Project P15B Visakhapatnam class destroyer

[rohit b3]

A

Most other navies only carry light weight torpedoes as anti-submarine weapons.
Some of the newer western ships don't even carry them at all as they see ship launched torpedoes as outdated and no longer useful.

Do we carry heavy weight torpedoes to be able to engage submarines at longer ranges instead of using ASROC missiles?

ASROC missiles have a range of 22 kms. Varunastra Torpedos have a range of 40 kms. So yeah..

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Most other navies only carry light weight torpedoes as anti-submarine weapons.
Some of the newer western ships don't even carry them at all as they see ship launched torpedoes as outdated and no longer useful.

Do we carry heavy weight torpedoes to be able to engage submarines at longer ranges instead of using ASROC missiles?

Yup we do, here is a Rajput class destroyer firing the Varunastra HWT torpedo.

 

[swapcv]

Why would it have only VL-SRSAM in mind? The Navy is actively involved in HCM & PG-LRSAM.
I have nothing on UVLS, other than the project "exists".
VL-SRSAM has its own VLU.
Packing a single missile with <250mm in a UVLS (if it is similar in size to UVLM) will be a waste, even quad packing will leave out a lot of space unused.
Will have to wait and see.

Will be very close to the export numbers, you can't just decrease the range like that.

PG-LRSAM? XRSAM I presume?

 

[swapcv]

Why do our ships carry heavy weight torpedoes instead of light weight torpedoes like other navies?

Because when those designs were commissioned we were still in the infancy of our Domestic LWT programs such as the TAL Shyena and ALWT. While I am unsure those two programs are really that dissimilar (my guess is that TAL Shyena is merely an air-launched variant of the ALWT), now that we have one, it is possible that we might dispense away with the use of HWT's and use LWT's for Shipboard ASW armament for future designs.

 

[shiphone]

Because when those designs were commissioned we were still in the infancy of our Domestic LWT programs such as the TAL Shyena and ALWT. While I am unsure those two programs are really that dissimilar (my guess is that TAL Shyena is merely an air-launched variant of the ALWT), now that we have one, it is possible that we might dispense away with the use of HWT's and use LWT's for Shipboard ASW armament for future designs.

TAL is an old design (some kind of A244-S copy), but the ALWT(judging from the layout and Specification) seems to be a very modern one.

--------------------------

 

[Fatalis]

MDL delivered the first ship of P-15B in 2021 followed by the second in 2022. The third ship, christened ‘Imphal’ is currently undergoing sea trials and MDL is set to deliver the third ship of P-15B in September-October of 2023, this is 4-5 months before the contracted date. The fourth and last ship of the class, christened ‘Surat’ is scheduled to be delivered in the middle of next year (2024).

 

[Nebula]

I saw Kolkatta class Destroyer arriving at Sydney Port for the Malabar 2023 Exercise. It was spewing lot of smoke, not like Black smoke from Admiral Kuxnetsov, but significanlty higher and made a cloud in the port. Other ships which were also moving on self power had no smoke at all.

Some observers were commenting on the exessive smoke, can any one mention why is this?
Is this normal?
Will it be same for the Project 17B as they use similar system ?

 

[rohit b3]

I saw Kolkatta class Destroyer arriving at Sydney Port for the Malabar 2023 Exercise. It was spewing lot of smoke, not like Black smoke from Admiral Kuxnetsov, but significanlty higher and made a cloud in the port. Other ships which were also moving on self power had no smoke at all.

Some observers were commenting on the exessive smoke, can any one mention why is this?
Is this normal?
Will it be same for the Project 17B as they use similar system ?

Yeah tbh been seeing a lot of smoke on INS Kolkata lately.

Indian Navy's INS Sahyadri and destroyer INS Kolkata deployed in Jakarta, Indonesia. - YouTube

Someone commented "
"That’s steam from sea water that being used to suppress infrared signature"

Idk how true is that.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

I saw Kolkatta class Destroyer arriving at Sydney Port for the Malabar 2023 Exercise. It was spewing lot of smoke, not like Black smoke from Admiral Kuxnetsov, but significanlty higher and made a cloud in the port. Other ships which were also moving on self power had no smoke at all.

Some observers were commenting on the exessive smoke, can any one mention why is this?
Is this normal?

P-15 family (including Alpha & Bravo) has a COGAG propulsion system. It doesn't run on diesel, its Soviet (now Ukrainian) engines are burning gas. Efficiency of gas when using low power is very poor (wrt diesel).
It's normal for it to act like this.

Will it be same for the Project 17B as they use similar system ?

I believe you meant to write Project 15B? It uses the same propulsion system, it will be the same.
If you meant P-17B, then the answer will change, the P-17 family runs cleaner & features a CODOG propulsion system. P-15A & P-17B do not use the same system in this regard.

 

[swapcv]

I saw Kolkatta class Destroyer arriving at Sydney Port for the Malabar 2023 Exercise. It was spewing lot of smoke, not like Black smoke from Admiral Kuxnetsov, but significanlty higher and made a cloud in the port. Other ships which were also moving on self power had no smoke at all.

