MMRCA news and discussions.

[AJSINGH]

Well this is interesting

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indeed interesting but India case is different , we dont want to spend more to make these fighters better ,well at leat for now . later like after 5 or 6 years of service HAL will be read with upgrades .plus here we are not facing maintanience manpower shortage

 

[Vladimir79]

Well this is interesting

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They been in talks about it awhile.

AFP: UAE eyes France's Rafale fighter

 

[AJSINGH]

They been in talks about it awhile.

AFP: UAE eyes France's Rafale fighter

i woud like your opnion on my post number #951 .i did preliminary analysis of rafale and Mig 35

 

[Vladimir79]

i woud like your opnion on my post number #951 .i did preliminary analysis of rafale and Mig 35

To put it briefly, MiG-35 has better radar, more manueverability, and better weapons selsection. I was reading that Rafale article and noticed they said that the Rafale has a less than carry load in the French configuration and UAE wanted to improve it. If this is true then Rafale isn't living up to specs and India is going to be getting the short end of capability.

 

[p2prada]

To put it briefly, MiG-35 has better radar, more manueverability, and better weapons selsection. I was reading that Rafale article and noticed they said that the Rafale has a less than carry load in the French configuration and UAE wanted to improve it. If this is true then Rafale isn't living up to specs and India is going to be getting the short end of capability.

I don't know what you were reading, but, Rafale can carry 9.5 tons. No idea what more UAE requires. Perhaps a free elephant with the Rafale.

 

[Sridhar]

I don't know what you were reading, but, Rafale can carry 9.5 tons. No idea what more UAE requires. Perhaps a free elephant with the Rafale.

I also failed to understand when he said the French radar is a junk while it had better detection range , more no of targets tracked and attacked and better MTBF by means of GA T/R modules instead of GN. It has finished its tests when Zhuk started it and is already in limited series production .

 

[Vladimir79]

I also failed to understand when he said the French radar is a junk while it had better detection range , more no of targets tracked and attacked and better MTBF by means of GA T/R modules instead of GN. It has finished its tests when Zhuk started it and is already in limited series production .

Let me break it down for you.

It can track a 30 sqft target at 60 Nm while it can track standard at 75 Nm

It can track upto 40 targets simultaneously while engaging 8 of them.

Zhuk AE can track 3m^2 at 130km and track standard at 148km. 60nm is only 111km and 75nm is only 138. Zhuk AE might only track 30 targets but can engage 8 as well. There is not going to be a follow up SELEX AESA, Zhuk will be upgraded to 200km with 1,100 T/R modules of which the IAF will recieve. Given the marked increase in performance of an almost 2:1 ratio, it is clearly in favour of the Zhuk.

 

[Vladimir79]

I don't know what you were reading, but, Rafale can carry 9.5 tons. No idea what more UAE requires. Perhaps a free elephant with the Rafale.

Read the article... "the French version is not optimal for takeoffs in hot and dry countries, or if the plane is heavily loaded with fuel and ammunition."

 

[Sridhar]

Let me break it down for you.



Zhuk AE can track 3m^2 at 130km and track standard at 148km. 60nm is only 111km and 75nm is only 138. Zhuk AE might only track 30 targets but can engage 8 as well. There is not going to be a follow up SELEX AESA, Zhuk will be upgraded to 200km with 1,100 T/R modules of which the IAF will recieve. Given the marked increase in performance of an almost 2:1 ratio, it is clearly in favour of the Zhuk.

My apologies.the figures mentioned are of RBE 2(Pesa) not RBE 2 AA(Aesa). IIRC Zhuk AE can attack only 6 of its 30 targets.

RBE 2 AA will have 50 % increase in detection range and performance. So 222 km approx is the detection range.

 

[Vladimir79]

My apologies.the figures mentioned are of RBE 2(Pesa) not RBE 2 AA(Aesa). IIRC Zhuk AE can attack only 6 of its 30 targets.

