Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

Agree, I'am tired to repeat my self on and on...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

first:


Im my opinnion there is no one LOS thickness thicker in Ajrun then Leopard2A4.
turret sides in Ajrun are not protected by "special armour". Photos was given. OK, I am not infallible but I have really experience in estimation of certain things.

Can you give my one sure measurement on Ajrun tower? Gun mantlet (mask) or something?

Arjun height is 2.32 metres (7 ft 7 in)..
Mantlet size = 114cm

 

[militarysta]

So if mantet is 114cm then these "bulges" have ~30-35cm, but:
turret sides in the area where the crew sits have only ~8-10cm.

Of course -the best idea will by, if You find Ajrun Mk.1 end measured it like on this Leo2A4 pohotos.
That would dispel all doubts.

BTW: mantle in Ajrun Mk.1 is. 114cm. It's therrible big. In Leopard2A4 You have 91cm, in other - less.

 

[Damian]

Not to mention weak spots between gun mantle mask and front armor.

 

[militarysta]

True...

I suppose that so big mantle in Ajrun (114cm + ~3 for each side) forced extension of the tower more than the normal size for tanks III gen.
In Western tank it's (mantle area) about 85 (M1A1) to 91cm (Leo2A4/A5) weak zone (mantle + area near it). In Ajrun we have ~120cm. So the diffrence is about ~30-35cm wasted space in Ajrun.


btw: in Ajrun it can be more then 120cm...

 

[Damian]

I do not see a reason for so much space inside turret, Arjun don't even have such huge digital systems package as M1A2SEP for example, so for what they need such huge space inside?

 

[militarysta]

The reason is wasted space for overgrown mantle. You have 35+ cm for...nothing?

EDIT: it means not only just +35cm wide mask, but: most wide turret, more space in, and out, more needed armour, etc.

 

[Damian]

What the hell they were thinking designing such turret? It is against logic and any tank desining rules!

Do I see it right? The mantle elements go inside front armor, not behind any thicker plates? You know I mean?

Chodzi o to że czopy wchodzą w przedni pancerz tuż przy jego zewnętrznym skraju zamiast za jakąś grubszą płytą.

 

[militarysta]

What the hell they were thinking designing such turret? It is against logic and any tank desining rules!

Damian, Ajrun is designed for 20years... perhaps accessible design solutions, including the fatal gun, forced such a solution.
Too big mantle you need more turret wight, more turret ight you need more armour, You need more armour - you must "save" armour in other sides - ex. turret sides. One result of the second, and it is connected. Limited access to technology forced such solutions.

It is certain that Ajrun II will be on now III gen MBT level becouse I will not be such restrictions on access to technology.

Do I see it right? The mantle elements go inside front armor, not behind any thicker plates? You know I mean?

Chodzi o to że czopy wchodzą w przedni tuż przy jego zewnętrznym skraju zamiast za jakąś grubszą płytą.

Yes. Simmilar to the T-72M1

 

[Blood+]

It seems two of the we have got two armchair generals here.Good,keep up your BS.Just wondering,how many times you two have been in the Arjun or the assembly plant to make such bs??

 

[Damian]

Damian, Ajrun is designed for 20years... perhaps accessible design solutions, including the fatal gun, forced such a solution.
Too big mantle you need more turret wight, more turret ight you need more armour, You need more armour - you must "save" armour in other sides - ex. turret sides. One result of the second, and it is connected. Limited access to technology forced such solutions.

It is certain that Ajrun II will be on now III gen MBT level becouse I will not be such restrictions on access to technology.

Even if there were technology transfer restrictions, designers should think even 10 times on design solutions before they made decisions.

Even without high tech foreing solutions, it is possible to at least properly design vehicle.

BTW I have a suspicion that such big mantle is effect of gun recoil system.

It seems two of the we have got two armchair generals here.Good,keep up your BS.Just wondering,how many times you two have been in the Arjun or the assembly plant to make such bs??

And any arguments backed up by logic and at least photographs analise?

Oh wait a second, I know Your type, a hurra optimistic "patriot" that is making more worse to his country than any enemy.

You know what is constructive criticism?

Thanks to constructive criticism in many nations designers were abale to improve their design or better design new weapon systems.

Besides this maybe You should read something about all MBT design all over the world, and their design solutions, how many problems were solved, what were strong and weak sides of different design solutions.

Maybe then You will not be so arogant and ignorant.

 

[Blood+]

Damian, Ajrun is designed for 20years... perhaps accessible design solutions, including the fatal gun, forced such a solution.
Too big mantle you need more turret wight, more turret ight you need more armour, You need more armour - you must "save" armour in other sides - ex. turret sides. One result of the second, and it is connected. Limited access to technology forced such solutions.

It is certain that Ajrun II will be on now III gen MBT level becouse I will not be such restrictions on access to technology.


Yes. Simmilar to the T-72M1

What do you mean by 'fatal gun'you jerk??And Arjun Mk1 is already a 3rd gen tank,get that into your dumb head silly man.

