Project-17A Nilgiri-class Frigate Thread

[Gandaberunda]

No matter how much technology or ocean servillance evolve, submarines will never become obsolete unless they're not built up to cater modern era. Subs are the best hunters and nightmares in enemy waters.
If we didn't down PNS Ghazi, 71 war history would be different. Just imagine if pakis had more ghazis and sent out to hunt our ships.

 

[Bleh]

sea bed arrays wont be enough ocean is too vast

No matter how much technology or ocean servillance evolve,

Incorrect... That's the past. Modern seabed arrays have crazy efficiency, as do not have to scan out any noise, as they are just looking upwards into the water & sky from below (surface based ones have the subs hiding against seabed at background). No matter how silent you are, the metal inside the sub & its structure will be like a halogen in the night sky to the reciever system.

Surface vessels can scan upto only 10km with sonars, but underwater acoustic systems can do 10 times that.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Incorrect... That's the past. Modern seabed arrays have crazy efficiency, as do not have to scan out any noise, as they are just looking upwards into the water & sky from below. Any target will be much more prominent.

Surface vessels can scan upto only 10km with sonars, but underwater acoustic systems can do 10 times that.

Knowing the enemy subs and stopping them is two different things... When enemy subs fully armed lurking in your backyard waters even if you detect them tailing and taking them out is challenging as they move around anticipating to take out enemy assets.

 

[flanker99]

Incorrect... That's the past. Modern seabed arrays have crazy efficiency, as do not have to scan out any noise, as they are just looking upwards into the water & sky from below (surface based ones have the subs hiding against seabed at background). No matter how silent you are, the metal inside the sub & its structure will be like a halogen in the night sky to the reciever system.

Surface vessels can scan upto only 10km with sonars, but underwater acoustic systems can do 10 times that.

Even if ur right thats (a big if).....can u fill the entire ocean bed with listening arrays?....u might place them in strategic locations along choke points and u might detect them for a brief time and know there general locations but what after that?...

 

[Bleh]

Even if ur right thats (a big if).....can u fill the entire ocean bed with listening arrays?....u might place them in strategic locations along choke points and u might detect them for a brief time and know there general locations but what after that?...

Dude we have underwater pipelines in optical fibre stretching through the oceans! It's not that costly in comparison. With 100km detection range from each modules you won't need that many.

even if you detect them tailing and taking them out is challenging as they move around anticipating to take out enemy assets.

Lol no!.. Tailing & tracking is to be a thing of the past, soon.
We have supersonic homing torpedos now, with 650km range, I suspect developed specifically for this tactics (we are not usually pioneers in any weapon system, but SMART was an odd exception). Anything detected within range can be taken out in minutes.


Anyways, here's a infographics to help any laymans understand the concept.

 

[flanker99]

Lol no!
We have supersonic homing torpedos now, with 650km range... Anything detected within range can be taken out in minutes.


Anyways, here's a infographics to help any laymans understand the concept. View attachment 100230View attachment 100231

SMART's delivery system is quite advanced and unique but the torpedo is still a light whose range is very limited subs can outrun em so kill isnt always guaranteed so multiple torpedoes maybe needed ...thats why IN prefers heavy torps for our ships

 

[Gandaberunda]

Lol no!
We have supersonic homing torpedos now, with 650km range... Anything detected within range can be taken out in minutes.


Anyways, here's a infographics to help any laymans understand the concept. View attachment 100230View attachment 100231

This is just detecting part and stealth subs can easily escape from torpedoes by applying multiple decoys and once they do then multiple missile silos will be launched and subs dive to safe location. On paper these things look easy, practically you can't stop subs by just detecting and firing torpedoes at subs and if it was so easy to kill a sub no one would have bothered to build modern subs investing billions on them

 

[Bleh]

This is just detecting part and stealth subs can easily escape from torpedoes by applying multiple decoys...

SMART's delivery system is quite advanced and unique but the torpedo is still a light whose range is very limited subs can outrun em so kill isnt always guaranteed so multiple torpedoes maybe needed ...thats why IN prefers heavy torps for our ships

A sub will escape a supersonic torpedo by outpacing it out of its 650km range?.. ok, sure (you need some time to process I think).

I edited the above post a bit BTW. have another look

if it was so easy to kill a sub no one would have bothered to build modern subs investing billions on them

Dreadnought flashbacks

 

[Lonewolf]

This is just detecting part and stealth subs can easily escape from torpedoes by applying multiple decoys and once they do then multiple missile silos will be launched and subs dive to safe location. On paper these things look easy, practically you can't stop subs by just detecting and firing torpedoes at subs and if it was so easy to kill a sub no one would have bothered to build modern subs investing billions on them

What about underwater torpedo silo , if the sub get near ,fire 10 's of torpedo , atleast one will hit them

 

[flanker99]

Dude we have underwater pipelines in optical fibre stretching through the oceans! It's not that costly in comparison. With 100km detection range from each modules you won't need that many

bro ur oversimplyfying things if things were these easy then nobody would be investing much in subs ....i am not a hydrodynamic experts but ive seen conversations between ret USN sub,ship veterans noone says subs are on there way out .....i will recommend to those who are interested to join a FB group called NAVY GENERAL BOARD place is filled with retired USN veterans(and few active duties)and one can learn much from it

 

[Bleh]

What about underwater torpedo silo , if the sub get near ,fire 10 's of torpedo , atleast one will hit them

Now that's not achieved yet, on public atleast. You need confirmation crews to not hit other shipping. Can't be autonomous.

