Project-17A Nilgiri-class Frigate Thread

[ladder]

MoD and IN should consider repeat order of P17A

 

[Lonewolf]

MoD and IN should consider repeat order of P17A

Why should they , it is a good systen ,but they should now go for more heavily armed frigate ,this one have only 40 vls .

One more doubt ,can the barak 8 vls be replaced by a uvls which can fire brahmos , multiple vlsrsam , nirbhay

 

[IndianHawk]

MoD and IN should consider repeat order of P17A

It is inevitable that more frigates will be build. Albeit with incorporating latest technology in batches . Next batch should be project 17B. Almost same Design and displacement but with more sophisticated latest weaponary and sensors.

 

[ladder]

Why should they , it is a good systen ,but they should now go for more heavily armed frigate ,this one have only 40 vls .

One more doubt ,can the barak 8 vls be replaced by a uvls which can fire brahmos , multiple vlsrsam , nirbhay

It is inevitable that more frigates will be build. Albeit with incorporating latest technology in batches . Next batch should be project 17B. Almost same Design and displacement but with more sophisticated latest weaponary and sensors.

Any changes will cause delays, that's my premise of repeat order. See the delay between P-15A to P-15B and from P17 to P17A.
There should always be a trade-off between the number of platforms required, the delay due to addition of additional capabilities in subsequent batches and the incremental enhancement in performance.

About UVLS, Sorry, I don't have updates.

 

[Lonewolf]

Any changes will cause delays, that's my premise of repeat order. See the delay between P-15A to P-15B and from P17 to P17A.
There should always be a trade-off between the number of platforms required, the delay due to addition of additional capabilities in subsequent batches and the incremental enhancement in performance.

About UVLS, Sorry, I don't have updates.

Well ,well , leadership problem was also there ,but what my assessment is work on ngd and ngf are going in background like s5 ssbn , we can hope for some leak , by 2030 ,if no new ship is i inducted except nilgiri class and visakhapatnam class ,they we will have ony 31 figate , destriuer combo , to tackle china we need at least 50, so they will surely start building ngf by 2023

 

[Gessler]

"P-17A project progressing faster than previous warship projects due to modular construction."

Really?

INS Shivalik
Keel Laid: July 2001
Launched: April 2003
(One year, nine months)

INS Nilgiri
Keel Laid: December 2017
Launched: September 2019
(One year, nine months)

It's exactly the same as far as keel laying-to-launch time period is concerned. And I honestly haven't seen what benefits modular construction has brought in the phase of project done so far. In twenty years, yards like MDL have failed to speed up this process by even a little bit - and that's a shame. But that's what you get from DPSUs.

We used to launch a ship when it still doesn't have much of its superstructure and systems in place back then, and that's what we're doing even today even with "modular construction" in place. All the P17As have been launched in 'hull only' mode - bulk of superstructure still not there.

If we're to see any improvement in construction at all, it will be in the 'fitting out' period (where all the complicated subsystems are put in place, along with building of most of the superstructure). And honestly, I don't see any change in attitude on that front either.

The concept of modular construction, at least in the way its practiced in the West, entails shipbuilders across the country who make not only a section of hull, but also install all the electronics, piping, subsystems etc. that go into that module before shipping it off to the final assembly yard - which then puts all the sections together, and also connects all the independent sections of piping & electrical lines into one seamless system.

The fact that P17As still don't have their superstructure at launch, does not bode well for how exactly our DPSU yards are carrying out their version of "modular construction".

 

[Gessler]

The concept of modular construction, at least in the way its practiced in the West, entails shipbuilders across the country who make not only a section of hull, but also install all the electronics, piping, subsystems etc. that go into that module before shipping it off to the final assembly yard - which then puts all the sections together, and also connects all the independent sections of piping & electrical lines into one seamless system.

The fact that P17As still don't have their superstructure at launch, does not bode well for how exactly our DPSU yards are carrying out their version of "modular construction".

