Project P15B Visakhapatnam class destroyer

[johnj]

Nirbhay is half the weight of Brahmos, 2 meters shorter. An 8x cell can be added during MLU.

that requires a redesign & adding new vls need structural redesign also. A new weapon need additional combat systems and new c&c. MLU- if you consider tech development in IN, then the ship after MLU is different from old one.

 

[v952010]

source

 

[kamaal]

P15B no longer looks like a modern stealth destroyer, we need P18 to maintain parity with the PLAN. It's design is not clean and still many subsystems are outside the structure and not to forget that it is still not carrying enough weapons as per its weight category.

 

[binayak95]

P15B no longer looks like a modern stealth destroyer, we need P18 to maintain parity with the PLAN. It's design is not clean and still many subsystems are outside the structure and not to forget that it is still not carrying enough weapons as per its weight category.

UTTER RUBBISH


"Not carrying enough weapons system as per its weight"

 

[karn]

UTTER RUBBISH


"Not carrying enough weapons system as per its weight"

How do the chinese pack as much fire power in a 4000 ton frigate as we in a 7400 ton destroyer.

 

[swapcv]

How do the chinese pack as much fire power in a 4000 ton frigate as we in a 7400 ton destroyer.

Simple, our 16-cell Brahmos UVLM is about as heavy if not much more heavier than the Chinese VLS on the Type 054A's, On the flip side, the Barak-8 launch modules are very compact. This creates discrepancies in the structural loading across the entire hull section where these modules are located and thus limits the number of modules and options for placing modules in that given section. Not to mention because the hull is progressively narrowing on the Foc'sle, the stress also progressively increases hence care must be taken so that it does not exceed the maximum permissible value. South Koreans found it out the hard way when their new KVLS-II cells began showing structural issues on the 1st KDX-III batch II hull launched last year. Here's the link to the article

https://www.e-sciencecentral.org/articles/SC000029355

It is very easy to criticize simply by observation, but it is harder when you're doing it yourself and you have balance all the limitations you have from an engineering perspective.

 

[swapcv]

Simple, our 16-cell Brahmos UVLM is about as heavy if not much more heavier than the Chinese VLS on the Type 054A's, On the flip side, the Barak-8 launch modules are very compact. This creates discrepancies in the structural loading across the entire hull section where these modules are located and thus limits the number of modules and options for placing modules in that given section. Not to mention because the hull is progressively narrowing on the Foc'sle, the stress also progressively increases hence care must be taken so that it does not exceed the maximum permissible value. South Koreans found it out the hard way when their new KVLS-II cells began showing structural issues on the 1st KDX-III batch II hull launched last year. Here's the link to the article

https://www.e-sciencecentral.org/articles/SC000029355

It is very easy to criticize simply by observation, but it is harder when you're doing it yourself and you have balance all the limitations you have from an engineering perspective.

Small correction, the article was published during the prototyping stage of the KVLS-II in 2017, and not after the launch of the 1st KDX-III Batch II hull last year.

 

[binayak95]

How do the chinese pack as much fire power in a 4000 ton frigate as we in a 7400 ton destroyer.

Because the Chinese use shorter ranged AShMs, have little to no regard for sea keeping and stability nor endurance (every single chinese deployment has atleast 3 ships including a tanker)

the Kolkatas have additional dead weight ballast to ensure the CG doesnt shift upwards thanks to that monstrous MF STAR and its ancillary equipment.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

P15B no longer looks like a modern stealth destroyer

"looks" don't fight a war.

UTTER RUBBISH


"Not carrying enough weapons system as per its weight"

Why are you booing him? That particular statement is correct.
Kolkata doesn't have any SR-SAM or a long-range SAM.

On the flip side, the Barak-8 launch modules are very compact.

...no, they are very large for a missile whose diameter is <250mm

 

[binayak95]

"looks" don't fight a war.

Why are you booing him? That particular statement is correct.
Kolkata doesn't have any SR-SAM or a long-range SAM.


...no, they are very large for a missile whose diameter is <250mm

I am booing the general sweeping statement that IN ships are underarmed - without understanding that the IN's priorities are endurance and sea keeping over cramming missiles.

Your advanced missiles and sensors wont be of any use if you cannot use them in a storm or if your crew is heaving their lunch out over the rails.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

IN's priorities are endurance...

Do you know the cruise range of P-15A/B?

 

[binayak95]

Do you know the cruise range of P-15A/B?

About 19000 km on cruise alone.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

About 19000 km on cruise alone.

3300nm (6100km) at 18 knots.

 

[swapcv]

no, they are very large for a missile whose diameter is <250mm

How much larger when compared to say a Mk.41 VLS or even our UVLM module for Brahmos?

 

[Adm Kenobi]

How much larger when compared to say a Mk.41 VLS or even our UVLM module for Brahmos?

Smaller than both
MK41 can quad pack a missile like MR-SAM (ESSM is >250mm) with just a bit more space.
UVLM has to pack a BrahMos, and it can take multiple MR-SAM in it.

very large for a missile whose diameter is <250mm

 

[binayak95]

3300nm (6100km) at 18 knots.

3300nm (6100km) at 18 knots.

:sus: thats a very specific number you've quoted.

 

[rohit b3]

3300nm (6100km) at 18 knots.