But I find it odd how people have orgasm over Brahmos, but saying that subs will somehow escape torpedoes. (seriously have anyone of you seen a Brahmos video?.. they have to cover the whole target ship with metal nets)

 

[flanker99]

A sub will outrun a supersonic torpedo with 650km range?.. ok, sure (you need some time to process I think).

I edited the above post a bit BTW. have another look



Dreadnought flashbacks

Read again and think for a moment...smart is just the missile the one going for the kill will be a lwt i was talking about the lwt not the missile

 

[Gandaberunda]

What about underwater torpedo silo , if the sub get near ,fire 10 's of torpedo , atleast one will hit them

It's what it takes... Downing a sub is herculean task unless the sub is totally caught off guard sleeping like pakis Ghazi.
You reckon enemy will send just one sub? Also stealth sub will have all counter measures deployed and it can fire counter silos in return to cause damage. If subs target is ship then kill probability of silos fired by sub will be higher than ship launching silos to kill sub.

 

[Bleh]

Read again and think for a moment...smart is just the missile the one going for the kill will be a lwt i was talking about the lwt not the missile

Let's take a scenario, no?

A sub detected by cables laid out in BoB can be engaged by smart launching from Port Blair silo. A sub cannot run 200-300km to get out of its range before it reaches diving distance, 2-3min tops... following which you are just dependent on sonar-decoys, which don't really work if you have those underwater sensors triangulating your actual position vis-a-vis the torpedo (which may have acoustic seeker for good measure) .

Only valid point you can raise his if our data link is sub-par.. Which i think it isn't. Subs also can't engage in EW from underwater.

Also stealth sub will have all counter measures deployed

O bhai.. there is no such thing as stealth sub. There are quite subs with very low acoustic signature, but underwater Sonar don't depend on acoustic signature for detection. It's a fucking sonar & unless you are a midget-sub with minimal volume, you can't escape it (reason above see diagrams).

It's as different as "radar stealth" & IR stealth

 

[Lonewolf]

It's what it takes... Downing a sub is herculean task unless the sub is totally caught off guard sleeping like pakis Ghazi.
You reckon enemy will send just one sub? Also stealth sub will have all counter measures deployed and it can fire counter silos in return to cause damage. If subs target is ship then kill probability of silos fired by sub will be higher than ship launching silos to kill sub.

First of all silo mean structure to hold missile or something like that to prevent environmental damage , i was thinking about putting a array of sea based torpedo in sets of 4 with each underwater sonar bed module , as it detects submarine ,and conforms with ground based system of being hostile it can launch all torpedo at it along with launching depth charges , and mines , as it comes near , we may secure a kill and hound away rest of submarine .

 

[flanker99]

Let's take a scenario, no?

A sub detected by cables laid out in BoB can be engaged by smart launching from Port Blair silo. A sub cannot run 200-300km to get out of its range before it reaches diving distance... following which you are just dependent on decoys (which don't really work if you have the underwater sensors triangulating you).

Only valid point you can raise his if our data link is sub-par.. Which i think it isn't. Subs also can't engage in EW from underwater.

Eh surprised ur completely forgetting about the underwater scenario and focusing too much on the missile....the general kill chain is detect general location of the sub-launch the missile-missile reaches the last detected area-missile feed target details to the lwt and drops it- now lwt tries to pin point the sub and go for kill if found.....problems can occur in the first and last part ....last part because the subs dont have to outrun the missile but the light torpedo and yes they can outrun them ...as for datalinks and all that i dont much about them to comment

 

[Lonewolf]

Clam down and can you explain what these two hull are

 

[Gandaberunda]

First of all silo mean structure to hold missile or something like that to prevent environmental damage , i was thinking about putting a array of sea based torpedo in sets of 4 with each underwater sonar bed module , as it detects submarine ,and conforms with ground based system of being hostile it can launch all torpedo at it along with launching depth charges , and mines , as it comes near , we may secure a kill and hound away rest of submarine .

Subs operate in silence and modern subs are as silent as they can. No enemy subs will try to venture as close to enemy as they desire and place themselves from where they can hit enemy assets and scoot. Submarine warfare has changed a lot. Subs carry far greater range of missiles nowadays which provide them an option to launch and scoot from far away without themselves being vulnerable to enemy fire hence navy's investing in ASW helicopters P8i and other Arieal sub hunting assets along with these under water ocean servillance

 

[Bleh]

That's where you're miscalculating the scenario..

detect general location of the sub-launch the missile-missile reaches the last detected area-missile feed target details to the lwt and drops it- now lwt tries to pin point the sub and go for kill if found.....

The whole reason of detecting general location of the sub, then trying to triangulate its direction-speed & launching torpedoes aiming at where it is going to be hoping that the torpedo seeaker will find it..... is totally based on the limitations of surface sonars.

Underwater sonar do not see you hidden against the seabed background, but against the sky. They will detect your position far far accurately unless you are constantly dropping sonar decoys (which you are not going to do unless you know that you are being tracked, and in this case you won't... because of the filthy amount of range these have).



Also AFAIK, we have an air-dropped version of these as depth-sonars which are supposed to be dropped in the location of the submarine to go to certain depth & scan a 50km radius. And that's assuming there's no surface ship nearby!

And you already dead if you're sub blunders into 20-50km of a seabed array. Maybe you have some hope at 100km+ ranges, so all we have to do is make sure there is one sensor every hundred km along a line of the sea bed.

 

[Lonewolf]

Clam down and can you explain what these two hull are View attachment 100237

Beside these two there are 4hull at mdl right now 3are nilgiri , 1vizag class or two nilgiri and two vizag