RBE 2 AA will have 50 % increase in detection range and performance. So 222 km approx is the detection range.

Well here is the caveat... a 50% increase on 111km is not 222. That would be a 100% increase so it is still below Zhuk's numbers. The tests made by the French weren't even with their own T/R modules. They were imported from the US. They can't even make their own radar yet.

 

[Sridhar]

Well here is the caveat... a 50% increase on 111km is not 222. That would be a 100% increase so it is still below Zhuk's numbers. The tests made by the French weren't even with their own T/R modules. They were imported from the US. They can't even make their own radar yet.

I have applied the increase on the max detection range of 148 and 50 % is the least increase expected.

 

[Vladimir79]

The article you posted only said a "significant" increase. Considering they don't even know how to make T/R modules, it is a "significant" boast.

 

[Sridhar]

The article you posted only said a "significant" increase. Considering they don't even know how to make T/R modules, it is a "significant" boast.

The new radar is designed to boost range by more than 50 percent compared with the Rafale's current passive array radar, offering compatibility with the Meteor beyond-visual-range missile. The equipment also is intended to improve reliability; deliver high-resolution synthetic-aperture imagery in the air-to-ground mode; and be more resistant to jamming.

Thales, DGA Test Radar for Rafale - Defense News

T/R modules

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Thales develops, products and tests T/R modules for active antenna in cooperation with EMS technology.
The corresponding technologies are all mastered by Thales and dual-use, so development and production of space T/R modules can benefit from the experience gained in airborne and ground active antennas production.

T/R modules - Thales Group

Thales has been working with United Monolithic Semiconductors (UMS), a Franco-German enterprise owned by EADS and Thales, developing and producing microwave T/R modules. UMS optimized the gallium arsenide modules forming the radar’s antenna.

http://defense-update.com/features/du-1-07/aesaradar_rafale.htm

 

[p2prada]

Read the article... "the French version is not optimal for takeoffs in hot and dry countries, or if the plane is heavily loaded with fuel and ammunition."

Weather problems may be a problem for now. Let's see how the Rafale fares in the Trials in Jaisalmer. Mirage-2000s face no such problems.

That's why Dassault Must make an aircraft that handles all types of weather conditions for their sales pitch. Bringing a European version in the dessert is suicide for the corporation. They are never adequately tropicalised.

Also, right now, the Rafale is flying with a 7.5 tons thrust engine. It will be upgraded to 9 tons in the immediate future. The M-88-3 will be in trials pretty soon.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

Is there a tentative date when the MRCA decision would be made?

I read in some news that Mig 35 would start production only by 2013!! Will it take so much time for the final decision to be made?

 

[VayuSena1]

Is there a tentative date when the MRCA decision would be made?

I read in some news that Mig 35 would start production only by 2013!! Will it take so much time for the final decision to be made?

Call it a tragedy, but I assume that the Government is in their usual stupor in selection procedure as usual and then blames us in taking the so-called late decisions. Simply put, we cannot take any evaluation without the cabinet's clearance and till those men do their homework, we cannot show the people our classwork.

 

[Vladimir79]

Is there a tentative date when the MRCA decision would be made?

I read in some news that Mig 35 would start production only by 2013!! Will it take so much time for the final decision to be made?

Don't worry about a 2012 start date. The RTF leaves plenty of time to get Sokol running a line. We only have to deliever 18, the most important part is getting the HAL line up to speed and no one can do it faster. We are already going to have the engine plant running before any other competitor can dream of, and the other competitors still have to fix their radars.

 

[Martian]

Obviously I can't read all 100 posts. However, I want to say that I think all of the planes in the MMRCA poll are roughly in the same ballpark. Therefore I believe India should buy the plane from whichever manufacturer is willing to best comply with a TOTAL transfer of technology on engine and avionics technology. For 12 billion dollars, India might as well buy something that will have a long-term and lasting impact.