Project P15B Visakhapatnam class destroyer

[rohit b3]

It is what it is. It hasn't reached its full potential & lacks some key systems.


Only in anti-shipping, need not remind of Gorshkov.

Delhi and Shivalik are armed with 32 SRSAM, they need not ditch the ASW rocket launcher to pack SRSAM, there's enough space on the foredeck & mid-deck.

Trishul failed, waiting for an indigenous SRSAM seemed like a better proposition at the time, it's sad that it was shelved before the commissioning of Kolkata.

You're in for a shock, standard load for the Burke was 32 TLAM in 2018, aircraft are responsible for the anti-shipping role, and they can deliver >10× larger volume.


& ASROC, operating with an HWT on high seas isn't easy.

Flight 1 is 8230LT, flight IIA (9.1k) incorporated hangar, it's still shorter than P-15A/B.

Burke displaces more than P-15A/B because it is more kitted out, P-15A/B won't always remain at 7400 Tonne, they have a large hull with space to upgrade, and that thing is long & deep. It will displace much more than 7400 Tonnes when it is about to be retired.

1. Offcourse, all warships are refitted over time.
2. Anti shipping , ASW as well as aviation . Just not AAW
3.Delhi and Shivalik dont have 16 x BrahMos punch.
4. Barak 1 was always an option that time if that was needed.
5. Was that removed?
6. Flight 2A does, we were comparing with Flight 1

 

[Adm Kenobi]

pretty sure the INS Kolkata sailor had said around 11,000 kms at economical speeds. Though i cant believe my eyes on those boards, but doesn it feel weird a Frigate has more range than a Destroyer? Something isnt right..

COGAG vs CODOG
Zorya vs GE

 

[Adm Kenobi]

I am guessing @shiphone wanted to post the Whale Shark 6000 specifications.

sorry my bad...

052DE seems to be based on the improved 052D which is longer with more displacement.

View attachment 203101

Thanks for this, I'll update my numbers.

 

[Saumyasupraik]

CODAG vs COGOG
Zorya vs GE

Project 15 - COGAG -DS-71 + DT-59
Project 17 - CODOG - 16 PA6 + LM2500

 

[rohit b3]

COGAG vs CODOG
Zorya vs GE

So what benefit does COGAG have that the IN chose those over CODOG?

 

[Adm Kenobi]

2. Anti shipping , ASW as well as aviation. Just not AAW

ASW? No. There are ships out there with ASROC & >4 HWTT. Aviation? There are ship smaller than P-15A/B that can carry 2 Medium Weight Helicopters.

3.Delhi and Shivalik dont have 16 x BrahMos punch.

Never said they did.

4. Barak 1 was always an option that time if that was needed.

OK, let me get this straight, you think IN considered that there's no need for any SRSAM in their premier destroyer?

I have stated the reason in my previous post.

5. Was that removed?

That = ?

6. Flight 2A does, we were comparing with Flight 1

You were comparing P-15/B with ships similar in size, I say Burke IIA is slightly shorter in length & slightly wider in terms of beam. Similar.

So what benefit does COGAG have that the IN chose those over CODOG?

Burst of power.
Legacy, check kashin/Rajput & Delhi.

 

[jai jaganath]

052C DDG (six in service)

.48 cell of HHQ-9/9B VLS (this revolver style VLS is for the cold launched HHQ-9 serial missile only)
.8 YJ-62 AShM
.100mm naval gun
.two 730 CIWS
.one Z-9C/F or Ka28 helicopter
.2*3 324mm Torpedo tube

052D/D(imporved) DDG

.64 cell universal VLS for AAW, AShW and Land attack missils ..
.HQ-10 SRSAM , 24 missiles ready for fire.
.130mm naval gun
.one 730 or 1130 CIWS
.one Z-9C/F or Z-20F helicopter
.2*3 324mm Torpedo tube

In 052D improved how many cell have medium to long range aaw and how many AshM and how many lacm
Thanks

 

[jai jaganath]

Folks does anyone have comparison between range of p-15b and 052D improved
Bcoz in net they are showing export numbers
I want to know the ones Chinese using

 

[swapcv]

Smaller than both
MK41 can quad pack a missile like MR-SAM (ESSM is >250mm) with just a bit more space.
UVLM has to pack a BrahMos, and it can take multiple MR-SAM in it.

And what about the upcoming UVLS which for now seems to only have VL-SRSAM in mind? Could it fit the Barak 8?

 

[Adm Kenobi]

And what about the upcoming UVLS which for now seems to only have VL-SRSAM in mind? Could it fit the Barak 8?

Why would it have only VL-SRSAM in mind? The Navy is actively involved in HCM & PG-LRSAM.
I have nothing on UVLS, other than the project "exists".
VL-SRSAM has its own VLU.
Packing a single missile with <250mm in a UVLS (if it is similar in size to UVLM) will be a waste, even quad packing will leave out a lot of space unused.
Will have to wait and see.

