Know Your 'Rafale'

johnj

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Don't underestimate the power of greed.
Already the strength of greed is so overpowering that they are willing to risk combat readiness vs the ching just so that they can force Gobi's hand to get the imports of choice.
And i'm not talking about Rafale, perhaps they want F16s in place of Tejas or whatever.

ofc with UPA coming it's game over, they'll shutdown the Tejas production and have us buy 100 F16s from their godfather US.
In Israel the jews had to cancel the development of their indigenous fighter IAI Lavi in place of F16s from US, in the end the IAI Lavi design and prototypes were sold to China and that is today the J-10 fighter.
In the case of Israel, its not only about F16 but also free aid, they are getting billions $ pa
In the case of IAF, its mki which is causing the trouble, engine issues, high maintenance, less availability rate, availability rate fall during wartime rapidly, two pilots etc and IAF need MMRCA to counter all these short comings. IAF need around 450 brand new ac in which IAF need around 300 mmrca including 36 rafale and mwf lca mk2. The main issue with lca pgrm was it development started without any foresight, which result in developing a non combat supersonic jet, which lacks firepower till 2019, and after 2019 its started getting weapons and advanced sensor thanks to Israel. In simple, development of lca pgrm, which started in 1980 may complete in 2032+ when LCA f414 completes weapons trials, weapons include gun, astra1, astra2, SANT, sfdr, ARM, ALCM, standoff weapons etc
Till then GoI order 26 RafaleM and 36 rafale F4+18 rafale
In the case of F16, IAF never support buying US jets except F35, maybe they consider 60 f15 if the deal also include 60 f35, if not consider aerial tanker & AWACS from US, if UPA wins, also UPA may reconsider eft
No foreign fighter is going to steal lca orders, IAF end up buying 250 ,mk1/mk2 or more
 

WolfPack86

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Dassault Aviation’s Rafale joint venture with Anil Ambani likely to be dissolved
NEW DELHI: The Indo-French joint venture (JV) between Dassault Aviation and Anil Ambani-owned Reliance Aerostructure Ltd is likely to be dissolved as the French company has reportedly decided to pull out of the JV — Dassault Reliance Aerostructure Ltd (DRAL).




Sources said Dassault has taken the decision due to Ambani’s “inability to make the investment required to keep the joint venture going”. Ambani is the major partner in the 51-49 JV. The two companies had entered into the joint venture to handle the offset obligations arising out of India’s USD 7.6 billion deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets. The JV was formed in 2017.

With Prime Minister Narendra Modi scheduled to visit France to be the guest of honour on Bastille Day on July 14, where he is likely to announce another multi-billion dollar deal to buy 26 Rafale Marine fighters, Dassault has started looking for a new Indian partner to execute its present and future offset obligations.

DRAL, having its production facility at a 62-acre plot in the MIHAAN Special Economic Zone in Nagpur, is currently engaged in the assembly of Rafale components, including engine doors, rudder, elevons, windshields, canopy, etc.

Sources said the fate of Reliance Aerostructure’s tie-up with another French company, Thales, is not yet clear. Ambani’s company has another 51-49 JV with Thales — Thales Reliance Defence Systems (TRDS) — in which Reliance is a major partner. TRDS is said to be the most advanced Thales facility outside France. This, too, operates out of MIHAAN and produces Rafale components.

The Centre had introduced a defence offset policy in 2005 which requires all foreign vendors to invest a part of the contract value in India so as to help domestic defence companies grow and facilitate the transfer of technology, besides generating employment.

Firms defaulting on offset obligations

A large number of top foreign defence companies have defaulted on their offset obligations. Repeated requests by the defence ministry to these vendors to fulfil their obligations have fallen on deaf ears.
 

WolfPack86

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Dassault Aviation and Tata could come together to prepare future Franco-Indian cooperation
While the failure of the MRCA program in 2014 was largely linked to Dassault Aviation's obligation to collaborate with the state aircraft manufacturer HAL for the manufacture of 96 of the 114 Rafale B/C to join the Indian Air Force, the decision of the French aeronautical group to turn to the Indian industrial group Reliance to create the industrial joint venture in order to carry out the offsets linked to the he acquisition of the 36 aircraft ordered by New Delhi in 2016 was harshly criticized by the press and the Indian opposition, and at the heart of the suspicions of corruption having been brought against the French aircraft manufacturer.

