HAL's 'HLFT-42' Fighter Trainer Jet Project

[FalconSlayers]

This thread is for the new HLFT-42 Trainer Project

@ezsasa @hit&run @Indx TechStyle

 

[hit&run]

Thread made sticky.

Please add details, capabilities and ETD

 

[abingdonboy]

the whole point of this project is so HAL doesn’t have to keep putting up the LCA/SPORT for armed trainer competitions against the TA50 (and losing each time). Cheap and cheerful with adequate performance is the goal not outright specifications

just keep that in mind before coming in and saying it should have xyz

it’ll be interesting to watch this project unfold as it doesn’t seem to be coming from an explicit Indian requirement so theoretically HAL won’t have to play the typical AON/PDR/CDR game as usual and can get on with it themselves internally.

it goes without saying anything that can bring additional revenue streams to HAL outside of the whims of the fickle initial uniformed services is greet news for them and Indian aerospace as a whole

 

[brat4]

this is like saying the HAL has a pet project that would be better than the jay eff solah.. literally like "hey, I like that little toy - I can make a better one in my spare time"

 

[vikata]

Wrt specifications it will give a run for money to Tejas ,more hard point,almost similar load carrying capacity , similar fuel and maybe longer leg due to less draggy dimensions.....

Won't it be a challenge to Tejas mk1 itself,if for some reason Tejas doesn't prove to be manufacturing friendly.....

How Tejas score above it (I know it is a paper plane ) but still???

 

[Truthsoldier]

I would rather have HAL concentrate these scarce resources on HALE,MALE class drones instead of depending on Israeli JV screwdrivergiri

 

[abingdonboy]

Wrt specifications it will give a run for money to Tejas ,more hard point,almost similar load carrying capacity , similar fuel and maybe longer leg due to less draggy dimensions.....

Won't it be a challenge to Tejas mk1 itself,if for some reason Tejas doesn't prove to be manufacturing friendly.....

How Tejas score above it (I know it is a paper plane ) but still???

Higher RCS, likely less capable FCS etc etc. fighter jets are about a lot more than raw performance these days. LCA is a proven machine made for a fight

Anyway with the MK.2 around the corner and MK1A in production this thing doesn’t offer a threat to LCA at all

 

[abingdonboy]

I would rather have HAL concentrate these scarce resources on HALE,MALE class drones instead of depending on Israeli JV screwdrivergiri

Rome isn’t built in a day. Give them a chance to establish their prowess. I still question the logic in having HAL be the production agency for TAPAS, would have preferred a private giant get into this field but I guess they rope in HAL every time there’s a new product that the uniforms refuse to commit to upfront hence private players refuse to burden themselves with the risk

there’s plenty of drones in the works in india but outside of HAL not one combat aircraft maker in India.

 

[abingdonboy]

+ has CATS warrior gone MIA now? Haven’t seen any pictures of it at aero india and it was a huge presence for HAL in the last edition.

 

[Echo1Charlie]

With 12 missiles at its disposal, I think this could be a loyal wingman for stealthy AMCA. I believe they will replace the splitter plate air-intakes with a DSI in future design iterations it wouldn't be a big issue, they already have it on TEDBF and AMCA.

 

[Echo1Charlie]

there’s plenty of drones in the works in india but outside of HAL not one combat aircraft maker in India.

I think TATA advanced systems could emerge as a potential private player.

 

[Echo1Charlie]

Higher RCS, likely less capable FCS etc etc. fighter jets are about a lot more than raw performance these days.

Yes, but it is a LIFT, who wants a stealthy LIFT?

likely less capable FCS etc

that's a wild guess

 

[vikata]

Higher RCS, likely less capable FCS etc etc. fighter jets are about a lot more than raw performance these days. LCA is a proven machine made for a fight

Anyway with the MK.2 around the corner and MK1A in production this thing doesn’t offer a threat to LCA at all

If it succeeds it may open another dimension ,it will be a cheaper yet credible plane aka mig 21 of current times .....
We can also simply saturate Western front with cheap and capable planes with more capable deep inside to protect them from first strike like in 1965.....

But the question is every year we see concept from Hal like loyal wingman last year and then this one, but as pointed by you no follow up news, infact complete silence on cats warrior....


