Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Archer]

Definitely? http://www.bel-india.com/index.aspx?q=&sectionid=315

Troll FAIL? You wont stop now will you now that you have hurt your ego. It looks the same? May be your PC is shit and you need a new monitor. How do you look at the monitor and compare? How old are you! lol.

Just one thing - thats the DRDO BEL IMGMS developed as an alternative to the current GMS which uses a GPS (Gunners Panoramic Sight) from the Netherlands. The Army in its wisdom placed such limited batch to batch orders for the Arjun that it makes little sense to have two different GMS. Instead, its likely the current GMS will be retained and license produced in a more modern version (with autotracking). The GMS experience came in handy to develop a FCS for the Abhay TD though.

But it looks very similar to the Dutch FCS, rest of the systems e.g Indian BC are same, both have the same/similar Thermal Imagers.

All this stuff about resolution by Damian is bunk.

Both Arjun and T-90 have same generation Thermal Imagers, Sagem MATIS and Thales Catherine respectively. Problem is latter conks out in heat since it was not ruggedized.

 

[Damian]

Fair because it was less? Is that your criterion for, right? lmao.

They have copy pasted from the internet along with their data on Arjun. They dont gain anything in that 3kmph speed, it may even take more time to reach the 70kmph than the Europen tanks but it sure as hell has beaten the T-90.

Not because less, because more realistic.

You mean you have x-ray vision? How did you see the components inside, let me guess you just saw the turret and to a guess! LMAO!! FAIL.

? I said only about what I seen, nothing less, nothing more, learn to read with understanding.

The link works fine, it is an BEL made sight and it has nothing to do with German tanks, we shared the same designer who gave both Germany and India the same exterior armor sloping design, from there we never evolved separately over the years.

Nope, link don't work.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Just one thing - thats the DRDO BEL IMGMS developed as an alternative to the current GMS which uses a GPS (Gunners Panoramic Sight) from the Netherlands. The Army in its wisdom placed such limited batch to batch orders for the Arjun that it makes little sense to have two different GMS. Instead, its likely the current GMS will be retained and license produced in a more modern version (with autotracking). The GMS experience came in handy to develop a FCS for the Abhay TD though.

But it looks very similar to the Dutch FCS, rest of the systems e.g Indian BC are same, both have the same/similar Thermal Imagers.

All this stuff about resolution by Damian is bunk.

Both Arjun and T-90 have same generation Thermal Imagers, Sagem MATIS and Thales Catherine respectively. Problem is latter conks out in heat since it was not ruggedized.

I took this picture in Aero India at the BEL counter. I think this is the secondary thermal sight or primary sight not sure, i forgot but it had GPS and other navigation systems and it was made in India and used in Arjun.

 

[Damian]

All this stuff about resolution by Damian is bunk.

For You, I know what I seen on that video.

I took this picture in Aero India at the BEL counter. I think this is the secondary thermal sight or primary sight not sure, i forgot but it had GPS and other navigation systems and it was made in India and used in Arjun.

This thing looks more like some sight for recce units.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Not because less, because more realistic.



? I said only about what I seen, nothing less, nothing more, learn to read with understanding.



Nope, link don't work.

You did not say anything so far, you where trolling without facts calling it German, you did not know what sight the MBT had and you where comparing the resolution based on PICTURES! lmao.. FAIL.

 

[Damian]

You did not say anything so far, you where trolling without facts calling it German, you did not know what sight the MBT had and you where comparing the resolution based on PICTURES! lmao.. FAIL.

Oh stop with these childish "LMAO" and "Fail" words...

Yes it looks that way, like the german sight, is seen similarities so I wrote about them.

 

[Archer]

For You, I know what I seen on that video.

Yup. We all know about your x-ray vision by now..in your world, the resolution drop in seeing a low rez image of a video image = actual resolution of a modern French TI as available to the gunner ..perfect logic.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

For You, I know what I seen on that video.



This thing looks more like some sight for recce units.

It is not for recce, it belongs in the Arjun may be it is secondary sight i dont remember because there was so much and i could not remember everything they said. SOme of the DRDO made sights are on my profile.

 

[Damian]

Yup. We all know about your x-ray vision by now..in your world, the resolution drop in seeing a low rez image of a video image = actual resolution of a modern French TI as available to the gunner ..perfect logic.

I did not say that resolution is bad, in fact it have very good resolution, I'm not stupid, I know to take in to consideration resolution drop from video.

And I'm still hold my statement, sight view is similiar to that on Leopard 2.