Some observers were commenting on the exessive smoke, can any one mention why is this?
Is this normal?
Will it be same for the Project 17B as they use similar system ?

P-17 uses Diesels at low speeds and combines it with two LM2500+ GT's for higher speeds, it's going to be burning clean hence regardless. Same goes for the P-17A and B classes as they will be CODOG and CODAG respectively. As for P-15 class in general. Since it its propulsion is COGAG, at low speeds (lower N2 and RPM's on props) it is going to be belching some smoke as at lower speeds, not all of the fuel is burnt in the combustion chamber of a GT. Check any COGAG warship at higher speeds, and the exhaust products will be markedly cleaner. Also it is generally known that Ukrainian and Russian GT's are a generation or two behind contemporary Western equivalents, and before anyone raises the question, we already have HAL manufacturing LM2500 sets and them inking an MoU with RR for MT30 GT's.

 

[binayak95]

I saw Kolkatta class Destroyer arriving at Sydney Port for the Malabar 2023 Exercise. It was spewing lot of smoke, not like Black smoke from Admiral Kuxnetsov, but significanlty higher and made a cloud in the port. Other ships which were also moving on self power had no smoke at all.

Some observers were commenting on the exessive smoke, can any one mention why is this?
Is this normal?
Will it be same for the Project 17B as they use similar system ?

the P15/A/B class use Ukrainian Zorya gas turbines.
They are known to be smoky.

As far the new frigates go, no - those are all American GE engines. very very efficient engines

 

[Nebula]

P-15 family (including Alpha & Bravo) has a COGAG propulsion system. It doesn't run on diesel, its Soviet (now Ukrainian) engines are burning gas. Efficiency of gas when using low power is very poor (wrt diesel).
It's normal for it to act like this.

I believe you meant to write Project 15B? It uses the same propulsion system, it will be the same.
If you meant P-17B, then the answer will change, the P-17 family runs cleaner & features a CODOG propulsion system. P-15A & P-17B do not use the same system in this regard.

Thanks, Yeah I meant P15B. Its good that we dont use that for P17. Its was an embarrassement to watch that as we were waiting for one of the most advanced Destroyers in the world. Im sure it doesnt effect the performance but the word "Stealth Destroyer" means a lot, the smoke wasnt helping the Stealth part.

 

[SKC]

 

[Blood+]

Hmmm, so there is still the faintest of hope left that we might yet be able to match (or at least come close to matching) the seed of Chinese shipyards by the next decade.

 

[swapcv]

Hmmm, so there is still the faintest of hope left that we might yet be able to match (or at least come close to matching) the seed of Chinese shipyards by the next decade.

We're nowhere near them in terms of productivity. Heck, we're nowhere near EU or even SK/JP levels of productivity. Not being negative here, I do acknowledge that delivering a DDG 4 months ahead of schedule is a significant achievement but we have ways to go before catching up to our peers in terms of productivity. Also, it is improper to blame it all on the yards when the Govt. itself isn't ready to commit to the required order volumes to justify any production rate increase.

 

[Blood+]

We're nowhere near them in terms of productivity. Heck, we're nowhere near EU or even SK/JP levels of productivity. Not being negative here, I do acknowledge that delivering a DDG 4 months ahead of schedule is a significant achievement but we have ways to go before catching up to our peers in terms of productivity.

I get all that, but I guess you missed the 'faintest hope' part. It's just a hope—a wild hope at that—but at least it's there; earlier, there wasn't even that. Besides, I meant by the end of the next decade, that's still a good 15 years away, so definitely not in the near future.

Also, it is improper to blame it all on the yards when the Govt. itself isn't ready to commit to the required order volumes to justify any production rate increase.

No arguments there. Hopefully, the practice will change for the better with the upcoming NGD and other future projects.

 

[SKC]

Hmmm, so there is still the faintest of hope left that we might yet be able to match (or at least come close to matching) the seed of Chinese shipyards by the next decade.

~10 years to deliver 4 Project-15B vessels.
~11 years to deliver 7 Project-17A vessels.

Efficiency and productivity is increasing with time.

P15B faced delays due to Covid-19 also.

 

[Blood+]

~10 years to deliver 4 Project-15B vessels.
~11 years to deliver 7 Project-17A vessels.

Efficiency and productivity is increasing with time.

P15B faced delays due to Covid-19 also.

Exactly. Things are definitely moving in the right direction, albeit slower than needed but at least they are moving.

 

[SKC]

Exactly. Things are definitely moving in the right direction, albeit slower than needed but at least they are moving.

In order to achieve the speed of China, Korea and Japan, our shipyards need a continuous flow of big orders.

 

[Blood+]

In order to achieve the speed of China, Korea and Japan, our shipyards need a continuous flow of big orders.

Absolutely. This practice of placing orders piecemeal needs to be discarded ASAP.