What I am more and more convinced is that any government will think twice before inducting foreign nade singe engine plane now (except f35). that door has bbeen shut forever ..sooner or later USA will offer f35....as they are also seeing writing on the wall

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[MonaLazy]

New Indian supersonic trainer jet to supplement PC-7 and Hawk fleets | Shephard

The Indian Air Force has abandoned plans to acquire a two-seat trainer variant of the Tejas Mk 1 Light Combat Aircraft, opting instead for the HAL HLFT-42 supersonic jet.

www.shephardmedia.com

New Indian supersonic trainer jet to supplement PC-7 and Hawk fleets
15th February 2023 - 14:30 GMT | by Rahul Bedi in Delhi
RSS

The HLFT-42 will be powered by either a US GE F404 or Indian Kaveri turbofan, and its configuration bears a strong resemblance to the 1960s-vintage HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber. (Image: HAL)
The Indian Air Force has abandoned plans to acquire a two-seat trainer variant of the Tejas Mk 1 Light Combat Aircraft, opting instead for the HAL HLFT-42 supersonic jet.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/training-simulation/royal-air-force-modernisation-and-training-in-plunge/

India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has unveiled a full-scale model of the tandem-seat single-engine Hindustan Lead-in Fighter Trainer-42 (HLFT-42) it is developing to instruct future Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots operating fourth- and fifth-generation fighters.
Displayed at Aero India 2023, the 16m long and 4.6m high HLFT-42 is likely to be powered by either General Electric F404 turbofans or the indigenous GTX-35VS Kaveri engine, under development by the Defence Research and Development Organisation since the 1990s, HAL sources said.
Conceived in 2017, the proposed Next-gen Supersonic Trainer-fighter would be fitted with locally developed active electronically scanned array radar, EW suites, IR search and track sensors and fly-by-wire systems.


With a maximum take-off weight of 16,500kg and an external load capacity of 4,500kg, the HLFT-42 resembles the HAL-designed HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber from the 1960s and like it features strakes attached to its air intakes. The HF-24 was phased out by the IAF in the late 1980s due to multiple accidents caused by its under-powered engine.

The HLFT-42 is also expected to feature at least eight hardpoints (four on each wing) capable of deploying locally developed Astra medium- and short-range air-to-air missiles.

HAL sources said the trainer was expected to incorporate technologies from the under-development Tejas Mk 2 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) variant and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, and would be the IAF’s lead trainer from 2030 onwards.

The HLFT-42 will eventually supplement the IAFs 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mk II basic trainer aircraft, acquired in 2012 for $1 billon but which have recently been facing major serviceability issues, and licence-built BAE Hawk 132 advanced jet trainers. All IAF pilots presently receive 80 and 120 hours of instruction respectively on both platforms.



Over the next 5-7 years the PC-7 is likely to be replaced by the HAL-designed HTT-40, of which the IAF ordered 70 units in October 2022 for $822.4 million.

The IAF had initially backed development of a Lead-in Fighter Trainer (LIFT) based on the airframe of the locally developed twin-seat Tejas Mk1 LCA trainer, but recently opted for the HLFT-42 instead.

The LIFT was designed to duplicate the flight characteristics of fighters such as the Sukhoi Su-30MKI and Dassault’s Rafale, but this role is now expected to be performed by the HLFT-42, HAL sources added.

--

HLFT-42 is 2030+, Kaveri is likely to come through around 2024/5- looks like a match made in heaven!

Exclusive | Indigenous Engine of Tejas on Its Way: ADE Director at DRDO Who Worked on LCA for 25 Years - News18

Indigenous content is very important for Atmanirbhar Bharat, Y Dilip told News18 at the Aero India 2023 in Bengaluru

www.news18.com

 

[jai jaganath]

New Indian supersonic trainer jet to supplement PC-7 and Hawk fleets | Shephard

The Indian Air Force has abandoned plans to acquire a two-seat trainer variant of the Tejas Mk 1 Light Combat Aircraft, opting instead for the HAL HLFT-42 supersonic jet.

www.shephardmedia.com

New Indian supersonic trainer jet to supplement PC-7 and Hawk fleets
15th February 2023 - 14:30 GMT | by Rahul Bedi in Delhi
RSS

The HLFT-42 will be powered by either a US GE F404 or Indian Kaveri turbofan, and its configuration bears a strong resemblance to the 1960s-vintage HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber. (Image: HAL)
The Indian Air Force has abandoned plans to acquire a two-seat trainer variant of the Tejas Mk 1 Light Combat Aircraft, opting instead for the HAL HLFT-42 supersonic jet.

