Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

If Tanks have to evolve, which path they should follow?

  • Light Vehicles-Best for mobility

    Votes: 25 7.3%
  • Heavy Armour-Can take heavy punishment.

    Votes: 57 16.7%
  • Modular Design-Allowing dynamic adaptions.

    Votes: 198 58.1%
  • Universal Platform-Best for logistics.

    Votes: 61 17.9%

  • Total voters
    341

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
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How do we can belive You that You talked with tank developer? Any proof of that? :)

I can say that my close friend is president Reagan, do You belive me?

You see, this is how worth are Your statements.
Have you read this report? This is an reputed news paper.

Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90

Educate yourself about things before blindly arguing, India has more T-90s than poland or even Russia, there is a reason to be critical when necessary. We know the capabilities of both these tanks.
Broadsword: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90
 

Archer

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How do we can belive You that You talked with tank developer? Any proof of that? :)

I can say that my close friend is president Reagan, do You belive me?

You see, this is how worth are Your statements.
My chances of meeting developers are far more than your chances of meeting Reagan, since he is dead.
Second, its not that hard to run into developers and users art arms shows and trade conferences and discuss issues with them, of a public nature. Which is why, unlike you, my belief in Russian systems is not infallible. What I know (and don't know) also comes from the real world issues being faced by India today. Unlike you, I have no fanatical belief that just because India buys Russian, its great. Sometimes it is (AK-47) and sometimes it isnt.

Furthermore, I know far more about Indian procurement than you do. And its problems.
 

Damian

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Have you read this report? This is an reputed news paper.

Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90
What?! A news paper as a good source?! Haha.

Educate yourself about things before blindly arguing, India has more T-90s than poland or even Russia, there is a reason to be critical when necessary. We know the capabilities of both these tanks.
Broadsword: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90
Ah that silly data table where Arjun that is heavier, have weaker engine and same suspension type is faster on roads than Leclerc... yeah riiight, and pink pigs are just flying high in to the sky!
 

Damian

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My chances of meeting developers are far more than your chances of meeting Reagan, since he is dead.
Read my post again, You understand such thing like sarcasm?

Second, its not that hard to run into developers and users art arms shows and trade conferences and discuss issues with them, of a public nature.
I can say the same, You think we don't have arms shows in Poland? So give me a proof that You were talking with Arjun developers.
 

p2prada

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P2P, if you were not a teenager with an attitude, you'd actually be worried about your own antics viz embarassment or what not. First, get off your butt sometime and go learn, after dropping the stupid attitude that you actually know more than people who have actually done the legwork to understand these issues in detail.
It's amazing how low you have stooped. In this entire charade you have not given one single bit of information that is actually related to anything we are discussing. Perhaps calling me a teenager satisfies your ego. But to me you are merely an embarrassment.

You say the issues with most Russian weapons have been sorted out. Thats the most stupid thing I have read so far from your end, when they havent! Problems keep cropping up and India sorts them out via jugaad or keeping excess spares, hardly ideal!
Amazing. And I believe you have detailed reports of every weapon failure and the solutions we come up with. Then please enlighten us with these issues.

I cant help it if you lack the most basic of comprehension. The Arjun is superior to the T-90 across the board. Overall, it has better firepower, better tactical mobility and better armour, not to mention better ergonomics and crew systems. That you don't know about this, despite ample spoonfeeding on my part, speaks for itself.
It is amazing how a simple question like "Prove it" is so hard for you to understand.

Is that the best you can come up with?

-Prove the Arjun is superior.
-Arjun is superior because blah blah blah is superior.

Seriously. WTF?

How about this;
The T-90 is superior to the Arjun across the board. Overall, it has better firepower, better tactical mobility and better armour, not to mention better ergonomics and crew systems.

Do you know what is the meaning of the term prove it? It is done by backing up a claim with either a source or logic. You obviously have neither except a big mouth with nothing to say.

Seriously prove it. Don't just talk about it. LOS sizes and dimensions of the Arjun is open to see, it is lesser than what's on the T-90.

