MMRCA news and discussions.

[dineshchaturvedi]

I will anytime pick Russia over USA. We should never forget they are till date our most reliable friend, having said that criteria for buying MMRCA should be dependent on what servers our purpose best. I have serious doubts about USA, Pakistan is being crying that they face santions on weapon. If we have a means to get over it fine, but we should keep this in mind, I do not like blackmail from USA. I am not a anti USA person, just that on this deal I want to be safe. I also have feelings for Russia.

 

[Tamil]

If that is your criteria for who should win MMRCA then Russia wins hands down. All contenders have supplied more to Pakistan than we have.

i agree with you i never americans, i trust russians b'cos we are friends 4 long time since independence india.russia never give its advance technologies to help or arm india at any time.

Brilliant assertion. And why is there a sea of difference??

Does that mean, the west can sell to both countries while Russia can only sell to India?

And we stop $20-30Billion worth of deals with Russia simply because they sold some engines worth $100million to Pak till date.

if we think like this we are the stupid in this world

the fact is that nothing is more agile than the Mig 35 , u can say whatever about other aircraft ,EF2K super cruises ,that is useless as of now because super cruise is very limited ,at specific level and at specific payload ,it can super cruise , not afeature to boast about , even raptor cannot boast that it can do 100% super cruise

dude read ,my post again , A parametric analysis and power aperture modelling is performed on the Zhuk ASE, which is a scaled up version of the Zhuk AE following the model of the Zhuk MSFE built for the Mig 35. The Fulcrum sized Zhuk ASE radar with existing Russian transmit receive module technology will deliver around 60 percent higher raw power aperture performance compared to US APG-79 (F/A-18E/F BII) and APG-81 (JSF) class radars,. there u go ,ni IF AND ONLT IF . it is already in trials . do not under estimate russian radar because that Zhuk ASE radar is the first version which already matches the American AESA radar ,upgrades are bound to come rather by the time first Mig 35 reaches India , second version will be out surpassing the American radar , plus Russia still has a censored press espicially under putin , they do not release exact specification about their sensitive technology . America does not even know the radar signature of Su 30MKi bars radar

P.S- EVEN RAF ADMITTED THAT SU 30MKI IS MORE AGILE THAN THE EF

i agree with you

 

[mattster]

there has been a lot of comments by readers saying that the Russians are the safe choice and other such stuff.

My question is: Why should India buy a platform like the MIG-35 that is totally unproven even though it is a derivative of the proven MIG-29 series.

Basically its a new system that is not even used by the Russians, and its really a rehash of the old MIG-29 with new unproven radars and avionics and TVC. It almost looks like it was created exclusively by the Russians to give the Russians something to offer at the MMRCA tender.

Bottom line is if you are going to spend that much cash on 120+ planes, you might as well get a more reliable, not too old, and easily maintainable fighter like the F-18 or Gripens, or if you want a newer high tech platform then go for the Rafale.

I just dont see the why the MIG-35 or F-16 wins, unless cost is the major criteria. I am sure that all of these fighters will meet the minimum performance requirements.

 

[ppgj]

My question is: Why should India buy a platform like the MIG-35 that is totally unproven even though it is a derivative of the proven MIG-29 series.

you have answered yourself.

 

[prahladh]

why is Mig-35 in the MMRCA list even thought it doesn't have IOC? Is IOC obsolete

 

[ppgj]

why is Mig-35 in the MMRCA list even thought it doesn't have IOC? Is IOC obsolete

you think it can fly in air shows and trials without that?

 

[prahladh]

you think it can fly in air shows and trials without that?

even LCA flied in an airshow. does it have IOC? I couldn't find any credible source mentioning IOC of Mig-35. So I just want to know if it has IOC.

 

[ppgj]

even LCA flied in an airshow. does it have IOC? I couldn't find any credible source mentioning IOC of Mig-35. So I just want to know if it has IOC.

LCA is a brand new aircraft of india which has not built any before. whereas mig-35 is an upgraded version of mig-29 which has decades of operational experience. it does not take extensive trials like LCA to be operational. in the same way LCA mark 2 will not go thro' what LCA is going thro' for air worthiness.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

you think it can fly in air shows and trials without that?