View attachment 193974

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...r-force-modernisation-and-training-in-plunge/

India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has unveiled a full-scale model of the tandem-seat single-engine Hindustan Lead-in Fighter Trainer-42 (HLFT-42) it is developing to instruct future Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots operating fourth- and fifth-generation fighters.
Displayed at Aero India 2023, the 16m long and 4.6m high HLFT-42 is likely to be powered by either General Electric F404 turbofans or the indigenous GTX-35VS Kaveri engine, under development by the Defence Research and Development Organisation since the 1990s, HAL sources said.
Conceived in 2017, the proposed Next-gen Supersonic Trainer-fighter would be fitted with locally developed active electronically scanned array radar, EW suites, IR search and track sensors and fly-by-wire systems.


With a maximum take-off weight of 16,500kg and an external load capacity of 4,500kg, the HLFT-42 resembles the HAL-designed HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber from the 1960s and like it features strakes attached to its air intakes. The HF-24 was phased out by the IAF in the late 1980s due to multiple accidents caused by its under-powered engine.

The HLFT-42 is also expected to feature at least eight hardpoints (four on each wing) capable of deploying locally developed Astra medium- and short-range air-to-air missiles.

HAL sources said the trainer was expected to incorporate technologies from the under-development Tejas Mk 2 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) variant and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, and would be the IAF’s lead trainer from 2030 onwards.

The HLFT-42 will eventually supplement the IAFs 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mk II basic trainer aircraft, acquired in 2012 for $1 billon but which have recently been facing major serviceability issues, and licence-built BAE Hawk 132 advanced jet trainers. All IAF pilots presently receive 80 and 120 hours of instruction respectively on both platforms.



Over the next 5-7 years the PC-7 is likely to be replaced by the HAL-designed HTT-40, of which the IAF ordered 70 units in October 2022 for $822.4 million.

The IAF had initially backed development of a Lead-in Fighter Trainer (LIFT) based on the airframe of the locally developed twin-seat Tejas Mk1 LCA trainer, but recently opted for the HLFT-42 instead.

The LIFT was designed to duplicate the flight characteristics of fighters such as the Sukhoi Su-30MKI and Dassault’s Rafale, but this role is now expected to be performed by the HLFT-42, HAL sources added.

--

HLFT-42 is 2030+, Kaveri is likely to come through around 2024/5- looks like a match made in heaven!

Exclusive | Indigenous Engine of Tejas on Its Way: ADE Director at DRDO Who Worked on LCA for 25 Years - News18

Indigenous content is very important for Atmanirbhar Bharat, Y Dilip told News18 at the Aero India 2023 in Bengaluru

www.news18.com

Can we expect Kaveri with AB in hlft

 

[MonaLazy]

Can we expect Kaveri with AB in hlft

GE F404 or GTX-35VS Kaveri engine.. there is a **plan** to integrate AB Kaveri with Tejas also!

just posted to the HLFT thread

HAL's 'HLFT-42' Fighter Trainer Jet Project

This thread is for the new HLFT-42 Trainer Project @ezsasa @hit&run @Indx TechStyle

defenceforumindia.com

& Kaveri thread..

Kaveri Engine

A decade is a "normal" time to developp from scratch an engine.

defenceforumindia.com

This is what I gathered-
UCAV- dry Kaveri matured to a very high level of technology possibly ready by 2024/5 **if sanctions and funding come
Kaveri w/ AB- is good for a thrust of 73kN (target was 78kN) & GTRE asking for integration with Tejas + taxi trials, IAF could easily shoot this proposal down as a dead end as Kaveri is heavier than F404 and makes less power
HLFT-42- by 2030+ to be powered by AB Kaveri (subject to ifs and buts) or GE F404

.. aeroindia is also time for excessively optimistic news, followed by silence. So hoping against hope! Def enthusiasts have been led up this path so many times before (Kaveri is just around the corner- some more funding, some more time) & then their hopes are dashed.. that I will be skeptical, very skeptical of all these "plans" but also cautiously optimistic.

HLFT-42 is 2030+, Kaveri is likely to come through around 2024/5- looks like a match made in heaven!

I mis-read the timeline for dry Kaveri as that for GTX-35VS. If a 73kN Kaveri is ready then they should integrate it on a FTB and put it through its paces, then on a single engined Tejas and then on a trainer like HLFT-42 where the machine is expected to be more forgiving (and the engine many orders more reliable) on the rookie pilot. If they start development of HLFT with GE F404 (safe, proven, reliable, thrifty) then it is probably going to be difficult for Kaveri to make its way in.

