Project-17A Nilgiri-class Frigate Thread

[FactsPlease]

AESA radars are a recent thing by India. And no, India isn't world leader in radars. It's very fine though. Since, Italian, British and Israeli radars are better in performance/can be mated with their systems what our radars can't do, imports will continue.

I think import of ground based radars had stopped now it's turn of naval radars.

In the posts of Navy Development, I had already voiced my support toward @omaebakabaka - the key point here is NOT that India did not make progress (quite achievement deserves respect, even considering those miserable shipyard condition. We should be grateful for those workers.). The point here is about Navy been awarded as "more supporting" indigenous than other two forces.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

In the posts of Navy Development, I had already voiced my support toward @omaebakabaka - the key point here is NOT that India did not make progress (quite achievement deserves respect, even considering those miserable shipyard condition. We should be grateful for those workers.). The point here is about Navy been awarded as "more supporting" indigenous than other two forces.

Navy has more PR in this regard than other two forces. Making hulls of naval ships is a far more easier job for Indian manufacturers than making airframes. Meanwhile in army, their requirements and threats are huge and frequent that domestic production and qualitg can't fulfil that often.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Navy has more PR in this regard than other two forces. Making hulls of naval ships is a far more easier job for Indian manufacturers than making airframes. Meanwhile in army, their requirements and threats are huge and frequent that domestic production and qualitg can't fulfil that often.

We all can agree that domestic efforts have progressed very well and we are seeing expertise in integration at the least and logical next step with continued government focus would be innovation and development of full platforms. It's just unfortunate that our system is not very easy to trust at any level due to corruption of many different forms.

 

[Lonewolf]

We all can agree that domestic efforts have progressed very well and we are seeing expertise in integration at the least and logical next step with continued government focus would be innovation and development of full platforms. It's just unfortunate that our system is not very easy to trust at any level due to corruption of many different forms.

Well one more thing is no platform is standalone and if we can't do it like turks and french or chinks , they all have their respective blocks and the supplier trust them for what they are offering and allows Mating with indigenous system .


While we are getting vlsrsam and brahmos or any future indigenous cruise missiles , the problem lies with barak 8 , too costly a system but provide a really good assurance performance wise , that's why navy counts too much on it , our vlsrsam can act like camm er like on type 45 upgrade , brahmos for ashm , nirbhay or any other for lrlacm , but we need a replacement for BARAK 8 anyhow ,and not a normal system but one with proven capability , need rigorous testing ,if someone is shocked with long testing , blthen be prepared for more tests for that system , if xrsam is to be put on ships it would have to prove itself multiple times .


Our best bet is that israel agrees with integration of barak 8 with indigenous radar and support system which can accommodate any future missile of indigenous origin , will allow retrofitting in older ships too

 

[Indx TechStyle]

It's just unfortunate that our system is not very easy to trust at any level due to corruption of many different forms.

It's not unfortunate, it's our reality, reality of any country at this income level. I'm quite sure system is far better today since people are more content than they were decades ago. As India enriches further, corruption will decline since motivation of people will go up.

 

[FalconSlayers]

I am very afraid of the pathetic future of Indian Navy.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

I am very afraid of the pathetic future of Indian Navy.

Csn you please explain pathetic in this context.
From what I see, In the next 4-5 years, Indian Navy will have inducted:
1 aircraft carrier
4 destroyers
11 frigates
3 SSK
2 SSBN
16 ASW shallow water craft
Atleast 6 more P8I Neptune
6 NG missile boats

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

I am very afraid of the pathetic future of Indian Navy.

It's the only place where we are not 'pathetic ' and no , I am not saying we are pathetic when it comes to airforce or fauj

 

[FalconSlayers]

Csn you please explain pathetic in this context.
From what I see, In the next 4-5 years, Indian Navy will have inducted:
1 aircraft carrier
4 destroyers
11 frigates
3 SSK
2 SSBN
16 ASW shallow water craft
Atleast 6 more P8I Neptune
6 NG missile boats

And how many will be retired? Also you will not have third IAC for atleast 10 years, in 2030 deal may be signed and by 2040-2045 INS Vishal can enter service. Only 2 LHDs to be built over originally planned 4, your ships are getting retired as well, and a lot of our ships are old as well. China is building it’s navy very rapidly. When will we get our first SSN under Project-75 Alpha? 2030? When will we get first P-18 Destroyer? 2030? We should increase the speeds and investments in Navy, but our economy ultimately is Fucked.