IOC stand Initial Operational Clearence. When a new jet is developed and passes prototyping test then the airforce which would be the primary user of the plane gives the plane IOC so that any glitches or defects can be retefied with minimum losses. Quality control can also be easily enforced in this stage.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

To all the Mig-35 supporters,
Can you people tell me why Mig-35 is coming as open architecture platform?
As per me either its electronics/avionics are not yet developed or are not upto mark.

 

[arya]

hi guys

i think the fight between rafale and mig35 both have strong points and weak points

like raffle is really good and can provide a great firepower to india its a good option but its cost is just a single problem but its nothing for nation

mig35 is also good plane but we can not put all balls in a basket yes we can think for 20 su35 planes which will be 4-5% more advance then the su30+ as they offer to India

the race is just between raffle and mig35

jai hind

 

[mattster]

The Russians could not offer the old MIG-29 to the Indians for the MMRCA tender.

So what did they do ?? - they took the old MIG-29 platform, slapped some updated avionics with sexy digital screens, put it a new AESA radar that they are still testing, and changed the engine to include TVC. Its still an old Soviet maintenance intensive airframe design.

Then they re-badged it as an "MIG-35". Its really a MIG-29 with a couple of incremental upgrades that have not been proven out completely.

The MIG-29 platform has probably been around for 30 years or more, just like the F-16s.

Why should a country like India which is spending so much cash on the big ticket item like this go for a 30 year old airframe design when you have much newer and better options ??

 

[ppgj]

IOC stand Initial Operational Clearence. When a new jet is developed and passes prototyping test then the airforce which would be the primary user of the plane gives the plane IOC so that any glitches or defects can be retefied with minimum losses. Quality control can also be easily enforced in this stage.

know that friend. and mig 35 is not a new jet. it is an enhanced mig-29. that is why ioc is not something one needs to worry.

To all the Mig-35 supporters,
Can you people tell me why Mig-35 is coming as open architecture platform?
As per me either its electronics/avionics are not yet developed or are not upto mark.

you are right to an extent. russians are good in engineering and not so in avionics. they allow it to be customised and that is how su 30mki happened. it won't be a surprise if the same happens to mig if IAF goes for it. now that said i am not a fanboy of any. i trust our AF will go for what is best.

 

[ppgj]

So what did they do ?? - they took the old MIG-29 platform, slapped some updated avionics with sexy digital screens, put it a new AESA radar that they are still testing, and changed the engine to include TVC. Its still an old Soviet maintenance intensive airframe design.

Then they re-badged it as an "MIG-35". Its really a MIG-29 with a couple of incremental upgrades that have not been proven out completely.

The MIG-29 platform has probably been around for 30 years or more, just like the F-16s.

nothing has been decided. all are battling it out still. if what you is say true, then trust IAF will not go for it. all the aircrafts in the contests have positives and negatives. the point you say to mig holds true to f-18, f-16 too.

 

[AJSINGH]

there has been a lot of comments by readers saying that the Russians are the safe choice and other such stuff.

My question is: Why should India buy a platform like the MIG-35 that is totally unproven even though it is a derivative of the proven MIG-29 series.

Basically its a new system that is not even used by the Russians, and its really a rehash of the old MIG-29 with new unproven radars and avionics and TVC. It almost looks like it was created exclusively by the Russians to give the Russians something to offer at the MMRCA tender.

Bottom line is if you are going to spend that much cash on 120+ planes, you might as well get a more reliable, not too old, and easily maintainable fighter like the F-18 or Gripens, or if you want a newer high tech platform then go for the Rafale.