To illustrate this point further - this is the state of Queen Elizabeth-class carrier modules before they're shipped off to final assembly yard:

Most everything that needs to go into that section of the ship (pipes, power line routing, ladders, doors pressure monitoring systems etc etc) are installed BEFORE shipping off the module. This reduces lead time and 'fitting out' period is also reduced.

There aren't many pictures of P-17A modules en-route to yard to compare, but the images available of individual modules, like from keel laying ceremonies:

...indicate they are mostly an empty shell at the module stage.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

"P-17A project progressing faster than previous warship projects due to modular construction."

Really?

INS Shivalik
Keel Laid: July 2001
Launched: April 2003
(One year, nine months)

INS Nilgiri
Keel Laid: December 2017
Launched: September 2019
(One year, nine months)

It's exactly the same as far as keel laying-to-launch time period is concerned. And I honestly haven't seen what benefits modular construction has brought in the phase of project done so far. In twenty years, yards like MDL have failed to speed up this process by even a little bit - and that's a shame. But that's what you get from DPSUs.

We used to launch a ship when it still doesn't have much of its superstructure and systems in place back then, and that's what we're doing even today even with "modular construction" in place. All the P17As have been launched in 'hull only' mode - bulk of superstructure still not there.

If we're to see any improvement in construction at all, it will be in the 'fitting out' period (where all the complicated subsystems are put in place, along with building of most of the superstructure). And honestly, I don't see any change in attitude on that front either.

The concept of modular construction, at least in the way its practiced in the West, entails shipbuilders across the country who make not only a section of hull, but also install all the electronics, piping, subsystems etc. that go into that module before shipping it off to the final assembly yard - which then puts all the sections together, and also connects all the independent sections of piping & electrical lines into one seamless system.

The fact that P17As still don't have their superstructure at launch, does not bode well for how exactly our DPSU yards are carrying out their version of "modular construction".

When INS Nilgiri, the lead boat of the class was launched by MDL back in September 2019, you can clearly see that the superstructure was there.
INS Himgiri is being built by GRSE, and it was launched without the superstructure in place, so I guess its more of a shipyard problem and not the modular construction per se.
On the whole, MDL has been faster than GRSE as far as this project is concerned. INS Nilgiri took 21 months from laid down to launch whereas Himgiri took 25 months for the same.
What I am more interested in is how fast they are fitted out and inducted into service, the Shivalik class took on average 7 years for the same, if that period is brought down to 3-4 years, it would be a huge improvement.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Why should they , it is a good systen ,but they should now go for more heavily armed frigate ,this one have only 40 vls .

One more doubt ,can the barak 8 vls be replaced by a uvls which can fire brahmos , multiple vlsrsam , nirbhay

40 VLS( 8 Brahmos + 32 Barak 8) is good enough for now, expect it to be retrofitted with 16-32 VL-SRSAM modules when it goes in for its mid life refit.

 

[ladder]

When INS Nilgiri, the lead boat of the class was launched by MDL back in September 2019, you can clearly see that the superstructure was there.
INS Himgiri is being built by GRSE, and it was launched without the superstructure in place, so I guess its more of a shipyard problem and not the modular construction per se.
On the whole, MDL has been faster than GRSE as far as this project is concerned. INS Nilgiri took 21 months from laid down to launch whereas Himgiri took 25 months for the same.
What I am more interested in is how fast they are fitted out and inducted into service, the Shivalik class took on average 7 years for the same, if that period is brought down to 3-4 years, it would be a huge improvement.
View attachment 80537

GRSE had to deal with the collapse of the Goliath (Gantry) crane, so that might be the reason.

 

[WolfPack86]

GRSE LAYS KEEL OF 3RD SHIP OF PRESTIGIOUS PROJECT 17A ADVANCED STEALTH FRIGATE
Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Limited (GRSE) achieved a major milestone with 'laying of the Keel' of Yard 3024 a ship of the Advanced Stealth Frigate Project, P17A. As per GRSE tradition, the Keel was laid by a senior operative Shri. Mithailal Pasi, Structural Fitter of Shipbuilding Shop at the Main Works Unit of GRSE.