 

[flanker99]

And how many will be retired? Also you will not have third IAC for atleast 10 years, in 2030 deal may be signed and by 2040-2045 INS Vishal can enter service. Only 2 LHDs to be built over originally planned 4, your ships are getting retired as well, and a lot of our ships are old as well. China is building it’s navy very rapidly. When will we get our first SSN under Project-75 Alpha? 2030? When will we get first P-18 Destroyer? 2030? We should increase the speeds and investments in Navy, but our economy ultimately is Fucked.

all the rajputs will be retired along with 1 godavari but overall no of major surface combatents will increase but lack of subs and minehunters will be the biggest hurdles facing IN....we can take our time with 3rd carrier but those two cant wait

 

[Lonewolf]

And how many will be retired? Also you will not have third IAC for atleast 10 years, in 2030 deal may be signed and by 2040-2045 INS Vishal can enter service. Only 2 LHDs to be built over originally planned 4, your ships are getting retired as well, and a lot of our ships are old as well. China is building it’s navy very rapidly. When will we get our first SSN under Project-75 Alpha? 2030? When will we get first P-18 Destroyer? 2030? We should increase the speeds and investments in Navy, but our economy ultimately is Fucked.

First of all , how china is building fast should be accessed before comment , second problem should be addressed point wise , third we should look at our needs and quality as well which we will be requiring .

Also , thirrd ac won't take this long , this was a failure in policy planning about accessing situation properly on ground level , vizag class was delayed by Ukraine and russian supplies , third , we can increase capability of our ships by some changes as older inclined launcher can be replaced by vls uf possible , new indigenous missile can be fitted out .

On submarine front , we were completely bli d of our situation , problem is not money alone ,but lack of vision , we should have increased commonality among ship classes , one is french othrr is german and third is russian , the p 75 i should be french or russian to make commonality , as the aip and many components are of foreign origin bigger order will lead to dependencies in future , but as we have seen many times ,some indigenous submarine ssk are in deveolpment so it would be better if we place order for that class in 2026 or so and start delivery by 2030 , order can be un tranches but should be atleast 18 or 12 , not less

 

[abingdonboy]

I am very afraid of the pathetic future of Indian Navy.

I have to agree. The IN seemed like a bright spot but they are actually (quickly) falling behind and have been increasingly disappointing

No minesweepers
No SSN (first boat maybe 10 years from now? Who will escort Indian SSBNs until then?)
SSKs almost irrelevant outside of the Arabian Sea
2 carriers but only enough fighters for 1 and those fighters are highly questionable in capabilities
Cutting their LRMPA orders
No ultra long range UAVs
No new NUH
NMRH fleet in freefall
Ordering 4+3 DDG at a time

the current delivery gap is thanks to UPA basically giving up on the Indian services in the last 6 years of their term but the 2020-30 lost decade is 100% the NDA’s fault when the PLAN is sniffing in India’s backyard the clowns in New Delhi have completely taken their eyes off the ball. The Chinese wanted india to keep its attention on land wars, they wanted the MoD to remain IA dominated/focused hence Galwan, LAC provocations and their funding of the Pakis.

India’s strategic community is shockingly inept, they have gotten far too soft thanks to dealing with Pakis for the last 70+ years but the Chinese aren’t inbred egotistic clowns. They are cold and calculating and will make India look like a bunch of amateurs in due course.


By the time india is easily the 3rd largest economy in the world (2030) its navy will still lag in 4th/5th place and a LONG way behind the top 2.

 

[Bleh]

Only 2 LHDs to be built over originally planned 4, your ships are getting retired as well,

Those could actually be used by low-end jump jets (just capable enough to do airstrikes), but we got no harrier replacement.
Chinks tried & failed with the J-18, but NLCA would make a gOod STOVL jet.