 

[Damian]

What do you mean by 'fatal gun'you jerk??And Arjun Mk1 is already a 3rd gen tank,get that into your dumb head silly man.

Any moderator here?

And yes, gun is fatal because it is outdated technology, 99,99% of all MBT's are using smoothbore guns.

Maybe read why they use smoothbore guns, how many types of ammunition, much more advanced than outdated HESH are used or designed for smoothbore guns.

And yes, Arjun is IIIrd generation MBT on their early 80's level, not on XXI century level. Educate Yourself kid... then maybe You will not look so stupid with You lack of arguments and only insults to people with different point of view than Your nationalistic BS.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

What do you mean by 'fatal gun'you jerk??And Arjun Mk1 is already a 3rd gen tank,get that into your dumb head silly man.

[hl]please avoid the use of such language on the forum.

thanks[/hl]

 

[plugwater]

Blood+ I have seen you posting before all you have done so far is abusing others. Last few pages have many valuable information if you cant contributing anything means dont post.

 

[Blood+]

Even if there were technology transfer restrictions, designers should think even 10 times on design solutions before they made decisions.

Even without high tech foreing solutions, it is possible to at least properly design vehicle.

BTW I have a suspicion that such big mantle is effect of gun recoil system.

And any arguments backed up by logic and at least photographs analise?

Oh wait a second, I know Your type, a hurra optimistic "patriot" that is making more worse to his country than any enemy.

You know what is constructive criticism?

Thanks to constructive criticism in many nations designers were abale to improve their design or better design new weapon systems.

Besides this maybe You should read something about all MBT design all over the world, and their design solutions, how many problems were solved, what were strong and weak sides of different design solutions.

Maybe then You will not be so arogant and ignorant.

I know about tank designes and I don't think I need to know anything .Have you designed a tank??No.So why should I care what bs you talk??

 

[Blood+]

Even if there were technology transfer restrictions, designers should think even 10 times on design solutions before they made decisions.

Even without high tech foreing solutions, it is possible to at least properly design vehicle.

BTW I have a suspicion that such big mantle is effect of gun recoil system.

And any arguments backed up by logic and at least photographs analise?

Oh wait a second, I know Your type, a hurra optimistic "patriot" that is making more worse to his country than any enemy.

You know what is constructive criticism?

Thanks to constructive criticism in many nations designers were abale to improve their design or better design new weapon systems.

Besides this maybe You should read something about all MBT design all over the world, and their design solutions, how many problems were solved, what were strong and weak sides of different design solutions.

Maybe then You will not be so arogant and ignorant.

I know about tank designes and I don't think I need to know anything from a dumb silly boy like you.Have you designed a tank??No.So why should I care what bs you talk??You are just bsiting from your mind,good,what else can be ewpected from an armchair general??. . .

 

[Damian]

Oh yes, I do not designed tank, but I'am educating my self about all tank designs, because I want to write about them, and I'm not hiding a fact that I'am not tank designers.

On the other hand I use arguments, I analise designs, I at least try to use proofs.

What are You using? Insults? Rage because someone have different opinion.

You are nothing more than a stupid teenager (mentaly, I don't care how old phisically You are).

Once again I ask moderators to do something with that person, he is doing nothing more than trolling.

I know about tank designes and I don't think I need to know anything from a dumb silly boy like you.

Yeah, we see Your "knowledge" everywhere oh allmighty!

 

[militarysta]

What do you mean by 'fatal gun'you jerk??And Arjun Mk1 is already a 3rd gen tank,get that into your dumb head silly man.

Every nationalism is the same ... "My tank is the best of the world becouse is from my country". And if the facts do not confirm, such thinking - the worse for the facts.

Ajrun Mk.I is first home-made Indian Tank. It's far, far, from perfect. But it is not surprising - during the design there were not so many available solutions.

The same about polish PT-91 and PT-91MZ. First is like T-72B second - (except armor) closer to the T-90S.
The same tank, 10 years difference between them.

 

[Blood+]

Any moderator here?

And yes, gun is fatal because it is outdated technology, 99,99% of all MBT's are using smoothbore guns.

Maybe read why they use smoothbore guns, how many types of ammunition, much more advanced than outdated HESH are used or designed for smoothbore guns.

And yes, Arjun is IIIrd generation MBT on their early 80's level, not on XXI century level. Educate Yourself kid... then maybe You will not look so stupid with You lack of arguments and only insults to people with different point of view than Your nationalistic BS.

It seems I was right,I am indeed talking to a 10 year old silly kid.Ok,listen kiddo,the ARDE L/52 gun has a mussel velocity of 1700meter/sec at only 600 mpa bore pressure though the gun can withstand 900 mpa.So it is slightly inferior to the Rheinmettal L/55 smoothbore which has a mussel velocity of 1750 meter/sec.Besides, Arjun uses FSAPDS T rounds and not HESH rounds in anti tank role.The specs:
round weight-22 kg
rod weight-8 kg
round length-990mm.This comparable to most modern FSAPDS T rounds(offcourse except the Rheinmettal DM 63).
First get your facts clear kiddo and then we can have a conversation.