The contract for construction of three Stealth Frigates under Project 17A is the largest ever order awarded to the shipyard by the Ministry of Defence with a value of over Rs.19293 crores. The shipyard despite all challenges amid Covid - 19 pandemic, launched 1st ship of P17A Stealth Frigate "INS Himgiri" ahead of schedule on 14 Dec 20. The Keel laying of Yard 3024 has also been achieved ahead of schedule. It is important to note that the Keels for both 1st & 2nd ships viz, Yard 3022 and Yard 3023 were also laid ahead of schedule on 10 Nov 18 and 24 Jan 20 respectively.

The important milestones of ship building involve the process of Cutting of steel which is called the 'Start Production' stage followed by 'Keel laying' subsequent to which, the other blocks are built around the keel block. The next phase is launching, when the Ship is placed in water for the first time, Subsequently, the ship is outfitted with equipment and systems post launch, followed by trials of equipment. On completion of all trials and once the compartments are ready, the ship is delivered to customer.

P17A ships shall be the most advanced state-of-the-art Guided Missile Frigates, 149 m long, with a displacement of approximately 6670 T and advanced CODOG Propulsion enabling speed of over 28 knots. These complex platforms are equipped with a powerful weapon & sensor package capable of neutralising threats in all three dimensions of Air, Surface & Sub-surface. P17A Stealth Frigates are being built using Integrated Construction Methodology with enhanced pre-outfitting to enhance quality and reduce build periods. M/s Fincantieri, Italy is the Knowhow Provider for Technology Upgrade and Capability Enhancement in this project. An advanced PDM-PLM system is being implemented at GRSE to manage the project over its life cycle.

Since its takeover by the Government of India in 1960, GRSE has delivered high end warships ranging from Fast Patrol Vessels, Survey Vessels, Landing Ship Tanks, Landing Craft Utility, Fleet Tanker to Frigates and Missile/ASW Corvettes. The shipyard has made a significant advancement towards self-reliance in state-of-the-art warship design and construction and furthered 'Atmanirbhar' abhiyaan by achieving over 90% indigenous content onboard ASW Corvettes and Landing Craft Utility ships. Having modernised its infrastructure facilities, today GRSE is in a position to construct 20 warships concurrently using Advanced Modular Integrated Shipbuilding Technology in line with the best in the world.

GRSE's Design Unit has been recognized by Dept. of Scientific & Industrial Research (DSIR). The complete designs of LCUs, Water Jet FACs, Survey Vessel (Large) and ASW - SWCs have been developed by the 100+ member Strong Design Team. The 3D Virtual Reality Lab at GRSE aids in identification of Design/ Construction issues at early Design Stage. GRSE has proven design capabilities to integrate systems onboard its platforms to meet specific needs of its customers.

GRSE is currently executing two more major projects of Indian Navy pertaining to construction of 04 Survey Vessel Large ships and 08 ASWSWC ships apart from the 03 P17A ships. The Shipyard also received an Export Order from Govt of Guyana for Design, Construction and Delivery of 01 Ocean Going Passenger cum Cargo Ferry Vessel and delivered FPV "SGPS Zoroaster" to Govt. of Seychelles. With proven export credentials backed by a healthy order book, the shipyard is well on its way to realise its vision of being a global leader in shipbuilding!

Shares of Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Ltd was last trading in BSE at Rs.203 as compared to the previous close of Rs. 208.1. The total number of shares traded during the day was 14718 in over 389 trades.

GRSE Lays Keel of 3rd Ship of Prestigious Project 17A Advanced Stealth Frigate

Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Limited (GRSE) achieved a major milestone with 'laying of the Keel' of Yard 3024 a ship of the Advan...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[IndianHawk]

Any changes will cause delays, that's my premise of repeat order. See the delay between P-15A to P-15B and from P17 to P17A.
There should always be a trade-off between the number of platforms required, the delay due to addition of additional capabilities in subsequent batches and the incremental enhancement in performance.

About UVLS, Sorry, I don't have updates.

Batch size is increasing.
Project 17 Shivalik were just 3 boats. Follow on Nilgiri 17A class has 7 boats.
Next gen frigate class may have two dozen boats .