Not to mention that being a teenaged net jockey, you didnt even know that the rounds I mentioned were all 1995 and thereafter (your genius had them at 1985), the Indian Armor does not have any Polish FCS (your silly claims notwithstanding).
Alright, I will give it to you that the IMI Mk2 is a newer round compared to the Mk1. But this does not prove it is superior to the BM42M. The BM42BM is meant for the T-90 and is a better round.

All you have to demo your lack of awareness is talk of trolling and embarassment. If you indeed had any shame whatsoever, you'd have found a bucket and dunked your head in it!
It is disappointing that all you have is trolling. Other than that all you have done is talk sh*t about T-90(without actually knowing anything about it), worship Arjun(without actually knowing anything about it) and then embarrass yourself(without knowing about it either). If dunking my head in a bucket of water would cure you of your need for trolling I would do it.
 

Archer

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So just stop this ridicoulus statements about absolut superiority.
For one so blindly using sarcasm, you seem to be clueless when used against your bizarre statements.

Yes and of course these agencies give You all their knowledge on tank designs, so You could design something comparabale to their designs that is cheaper and You will compete with them on wolrd market? :) You are not arrogant and ignorant, You are just naive. :)
Your bizarre statements speak for themselves, when you are not even aware that nobody gave India all their knowledge on tank designs, but collaborated with India for specific systems.
And they can clearly prevent India from competing with them on the world market by supplying systems for only Indian tanks for Indian Army...yes, I am not arrogant or ignorant, but nor am I naive. I do think however, that you are misinformed and somewhat clueless about the Arjun.
 

Godless-Kafir

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What?! A news paper as a good source?! Haha.



Ah that silly data table where Arjun that is heavier, have weaker engine and same suspension type is faster on roads than Leclerc... yeah riiight, and pink pigs are just flying high in to the sky!
What other source is there out there? The blogger is an Ex-Army man and he is a reporter now, he is very crtical when reporting of Indian equipment. When someone like him says you listen not haggle like you do. There is no more source than that, if you cant see that then be on your way, it does not mean anything to us if someone on the net does not believe for his own pride.

If this does not convince you then we cant take you and run the arjun over your toe! lol:laugh:
 
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Damian

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Your bizarre statements speak for themselves, when you are not even aware that nobody gave India all their knowledge on tank designs, but collaborated with India for specific systems.
And they can clearly prevent India from competing with them on the world market by supplying systems for only Indian tanks for Indian Army...yes, I am not arrogant or ignorant, but nor am I naive. I do think however, that you are misinformed and somewhat clueless about the Arjun.
So proove that Arjun is superior to T-90, proove it! Backup arguments with evidence and logic!
 

Archer

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Read my post again, You understand such thing like sarcasm?
If you are trying to be sarcastic, then that was a miserable failure at trying to be "friends" with a dead man. Next time try something better..

I can say the same, You think we don't have arms shows in Poland? So give me a proof that You were talking with Arjun developers.
Irrespective of how much "proof" we Indians provide, you Russian fans will remain willfully blind. And yeah, anyone who follows my posts on the Arjun would know I & several others have spoken to Arjun developers. Unlike you, whose chances in Poland of speaking to an Arjun developer are worse than you becoming chums with the ghost of Reagan.
 

Archer

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So proove that Arjun is superior to T-90, proove it! Backup arguments with evidence and logic!
Go read the links yourself, above yours. Enough spoonfeeding for the day already for you.
 

Damian

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What other source is there out there? The blogger is an Ex-Army man and he is a reporter now, he is very crtical when reporting of Indian equipment. When someone like him says you listen not haggle like you do. There is no more source than that, if you cant see that then be on your way, it does not mean anything to us if someone on the net does not believe for his own pride.
Source is something with proper data, proper support sources with bibliography, this is source.

If this does not convince you then we cant take you and run the arjun over your toe! lol:laugh:
OMG, this video is brilliant, I see good, Arjun thermal sight image? This is... 1980's technology! :D

And yeah, news agencies are so great sources! ;p
 

Godless-Kafir

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Source is something with proper data, proper support sources with bibliography, this is source.