Edit: My bad, J-31 is just a stop-gap/export model. They're targeting J-26 prototype based on the J-18 experience, by 2025.

(I secretly love the design)

 

[SavageKing456]

And how many will be retired? Also you will not have third IAC for atleast 10 years, in 2030 deal may be signed and by 2040-2045 INS Vishal can enter service. Only 2 LHDs to be built over originally planned 4, your ships are getting retired as well, and a lot of our ships are old as well. China is building it’s navy very rapidly. When will we get our first SSN under Project-75 Alpha? 2030? When will we get first P-18 Destroyer? 2030? We should increase the speeds and investments in Navy, but our economy ultimately is Fucked.

Aircraft carriers can come afterwards our first goal is to deter PLAN which submarines can do with a mix of HGV,aircraft carriers are sitting ducks,believe or not.
However that does not mean they're obsolete..
We can have ACs later

 

[Bleh]

Aircraft carriers can come afterwards our first goal is to deter PLAN which submarines can do with a mix of HGV,aircraft carriers are sitting ducks,believe or not.
However that does not mean they're obsolete..
We can have ACs later

Nah.. We already have the sea-bed lined with surveillance sensors. Subs might find themselves obsolete soon.

 

[SavageKing456]

Nah.. We already have the sea-bed lined with surveillance sensors. Subs might find themselves obsolete soon.

What you gonna do with sea-bed lines,can they perform attack roles?
Subs,obsolete?
What ya saying bro

 

[Lonewolf]

Nah.. We already have the sea-bed lined with surveillance sensors. Subs might find themselves obsolete soon.

So does any other naval craft as they can be seen through radars , submarine are not going anywhere for next 2 decades , we may find some new technologies now but obsolescence is a but of stretch .


Also naval mess is much bigger than we assume , it requires a huge amount of components and you can't make them all , and delay in few components can result in delay , as seen earlier , what has to seen is order size of ngf and ngd , ngmv ,ngc and indigenous ssk in future

 

[Bleh]

What you gonna do with sea-bed lines,can they perform attack roles?

Depends. They might. Dormant torpedo silos aren't new.

So does any other naval craft as they can be seen through radars , submarine are not going anywhere for next 2 decades , we may find some new technologies now but obsolescence is a but of stretch .

Well you see, unlike other naval crafts, submarines are pretty hapless once they have been detected... they have no SAMs, no CIWS.

1. What happens on detection of a sub?.. The nearest ship will send a fat, lumbering helicopter (which could be taken out by pirates on a dingy with the MANPAD) & it then proceeds to to launch homing torpedo at a submarine. Or a modified commercial airliner, that's stand no chance before surface fleet, to drop depth charges....... .Most subs simply surface & surrender or scuttle the vessel. There's nothing they can do. Detection is game over
2. Unlike surface fleet, they are almost 1-hit-kill too.
3. Plus countermeasures rarely work underwater. Torpedoes are notorious for being inescapable.

 

[flanker99]

Depends. They might. Dormant torpedo silos aren't new.



Well you see, unlike other naval crafts, submarines are pretty hapless once they have been detected... they have no SAMs, no CIWS.

1. What happens on detection of a sub?.. The nearest ship will send a fat, lumbering helicopter (which could be taken out by pirates on a dingy with the MANPAD) & it then proceeds to to launch homing torpedo at a submarine. Or a modified commercial airliner, that's stand no chance before surface fleet, to drop depth charges....... .Most subs simply surface & surrender or scuttle the vessel. There's nothing they can do. Detection is game over
2. Unlike surface fleet, they are almost 1-hit-kill too.
3. Plus countermeasures rarely work underwater. Torpedoes are notorious for being inescapable.

Bro good luck finding them first...subs are far from being close to obsolescence ...sea bed arrays wont be enough ocean is too vast

 

[Lonewolf]

Bro good luck finding them first...subs are far from being close to obsolescence ...sea bed arrays wont be enough ocean is too vast

For us it can work if put up near Andaman and nicobar and some backups at lakshadweep for Arabian sea if pork trues something