Similarly kamorta class p28a was 4 boats. Follow on next gen Corvettes will be 7 boat batch.

Delhi and Kolkata class were 3 each but Vishakhapatnam is 4 boat class which may see follow on order . Or a fresh redesign which will have more numbers.

Shallow water asw Corvettes are being build in batch of 16 simultaneously is 2 yards.

Next gen missile vessel are to be build in batch of 6 .

Fleet support is batch of 5 each with massive 45000 tons.

P75i will be followed by batch of 12 indigenous ssk.

So first we settle on design and refine it then numbers increase.

 

[Gessler]

Similarly kamorta class p28a was 4 boats. Follow on next gen Corvettes will be 7 boat batch.

What's happening with NGC project? There's lots of updates on NGMV (CSL got the contract) but not hearing anything wrt NGC for last couple years.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Batch size is increasing.
Project 17 Shivalik were just 3 boats. Follow on Nilgiri 17A class has 7 boats.
Next gen frigate class may have two dozen boats .

Similarly kamorta class p28a was 4 boats. Follow on next gen Corvettes will be 7 boat batch.

Delhi and Kolkata class were 3 each but Vishakhapatnam is 4 boat class which may see follow on order . Or a fresh redesign which will have more numbers.

Shallow water asw Corvettes are being build in batch of 16 simultaneously is 2 yards.

Next gen missile vessel are to be build in batch of 6 .

Fleet support is batch of 5 each with massive 45000 tons.

P75i will be followed by batch of 12 indigenous ssk.

So first we settle on design and refine it then numbers increase.

Hopefully what you are saying comes out to be true in the near future.
We have the tech, now its all about numbers.

 

[IndianHawk]

What's happening with NGC project? There's lots of updates on NGMV (CSL got the contract) but not hearing anything wrt NGC for last couple years.

No recent news. Hopefully we will soon here about who won the bid soon enough.

 

[Gessler]

To illustrate this point further - this is the state of Queen Elizabeth-class carrier modules before they're shipped off to final assembly yard:

View attachment 80528
View attachment 80529

Most everything that needs to go into that section of the ship (pipes, power line routing, ladders, doors pressure monitoring systems etc etc) are installed BEFORE shipping off the module. This reduces lead time and 'fitting out' period is also reduced.

There aren't many pictures of P-17A modules en-route to yard to compare, but the images available of individual modules, like from keel laying ceremonies:

...indicate they are mostly an empty shell at the module stage.

Finally, found some pics of P-17A modules being transferred to final assembly yard, like I expected, they are just emply shells with none of the internal systems pre-installed like on Western modular construction. Explains why there's no perceived improvement in timelines in the phase of construction conducted so far -

 

[FalconSlayers]

@ezsasa @Indx TechStyle We’ve got some Wuhan Virus strain on this forum...

当晚，闫立萌就引起了整个右翼媒体的轰动。特朗普总统的高级顾问和有权势的保守派将她视为英雄。社交媒体同样迅速将她的采访标记为假新闻。科学家拒绝了她的研究，并说这是用行话伪装的诡辩。事实上，在从本科到博士的教育过程中，闫的专业领域根本就不是病毒学，甚至不是科学。事实上，严的“世界顶级病毒学家”的称号纯属虚构。严教授发表的一系列论文是网络阴谋论的抄袭。同样，这也受到主流科学界的鄙视。

 

[FalconSlayers]

Overnight, Yan Limeng has caused a sensation throughout the right wing media. The senior adviser of President Trump and conservatives who has authority seem her as a hero. The social media labelled her interview as a fake news just as quickly. Scientists refused her research and said that was sophistry disguised in jargon. In fact, in the process of undergraduate to doctoral education, Yan’s areas of expertise are not virology at all, not even science. In fact, Yan’s title of “Top virologist of World” is sheer fiction. A series of papers published by Yan were copy from conspiracy theory on the Internet. Also, that is despised by the mainstream scientific community.

@tarunraju @hit&run bat mucher spotted

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Mods , fifty cent wumao in nilgiri class thread spotted.

 

[fire starter]

Ins imphal.