I just dont see the why the MIG-35 or F-16 wins, unless cost is the major criteria. I am sure that all of these fighters will meet the minimum performance requirements.

do you really think Mig 35 is unproven , yeh right , why did IAF allow to let it take part in MMRCA competition in the first place , Russians do not have any need of Mig 35 , it is their choice but IAF does , so if does not matter weather Russians induct Mig 35 or not .
Do not talk about yankees jets because they have experienced combat ,but against what , taliban air force or Iraq air force , please combat experience is only for show off nothing else

and yes it is develped exclusively by the russians for IAF ,

IAF is very happy with Mig 29 nothing can beat the advance version of Mig 35 in agility

 

[AJSINGH]

why is Mig-35 in the MMRCA list even thought it doesn't have IOC? Is IOC obsolete

Mig 35 has IOC by the way ,

 

[AJSINGH]

The Russians could not offer the old MIG-29 to the Indians for the MMRCA tender.

So what did they do ?? - they took the old MIG-29 platform, slapped some updated avionics with sexy digital screens, put it a new AESA radar that they are still testing, and changed the engine to include TVC. Its still an old Soviet maintenance intensive airframe design.

Then they re-badged it as an "MIG-35". Its really a MIG-29 with a couple of incremental upgrades that have not been proven out completely.

The MIG-29 platform has probably been around for 30 years or more, just like the F-16s.

Why should a country like India which is spending so much cash on the big ticket item like this go for a 30 year old airframe design when you have much newer and better options ??

dude you really need to research more about Mig 35 , the airframe life of Mig 35 is much more than the Mig 29 , with greater payload capacity , more combat range , and all over new avionics , radar is the first Russsian ASEA which is already giving nightmares to lockheed martin and boeing

your theory that Mig 35 is not yet proven does not hold much because if that was the case IAF wont have allowed Mig 35 to take part and let me tell you " combat proven " wont hold any weight in the final decision
in 1985 when India bought Mig 29 , then also it was in development phase and was " unproven " ,yet IAF bought those aircraft and is very happy with Mig 29

 

[AJSINGH]

​

To all the Mig-35 supporters,
Can you people tell me why Mig-35 is coming as open architecture platform?
As per me either its electronics/avionics are not yet developed or are not upto mark.

why Mig 35 comes with open architecture is because IAF wants that way , plus that feature depends on the customer also , that does not mean it has inferior avionics or radar or anything
Mig 35 just allows the end user to modify the aircraft specifically according to its needs , that does not mean that russians dont have any good EW equiment

 

[AJSINGH]

The Russians could not offer the old MIG-29 to the Indians for the MMRCA tender.

So what did they do ?? - they took the old MIG-29 platform, slapped some updated avionics with sexy digital screens, put it a new AESA radar that they are still testing, and changed the engine to include TVC. Its still an old Soviet maintenance intensive airframe design.

Then they re-badged it as an "MIG-35". Its really a MIG-29 with a couple of incremental upgrades that have not been proven out completely.

The MIG-29 platform has probably been around for 30 years or more, just like the F-16s.

Why should a country like India which is spending so much cash on the big ticket item like this go for a 30 year old airframe design when you have much newer and better options ??

till the Mig 35 comes to India for trials , it will be better than the SH or SV
it has new redisgned airframe with very less maintenance , please do know what you are talking about
plus we have already operated Mig 29 , that gives an edge to Mig 35 because of the common spares and overhaul facilities


P.S SH AND SV ARE OLD 1970S AIRFRAME BUT MIG 35 IS TOTALLY NEW

 

[mattster]

do you really think Mig 35 is unproven , yeh right , why did IAF allow to let it take part in MMRCA competition in the first place , Russians do not have any need of Mig 35 , it is their choice but IAF does , so if does not matter weather Russians induct Mig 35 or not .
Do not talk about yankees jets because they have experienced combat ,but against what , taliban air force or Iraq air force , please combat experience is only for show off nothing else

and yes it is develped exclusively by the russians for IAF ,

IAF is very happy with Mig 29 nothing can beat the advance version of Mig 35 in agility

Given the close ties between India & Russia in the military field, I dont think that India could have rejected the Russian MMRCA entry even if they were not interested in it. Its just too political !!

My feeling is that the IAF guys will want a more reliable newer platform with state of the art avionics, proven AESA radar, and easy maintenance, high reliability, and with highly reliable spare supplies.