 

[silverghost]

New Indian supersonic trainer jet to supplement PC-7 and Hawk fleets | Shephard

The Indian Air Force has abandoned plans to acquire a two-seat trainer variant of the Tejas Mk 1 Light Combat Aircraft, opting instead for the HAL HLFT-42 supersonic jet.

www.shephardmedia.com

New Indian supersonic trainer jet to supplement PC-7 and Hawk fleets
15th February 2023 - 14:30 GMT | by Rahul Bedi in Delhi
RSS

The HLFT-42 will be powered by either a US GE F404 or Indian Kaveri turbofan, and its configuration bears a strong resemblance to the 1960s-vintage HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber. (Image: HAL)
The Indian Air Force has abandoned plans to acquire a two-seat trainer variant of the Tejas Mk 1 Light Combat Aircraft, opting instead for the HAL HLFT-42 supersonic jet.

View attachment 193974

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...r-force-modernisation-and-training-in-plunge/

India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has unveiled a full-scale model of the tandem-seat single-engine Hindustan Lead-in Fighter Trainer-42 (HLFT-42) it is developing to instruct future Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots operating fourth- and fifth-generation fighters.
Displayed at Aero India 2023, the 16m long and 4.6m high HLFT-42 is likely to be powered by either General Electric F404 turbofans or the indigenous GTX-35VS Kaveri engine, under development by the Defence Research and Development Organisation since the 1990s, HAL sources said.
Conceived in 2017, the proposed Next-gen Supersonic Trainer-fighter would be fitted with locally developed active electronically scanned array radar, EW suites, IR search and track sensors and fly-by-wire systems.


With a maximum take-off weight of 16,500kg and an external load capacity of 4,500kg, the HLFT-42 resembles the HAL-designed HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber from the 1960s and like it features strakes attached to its air intakes. The HF-24 was phased out by the IAF in the late 1980s due to multiple accidents caused by its under-powered engine.

The HLFT-42 is also expected to feature at least eight hardpoints (four on each wing) capable of deploying locally developed Astra medium- and short-range air-to-air missiles.

HAL sources said the trainer was expected to incorporate technologies from the under-development Tejas Mk 2 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) variant and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, and would be the IAF’s lead trainer from 2030 onwards.

The HLFT-42 will eventually supplement the IAFs 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mk II basic trainer aircraft, acquired in 2012 for $1 billon but which have recently been facing major serviceability issues, and licence-built BAE Hawk 132 advanced jet trainers. All IAF pilots presently receive 80 and 120 hours of instruction respectively on both platforms.



Over the next 5-7 years the PC-7 is likely to be replaced by the HAL-designed HTT-40, of which the IAF ordered 70 units in October 2022 for $822.4 million.

The IAF had initially backed development of a Lead-in Fighter Trainer (LIFT) based on the airframe of the locally developed twin-seat Tejas Mk1 LCA trainer, but recently opted for the HLFT-42 instead.

The LIFT was designed to duplicate the flight characteristics of fighters such as the Sukhoi Su-30MKI and Dassault’s Rafale, but this role is now expected to be performed by the HLFT-42, HAL sources added.

--

HLFT-42 is 2030+, Kaveri is likely to come through around 2024/5- looks like a match made in heaven!

Exclusive | Indigenous Engine of Tejas on Its Way: ADE Director at DRDO Who Worked on LCA for 25 Years - News18

Indigenous content is very important for Atmanirbhar Bharat, Y Dilip told News18 at the Aero India 2023 in Bengaluru

www.news18.com

If they power it using F414 and have the same radar as Mk2 with A2A refueling this might be the fighter jet that the IAF needs.

 

[Super falcon]

My main question is if these trainers will be equipped with better sensors and can carry more than 102AA missiles where even Tejas MK 2 Only can carry 8 AA Missiles than why the hack Tejas is needed when these look on paper more capable

 

[FalconSlayers]

My main question is if these trainers will be equipped with better sensors and can carry more than 102AA missiles where even Tejas MK 2 Only can carry 8 AA Missiles than why the hack Tejas is needed when these look on paper more capable

Because HLFT-42 are Lead-IN Fighter Trainers, meant to provide advanced training to airforce pilots. And if the need arises can be used in combat. That doesn't mean HLFT-42 is being built as a frontline fighter aircraft.