OMG, this video is brilliant, I see good, Arjun thermal sight image? This is... 1980's technology! :D

And yeah, news agencies are so great sources! ;p
Please show me source that it is 1980s tech. Dont run away from your claim.

Here is the comparison.

 

Damian

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If you are trying to be sarcastic, then that was a miserable failure at trying to be "friends" with a dead man. Next time try something better..
Oh dear... You don't understand simple words, simple logic... how high is Your IQ? below 99?

Irrespective of how much "proof" we Indians provide, you Russian fans will remain willfully blind.
because there are no proofs, do You know the meaning of word proof?

And yeah, anyone who follows my posts on the Arjun would know I & several others have spoken to Arjun developers.
Proove it goddamnit, proove it!

Unlike you, whose chances in Poland of speaking to an Arjun developer are worse than you becoming chums with the ghost of Reagan.
I talk with a true moron...

Go read the links yourself, above yours. Enough spoonfeeding for the day already for you.
Links where there is table showing us that tank that is heavier, have weaker engine and same suspension type is faster on roads than lighter tank with stronger engine and same suspension type? Where is a logic? This is just impossible. :D
 

Damian

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Please show me source that it is 1980s tech. Dont run away from your claim.
because resolution is same as in Leopard 2 and a bit better from the old TIS. I have seen images from both types of thermal sights, it even seems that Arjun actually use main sight based on Leopard 2 sight, and Leopard 2 main sight wasn't changed from the start of production, so it is using technology from the 1980's up to this day.

Here is the comparison.
Yeah, and for example, how it is possible that turret traverse in azimuth in T-90 is mechanical, even if in reality it is electrohydraulic system? This is how good this source is.
 

Godless-Kafir

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Links where there is table showing us that tank that is heavier, have weaker engine and same suspension type is faster on roads than lighter tank with stronger engine and same suspension type? Where is a logic? This is just impossible. :D

Weaker engine? Same suspension? Stop trolling around here.. What suspension does the Arjun have?

Your bull shit just hit the fan. You do the work from now on, show us proof and tell us what suspension.
 

Damian

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P5200036.JPG

And this is what?

Arjun weight 58 tons, leclerc 54, Arjun use hydrogas suspension and Leclerc use hydrogas suspension, Arjun use 1400HP engine and Leclerc 1500HP, so explain me, how it is possible that Arjun can travel on roads 75 km/h and Leclerc only 71? :D

Weaker engine? Same suspension? Stop trolling around here.. What suspension does the Arjun have?

Your bull shit just hit the fan. You do the work from now on, show us proof and tell us what suspension.
My BS? This is Your sources not my. :D
 

Archer

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It's amazing how low you have stooped. In this entire charade you have not given one single bit of information that is actually related to anything we are discussing. Perhaps calling me a teenager satisfies your ego. But to me you are merely an embarrassment.
He he, when you were busy whining away talking of embarassment and trolls and what not, you had no qualms, eh? But when a couple of solid rejoinders are delivered out comes the petulance. But you are a whiny teenager, per your posts. And not I am stooping anyplace....its pretty clear to me that you are wilfully ignorant and have no access to any real world info....which is why you suck up to other fanboys peddling BS and try to make yourself appear informed. But you arent. Ergo teenager.

Amazing. And I believe you have detailed reports of every weapon failure and the solutions we come up with. Then please enlighten us with these issues.
Whats the point? So far you have not demo'ed an iota of introspection or spine..to even admit you have been coming up with googled rubbish on almost all topics you participate in. All you have to go on is "problems are resolved", yeah sure..

It is amazing how a simple question like "Prove it" is so hard for you to understand.
I already did in the previous thread...

Is that the best you can come up with?

-Prove the Arjun is superior.
-Arjun is superior because blah blah blah is superior.

Seriously. WTF?
I already did prove it. But you are in denial, still. It just shows exactly why I called you a teenager. An adult would introspect. You did not. You continue complaining..