Nope, its around 11,000 kms+ at 16-18 knots for both Kolkata and Vishakapatnam.
Shivalik is over 10,000 kms+ 16-18 knots.

 

[rohit b3]

Okay, I barely even comment here but this "doesn carry enough weapon" rubbish. Like have those guys even compared it with other "8000 tons" class Warships? No! They compare it with 10,000 tons class warships like Atago, Sejong the Great, Arleigh Burke , etc.

Among "8000 tons" class , other warships comparable in terms of weight are Horizon Class, Type52D and Type 45.

Horizon carries 48 Aster SAMs, 8 Exocet AshM , 324 mm Light torpedos and 1 Helicopter

Type 45 carries 48 Aster SAMs, 8 Harpoon AshM, No Torpedo tubes and 1 Helicopter

Type 52D carries 32 HQ9 SAMs, 24 HQ10 , 16 YJ18 AshM, 16 CY-5 ASW missiles , no Torpedo tubes and 1 Helicopter (Configuration can be changed but this an optimal configuration for this debate).

In comparison

Kolkata/Vish carries 32 Barak 8 SAMs, 16 x BrahMos AshM, 533MM HEAVY Torpedo tubes , RBU6000 and 2 Helicopters.

As clearly seen Type 45 and Horizon fall way back. For instance, the AshM load of Horizon is 6.2 tons while AshM load of Kolkata is 48 tons.....close to 8 times more. And better range, speed and capability comes along with that. Each Varunastra ASW torpedo weights 5 times that of MU90 torpedo on Horizon. And not just weight, Varunastra gives twice the range and a far larger warhead making it crucial in ASW warfare.
Kolkata's 2 Helicopter capability means an additional weight of over 10-15 tons due to an additional airframe, its weapons as well as spares. RBU6000 with 72 rockets are an additional 10 tons.

Now comping to Type 52D
16 x YJ18 is 24 tons. Kolkata is 48 tons BrahMos - 2x more
16 x CY5 is 10 tons. Kolkata even if it carries 10 Varunastra is 15 tons. 1.5x more.
32 HHQ9 is similar in weight compared to 32 Barak 8 ...Equal
24 HQ10 is just 0.4 tons of missiles....closest comparison is the 72 x RBU6000 rockets which is 8 tons of rockets. (not comparing the launchers in either cases here)
1 Helicopter vs 2 Helicopers...again an additional weight of 10 tons approx.

And even after all that, Type 52D's range at cruise speed is 8300 kms and Kolkata's is 11,000 kms as per open sources.

Prove me wrong!

 

[Adm Kenobi]

Nope, its around 11,000 kms+ at 16-18 knots for both Kolkata and Vishakapatnam.
Shivalik is over 10,000 kms+ 16-18 knots.

OK.
Share your source, and then I'll share mine.

 

[Blood+]

Okay, I barely even comment here but this "doesn carry enough weapon" rubbish. Like have those guys even compared it with other "8000 tons" class Warships? No! They compare it with 10,000 tons class warships like Atago, Sejong the Great, Arleigh Burke , etc.

Among "8000 tons" class , other warships comparable in terms of weight are Horizon Class, Type52D and Type 45.

Horizon carries 48 Aster SAMs, 8 Exocet AshM , 324 mm Light torpedos and 1 Helicopter

Type 45 carries 48 Aster SAMs, 8 Harpoon AshM, No Torpedo tubes and 1 Helicopter

Type 52D carries 32 HQ9 SAMs, 24 HQ10 , 16 YJ18 AshM, 16 CY-5 ASW missiles , no Torpedo tubes and 1 Helicopter (Configuration can be changed but this an optimal configuration for this debate).

In comparison

Kolkata/Vish carries 32 Barak 8 SAMs, 16 x BrahMos AshM, 533MM HEAVY Torpedo tubes , RBU6000 and 2 Helicopters.

As clearly seen Type 45 and Horizon fall way back. For instance, the AshM load of Horizon is 6.2 tons while AshM load of Kolkata is 48 tons.....close to 8 times more. And better range, speed and capability comes along with that. Each Varunastra ASW torpedo weights 5 times that of MU90 torpedo on Horizon. And not just weight, Varunastra gives twice the range and a far larger warhead making it crucial in ASW warfare.
Kolkata's 2 Helicopter capability means an additional weight of over 10-15 tons due to an additional airframe, its weapons as well as spares. RBU6000 with 72 rockets are an additional 10 tons.

Now comping to Type 52D
16 x YJ18 is 24 tons. Kolkata is 48 tons BrahMos - 2x more
16 x CY5 is 10 tons. Kolkata even if it carries 10 Varunastra is 15 tons. 1.5x more.
32 HHQ9 is similar in weight compared to 32 Barak 8 ...Equal
24 HQ10 is just 0.4 tons of missiles....closest comparison is the 72 x RBU6000 rockets which is 8 tons of rockets. (not comparing the launchers in either cases here)
1 Helicopter vs 2 Helicopers...again an additional weight of 10 tons approx.

And even after all that, Type 52D's range at cruise speed is 8300 kms and Kolkata's is 11,000 kms as per open sources.

Prove me wrong!

It's just that the number of SAMs at 32 seems too low. A 48 round complement would be more reasonable.