Clue.
Zelensky signed a decree extending martial law for 3 months at once, although he had previously done this on a monthly basis. This is an indirect confirmation that there will be a counter-offensive phase that is less dynamic and entails more losses, but this decree shows that we are already ready for liberation.

 

[pipebomb]

Just the excuse needed by Putin to mobilize for all out war. Not that he will, because missile and air force strikes can and will destroy them when they cross the border.

He have to, Russia does not has the manpower to take Odessa without it. Sooner or later putin have to declare war irrespective of whether Ukraine get himras/patriot or not.

According to many in Washington there is thinking which advocates tranfer of all equipment from their own stock to Ukraine since those won't be used against russia in a direct conflict(due to fear of nuclear escalation).

US is in a win win situation atleast in short term, russia will be weakened for sure but wheather it will be subdued remains to be seen, and European stupidity known no bounds and will pay for it heavily in near future.

 

[ww2historian]

He have to, Russia does not has the manpower to take Odessa without it. Sooner or later putin have to declare war irrespective of whether Ukraine get himras/patriot or not.

According to many in Washington there is thinking which advocates tranfer of all equipment from their own stock to Ukraine since those won't be used against russia in a direct conflict(due to fear of nuclear escalation).

US is in a win win situation atleast in short term, russia will be weakened for sure but wheather it will be subdued remains to be seen, and European stupidity known no bounds and will pay for it heavily in near future.

Russia's total number of military personal including reserves is 3 million and they've only used 200k in Ukraine. By contrast the US total military including reservist is 1.2 million. Russia could end this very soon if they wanted to.

 

[Blood+]

beating up is one step too far, but when it comes to racism, a white invented concept, fighting fire with fire is the ony way you put out that fire.

Of course, but for that, you need first to reach the source of the fire and you sure as hell ain't gonna find that in the streets of India!! That kid was advocating violence against random white tourists, who, by the way, happens to be the least racist of the lot!! Now, pray tell, how does that constitute fighting fire with fire??

 

[Kumaoni]

I read earlier it was around 8k, not 4.5k.

I usually use Ukranian sources for their numbers and Russian sources for theirs

 

[ww2historian]

Indian nation in case of a fight with china ll fight to death for every inch of territory .. Every nation has right to fight for its sovereignty . Every nation ll react that way .

You believe that bullshit because you've learned to be a robot by the people in power. Rarely do the people in power have to sacrifice their own lives and the lives of their children. I do admit it was common a couple of hundred years ago that the people in power put themselves at risk near the front, but that's not happening at all today. They don't need to when they have suckers like yourself.

 

[Kumaoni]

I think Zelensky, Akim, and the west are the ones being insensitive. They chose to fight. Now that they're finally waking up to the consequences of their decision, instead of blaming themselves, they're blaming 100% of it on Putin. Stupidity and shortsightedness is no excuse. They need to surrender now, before it becomes so much worse.

All speculative

 

[Blood+]

I usually use Ukranian sources for their numbers and Russian sources for theirs

In this instance at least, I can't take the Ukrainian claim at its face value. Because Ukrainian officials had claimed that there were only some 3500 defenders in the whole city of Mariupol since the beginning of the hostilities yet, the number of Ukrainian POWs in Russian hands exceeds that claimed figure if we count the 1600 marines from the 36th Marine Brigade that had surrendered earlier!! Now do the math.

 

[Kumaoni]

In this instance at least, I can't take the Ukrainian claim at its face value. Because Ukrainian officials had claimed that there were only some 3500 defenders in the whole city of Mariupol since the beginning of the hostilities yet, the number of Ukrainian POWs in Russian hands exceeds that claimed figure if we count the 1600 marines from the 36th Marine Brigade that had surrendered earlier!! Now do the math.

No there are probably no more than 3,000 prisoners which Indicates 1,000 killed which is totally fine tbh

 

[Blood+]

No there are probably no more than 3,000 prisoners which Indicates 1,000 killed which is totally fine tbh

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Of course, but for that, you need first to reach the source of the fire and you sure as hell ain't gonna find that in the streets of India!! That kid was advocating violence against random white tourists, who, by the way, happens to be the least racist of the lot!! Now, pray tell, how does that constitute fighting fire with fire??

well i am not in the streets of india.

 

[Blood+]

well i am not in the streets of india.

So you actually have to be roaming the streets of India to figure out the fact that the source of racism against Indians in the WESTERN NATIONS is not in India??!! WHAT??!!

Oh and by the way, why do you think we should be doing anything, let alone harass some random tourists with no provocations for a bunch of vagodas who left their homes for the greener pastures and now act more white than the fucking whites themselves??!!

 

[GaudaNaresh]

So you actually have to be roaming the streets of India to figure out the source of racism against Indians in the WESTERN NATIONS is not in India??!! WHAT??!!

Oh and by the way, why do you think we should be doing anything, let alone harass some random tourists with no provocations for a bunch of vagodas who left their homes for the greener pastures and now act more white than the fucking whites themselves??!!

did you have a seizure ? i have no idea what you just said. I am not the one talking about harassing tourists in india. you are.