It is not for recce, it belongs in the Arjun may be it is secondary sight i dont remember because there was so much and i could not remember everything they said. SOme of the DRDO made sights are on my profile.

Look at it's size, and it looks like there is some sort of view ocular behind it, it more looks like thermal sight for recce, scouts etc. Portabale sight of course.

 

[Archer]

I took this picture in Aero India at the BEL counter. I think this is the secondary thermal sight or primary sight not sure, i forgot but it had GPS and other navigation systems and it was made in India and used in Arjun.

Thanks - do you have more images?

That is a HHTI thanks to the grip and button controls, at the side.

Here it is.

http://www.bel-india.com/index.aspx?q=&sectionid=106

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Oh stop with these childish "LMAO" and "Fail" words...

Yes it looks that way, like the german sight, is seen similarities so I wrote about them.

Its better than trolling without facts and calling members morons and abusing them like you did right? You did FAIL and that IT.

How does it look the same? Moreover your right leg looks the same as your left leg may be you should be careful while walking and not confuse which leg is moveing and bump into a wall. duhh!


http://www.bel-india.com/
Here is the BEL link..Surf it and find out or google BEL and find it from there, may be your from Pakistan or china there Indian sites are banned, that explains your attitude!!

 

[Archer]

They don't wan't tell, but You should understand them, most of CR2's will be cut to scrap.

Only 135 from whole fleet will remain in service.

These are hard times for UK Army tank corps.

Yes, but you do get the point right, that marginal differences in top speed are meaningless..

But it is a fact, T-64 weight was 37-38 tons, and it was superiory protected to the 58 tons heavy tanks of these times back then.

That was then. Today, you have research access to all sorts of ballistic tests, open collaboration, its a far more open world now & most designers in the west (and India has access to most of these sources) are roughly on par...

Once again, what types of ammunition, give me designation names, it is so hard? Ammunition designation names are not classified.

Speculating about designations = talking about what the Arjun armor can withstand. There is no merit in this - not for as an Indian who is aware this is a MBT which may go to war. Why talk about frontline equipment in detail.

You said that Army wan't all around cover of ERA right? So how they will solve problem with ERA covering engine vents? Simple question simple answer. .

All around as in top coverage of the turret and towards the rear of the tank's flanks. * Not ERA in every nook and cranny.

The Arjun is basically designed for tank to tank combat - whereas the Army wants it to be more multirole including fighting in built up areas (hence ERA for ATGMs including chopper fired) and a RWS.
* Even this will be limited to what is operationally feasible

 

[Damian]

Its better than trolling without facts and calling members morons and abusing them like you did right? You did FAIL and that IT.

When I call someone a moron I have a good reason, and I'm not trolling... talk with hurra "patriots"...

How does it look the same?

Did You even seen view from EMES-15? No? So it is not something surprising that You don't understand when I say similiar, same.

http://www.bel-india.com/
Here is the BEL link..Surf it and find out or google BEL and find it from there, may be your from Pakistan or china there Indian sites are banned, that explains your attitude!!

I'm not Pakistani, nor Chinese, I'm a Pole, 100%. Maybe some Indian sites are banned everywhere besides India?!

 

[Damian]

Yes, but you do get the point right, that marginal differences in top speed are meaningless..

Ok agree, however still this data table is not good source, there were no comparative tests between mentioned tanks, so such data tables should not been made.

That was then. Today, you have research access to all sorts of ballistic tests, open collaboration, its a far more open world now & most designers in the west (and India has access to most of these sources) are roughly on par...

What makes You think that other designers give your designers their data on armor development? And if even, how do You know if that data is not based on outdated armor technology? So how can You state that it is roughly on par?

Speculating about designations = talking about what the Arjun armor can withstand. There is no merit in this - not for as an Indian who is aware this is a MBT which may go to war. Why talk about frontline equipment in detail.

I have a simple question, what types of ammunition was used? Give me their designation names. I like details, details can tell You many things.

All around as in top coverage of the turret and towards the rear of the tank's flanks. * Not ERA in every nook and cranny.

The Arjun is basically designed for tank to tank combat - whereas the Army wants it to be more multirole including fighting in built up areas (hence ERA for ATGMs including chopper fired) and a RWS.
* Even this will be limited to what is operationally feasible

Now this sounds better, You see, it wasn't hard, details are important even in argumentation.

 

[Archer]

When I call someone a moron I have a good reason, and I'm not trolling... talk with hurra "patriots"...

Pot meet kettle..

I'm not Pakistani, nor Chinese, I'm a Pole, 100%. Maybe some Indian sites are banned everywhere besides India?!