How about this;
The T-90 is superior to the Arjun across the board. Overall, it has better firepower, better tactical mobility and better armour, not to mention better ergonomics and crew systems.

Do you know what is the meaning of the term prove it? It is done by backing up a claim with either a source or logic. You obviously have neither except a big mouth with nothing to say.

Seriously prove it. Don't just talk about it. LOS sizes and dimensions of the Arjun is open to see, it is lesser than what's on the T-90.
More rubbish on the last part. My dear kid, you have not even been close to a T-90 or Arjun, so please give it a rest about "logic" or "sources" or "LOS"....seriously....if anything showed that you have ZERO idea of the reality, it was this. The one thing the Arjun has always been admittedly better than the T-90 in, even per its worst critics is its armor....but no, open foot, insert mouth there..

Alright, I will give it to you that the IMI Mk2 is a newer round compared to the Mk1. But this does not prove it is superior to the BM42M. The BM42BM is meant for the T-90 and is a better round.
You dont have to "give me" anything, thanks very much. All I'll tell you -again - is that your super duper round fails versus its peers..

It is disappointing that all you have is trolling. Other than that all you have done is talk sh*t about T-90(without actually knowing anything about it), worship Arjun(without actually knowing anything about it) and then embarrass yourself(without knowing about it either). If dunking my head in a bucket of water would cure you of your need for trolling I would do it.
Kids like you when treated how they treat others whine about trolling...coming to talking sh*t...you are by far the biggest sh* talker on any forum. First grow up, learn something beyond k*ssing arse on forums with your fellow fanboys and go talk to people who actually use these things or make them, and you might learn something...but till you that, a potty mouthed teenager is what you are, and what you will remain.
 

p2prada

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Irrespective of how much "proof" we Indians provide, you Russian fans will remain willfully blind. And yeah, anyone who follows my posts on the Arjun would know I & several others have spoken to Arjun developers. Unlike you, whose chances in Poland of speaking to an Arjun developer are worse than you becoming chums with the ghost of Reagan.
You are doing everything except actually providing the "proof."

We aren't even asking for a source, just use simple logic. Give us math to work on, like gun's muzzle velocity and pressure. Give us the exact weight and dimensions of the shell, projectile and penetrator. Very simple for a man of extraordinary calibre such as yourself to provide. You are obviously in the know with the developers.

If you can give us the size and composition of armour on the Arjun on the turret and perhaps even the hull. Give us the quality of armour as well.

You see without these things you cannot prove the Arjun is superior to the T-90. Among both tanks, Arjun is an unknown quantity while the T-90 is not. It is very easy to compare the two if actual or even approximate figures are known.

But I see what your answer will be like. You will write a paragraph or two saying how I am a teenager, internet jockey in your words and how my head is in a bucket of water. Then you will insult a bunch of Polish guys who don't even give a fig about Russia. Then you will claim how great you are for another paragraph. Then, if we are really lucky, you will say you "don't know" the actual figures but that the guy you spoke to for 3 minutes in a stall(number 146) in the previous expo was positive the Arjun is superior.

Am I far from the mark?
 

Archer

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View attachment 4068

And this is what?

Arjun weight 58 tons, leclerc 54, Arjun use hydrogas suspension and Leclerc use hydrogas suspension, Arjun use 1400HP engine and Leclerc 1500HP, so explain me, how it is possible that Arjun can travel on roads 75 km/h and Leclerc only 71? :D



My BS? This is Your sources not my. :D
Has it even struck you that most tanks have governors to limit their road speed to what the user deems acceptable? Heck, this is a typical case of talking air without even looking at what the requirement was..
 

Damian

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Has it even struck you that most tanks have governors to limit their road speed to what the user deems acceptable? Heck, this is a typical case of talking air without even looking at what the requirement was..
Sure they have governors, but then again, how it is possible to Arjun, being heavier, with weaker engine and smaller power to weight ratio being faster than Leclerc? Arjun also use governor, so why French guys governed Leclerc even more? This have no logic.
 

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