Folks does anyone have comparison between range of p-15b and 052D improved
Bcoz in net they are showing export numbers
I want to know the ones Chinese using

Will be very close to the export numbers, you can't just decrease the range like that.

 

[jai jaganath]

Why would it have only VL-SRSAM in mind? The Navy is actively involved in HCM & PG-LRSAM.
I have nothing on UVLS, other than the project "exists".
VL-SRSAM has its own VLU.
Packing a single missile with <250mm in a UVLS (if it is similar in size to UVLM) will be a waste, even quad packing will leave out a lot of space unused.
Will have to wait and see.

Will be very close to the export numbers, you can't just decrease the range like that.

In export they bit exaggerate
Better if u have original numbers pls post

 

[Proxy1234]

For Kolkata i would have shown you my "INS Kolkata visitors pass" when it had docked in Mumbai sometime in 2016, but i dont have it anymore.

For Shivalik - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-over-Rs-50000-crore/articleshow/14783631.cms

There was also another article which said INS Shivalik had travelled to China covering more than 9000 kms without refuel. But that was many years back and i cant seem to find that article anymore, so if anyone can find it , feel free to post.

Are you talking about this:
"Sources said the Chinese officers were very interested in Shivalik and was surprised that it had sailed all the way from Port Blair without any escort vessel or any other supervisory officer on board other than Captain Das himself."

Indian Navy refuses Chinese navy chief’s request

The Indian Navy had to politely refuse an unusual request from the Chinese navy chief, Wu Shengli, when he came aboard stealth warship INS Shivalik and wanted to be shown the Combat Information Centre (CII) or the all-important tactical room of the frigate.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[binayak95]

No Destroyer is perfect. Yes, it has less SAMs, and i would love it if they add 16 x VLSRM to the configuration. However calling it "ill equipped" based on less SAMs isnt right. It packs more punch in terms of weight compared to other Destroyers in its class.
Even during designing, couldn the IN add 16 additional Barak 1 and say...ditched the RBU6000? Offcourse they could have, but chose not to.

And anyway, if you wanna compare with Areligh Burke Flight I, which is 8900 tons, Arleigh Burke has invested and filled the warship with SAMs. It has negligible Ashm land warfare with just 8 x Harpoons for a 8900 tons warships. It has Light 324mm Torpedo tubes, and NO HELI HANGER. Yes it has a Flight Deck for one Helicopter, but it cannot hold Helicopters for prolonged period on high seas. A 8900 ton warship without a Helicopter Hanger , meanwhile 7500 Kolkata/Vish has a Hanger for 2 Helicopters.

The Barak 1s were deliberately not added - because they were deemed excess to requirements. Especially because Barak 8s can do the job of a point defense system just as well as the Barak 1. What IN should have done is double down on the numbers of barak 8s.

 

[binayak95]

So what benefit does COGAG have that the IN chose those over CODOG?

Much faster reaction times, great acceleration, more power generation than diesel for less weight

 

[blackleaf]

Why do our ships carry heavy weight torpedoes instead of light weight torpedoes like other navies?

 

[rohit b3]

Are you talking about this:
"Sources said the Chinese officers were very interested in Shivalik and was surprised that it had sailed all the way from Port Blair without any escort vessel or any other supervisory officer on board other than Captain Das himself."

Indian Navy refuses Chinese navy chief’s request

The Indian Navy had to politely refuse an unusual request from the Chinese navy chief, Wu Shengli, when he came aboard stealth warship INS Shivalik and wanted to be shown the Combat Information Centre (CII) or the all-important tactical room of the frigate.

www.hindustantimes.com

Yeah but that article had the range numbers too. But never mind, its clear that its 5000 nm as per MDL brochure.

 

[rohit b3]

Why do our ships carry heavy weight torpedoes instead of light weight torpedoes like other navies?

Heavy torpedos have twice the range compared to Light Torpedos and a much more powerful warhead. For short range we use the RBU6000 ASW rocket launchers.

 

[blackleaf]

Heavy torpedos have twice the range compared to Light Torpedos and a much more powerful warhead. For short range we use the RBU6000 ASW rocket launchers.

Most other navies only carry light weight torpedoes as anti-submarine weapons.
Some of the newer western ships don't even carry them at all as they see ship launched torpedoes as outdated and no longer useful.

Do we carry heavy weight torpedoes to be able to engage submarines at longer ranges instead of using ASROC missiles?

 

[Marliii]

The Barak 1s were deliberately not added - because they were deemed excess to requirements. Especially because Barak 8s can do the job of a point defense system just as well as the Barak 1. What IN should have done is double down on the numbers of barak 8s.

Can we double the number of barak on Kolkata class and visakhapatnam destroyers ?

 

[binayak95]

Can we double the number of barak on Kolkata class and visakhapatnam destroyers ?

In theory, aye