If the BEL website is banned in Poland, that would be news...given how much Radwar tries to work with BEL and India!

 

[Damian]

If the BEL website is banned in Poland, that would be news...given how much Radwar tries to work with BEL and India!

Or just servers can't made connection, or there any other problems.

 

[Archer]

Ok agree, however still this data table is not good source, there were no comparative tests between mentioned tanks, so such data tables should not been made.

Made for the media. These are how conversations go "so you say Arjun is a heavy MBT, show us other specifications"...

What makes You think that other designers give your designers they data on armor development? And even how do You know if that data is not based on outdated armor technology? So how can You state that it is roughly on par?

Money talks..besides which sharing general design information is meaningless unlesss you can productionize it. Which is where these issues come up as a way of ensuring JVs.

I have a simple question, what types of ammunition was used? Give me their designation names. I like details, details can tell You many things.

Exactly. But it is not in our interest to talk of these designation names even if I could guess at them because by doing so we can determine Arjun's key details. For that matter, I have deliberately not asked for info on T-90s armour tests either. Both these tanks are in Indian frontline service.

Now this sounds better, You see, it wasn't hard, details are important even in argumentation.

Fair enough.

 

[militarysta]

Are you aware of a simple thing called VDrop?

Not only, rather: type of rod (shape, MJ,), angle that hits the target, distance, etc.

ps. I konw - OPSPEC, but this is main idea ;-)

frankly, its all good for teenagers!

So F***in good, that part od that material (ammunition storage,safe angles, structural weaknesses) are in the official instructions.

Again - Shopnehauer still alive as I see...

Last time I actually asked one developer about the so called weakened areas you and your chums on forums come up with for the Leopard 2A4 etc, he had a hearty laugh,

When I saw "analysis" Leopard2A4 on btvt I did the same...

BTW: In what way turret sides in Ajrun are protected? In leo2 you have 33cm sides. In Ajrun?

because most of these areas were taken care of on the Arjun, exterior pics apart!

??

Idiots did not even have a clue that the Arjun resisted live fire tests in those weakened areas to the extent that the T series tank cannot!

Brillant... what ammo in what area. As I said -all i depend on ammo type.
It's huge diffrence have hit form 9M114 and 9M163... or PG-7V or PG-7VL.
You know that.

The biggest bunch of BS'ers on the net are a bunch of rabid Russians. With nice little arrows, and 45 deg cones made nicenly out of the T-90 frontal area and what not it becomes a magic tank with better armor layout than every other tank out there. Reality begs otherwise.

But they have true? Have You read CIA analyst about 80' Sowiet tanks? I do. It's not so simple and taht "little arows" can "save" ~15t in Sowiet tanks.

Since you have no idea of the tests the Arjun faced, the angles the projectiles were fired at it, and even the types..

Grate - "we don't know what ammo, so Ajrun must be the best tank". :-/
Oh really?

Dude, belive me I know something about that. Even this stupid EMES-15 gap give only ~10% chance to "get it" on 1500m, but Ajrun turret is so... unusual taht I have really doubt what have better protected turret - T-90/Ajrun.
face to face is not only scenario.

 

[Archer]

Or just servers can't made connection, or there any other problems.

A proxy might work. The BEL wesbite is opening ok for me?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

When I call someone a moron I have a good reason, and I'm not trolling... talk with hurra "patriots"...

Ok show us your facts that it is a German sight? You where so confident and abuseing us without knowing that, that makes your a failed troll.

Did You even seen view from EMES-15? No? So it is not something surprising that You don't understand when I say similiar, same.

I have been surfing the net since 1996 and i have been reading up on defence stuff ever since then, i know what the Arjun is and i know what it has, i dont need you tell me "what you think" what you think is not fact or a learned argument to put forth and waste other peoples time.

I'm not Pakistani, nor Chinese, I'm a Pole, 100%. Maybe some Indian sites are banned everywhere besides India?!

India is DEMOCRACY and we dont censor web sites, like communists and half baked democracies. I dont know much about Poland and so far ALL the pols i meet on the net where down right racists and rude. I think they have an inferiority complex compared to Western europe and they say Raceist stuff just to feel superior and hide their inferiority complex. They are whites but some how this complex exists in eastern block nations. I dont know, so far all the pols i have meet have said terrible things be it on Chatrollute or when i see them here in my country.

I dont hate or dislike pols, i wish well for them but i dont like Nazis, Islamics, Commies acting smart here. This is Secular Democratic forum based on India.