Although cleared of these accusations with strong electoral connotations for several years now, Dassault's choice of Reliance as a partner for its Indian industrial establishment remains a handicap to enable it to move forward.

While Emmanuel Macron and Narendra Modi announced, on the occasion of the latter's visit to Paris for the July 14 festivities and on the sidelines ofan upcoming order for 26 Rafale M and 3 scorpene submarines for the Indian Navy, the intensification of Franco-Indian cooperation, in particular with the future design of a mysterious "air combat system", so it was necessary for Dassault to solve this problem.

It will be done soon, it seems. In effect, according to idrw.org, often well-informed and exempt from the frequent excesses of the Indian press, Dassault Aviation would have ended the Joint-Venture with Reliance, and could approach, in substitution, the Indian industrial group Tata, so as to present a much smoother surface possible criticism from the Indian opposition, while preventing a recurrence of the HAL episode.

This will initially involve taking over the industrial activity currently based in India, which produces components for Falcon and Rafale aircraft in the Mihan Special Economic Zone in Nagpur, in the state of Maharashtra.

Above all, this Joint-Venture in the making will allow Dassault to structure future cooperation, whether it is the future air combat system mentioned by the two leaders a few days ago, and which could refer either to the AMCA program of the Indian Air Force, or to the TEDBF of the Indian Navy, but also to strengthen the French proposal around the Rafale F4/F5 concerning the MMRCA 2 program.

Paradoxically, Tata is already engaged in this competition with Lockheed-martin which offers the F-21, a version of the F-16 Block 70 adapted to the initial needs of the Indian Air Force and renowned for not being hampered by the pre- existing F-16 co-production agreements signed with Greece and the Netherlands.

The fact that Dassault Aviation and Tata are coming to collaborate, suggests that the Rafale could now act as favorites in this competition, while the F-21 like the Gripen E/F, lighter and single-engine, would now be out of the race. and that, faced with the significant reduction in the number of its squadrons, the Indian Air Force now favors heavier aircraft, with longer reach and greater payload capacity.

Whether or not it is a question of anticipating the MMRCA 2 program, the merger between Dassault Aviation and Tata marks, in any case, a first step in the reorganization of the French defense industrial presence in India, and demonstrates that the commitments made by Emmanuel Macron and Narendra Modi on July 14 will have applications in the relatively short term.

It is, in fact, a profound upheaval at work in terms of industrial defense doctrine for France which, for the first time, seems to be committed to a non-European player in this field, such as for India, which has hitherto favored the Russian defense industry for this type of medium- and long-term strategic cooperation.

One can, in this respect, wonder about the possibility, for New Delhi, of considering a shift towards France rather than towards the United States, so as to overcome the Russian failures noted in recent months in many industrial fields. defence, but also to preserve a neutral position by limiting dependence on the United States, without however turning to China, with which there are many areas of tension.
 

spacemarine2023

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All indians always underestimate how it cost to master such a high tech.
It is why no deal was inked with GE, RR, Safran despite years of negociations...
USA<GE> shared TurboFan tech with French in-late 80s… the core can take temperature near to 1700 degrees…
French latest TurboFans still operate on almost same temperature you guys were not able to iterate a bit on what was handed over to you..
USA has moved past 1800 and now building adaptive cycle engines…
You guys didn’t invest shit or were not capable to improve..
Kaveri core reaches 1600 already so IMHO I am doubtful any offset deal will lead to fruition for high thrust engines with French..
 

BON PLAN

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BON PLAN

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same tech ended up in ur TurboFans… USA shared tech as you both nations are malechas.. basically same culture
NO, NO and NO.
We even don't use the same single crystal blade factory ! And the hot core whole technology is linked to the blades.
 

spacemarine2023

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NO, NO and NO.
We even don't use the same single crystal blade factory ! And the hot core whole technology is linked to the blades.
single crystal blade technology is based on same principle that is a single molecule… even if two parties don’t collaborate with each other a single molecule will be created with same universal principles…
Its alright no issue accepting the facts.. its alright French USA UK you all are same malecha civilisation its alright if you guys share the same source as USA who has more resources than tiny Euro states..
France has done well thats why India is dependent on France for Fighters and SSKs
 

WolfPack86

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Dassault Aviation ‘seeks to buy out Reliance stake’ in defence facility, set up 100% venture in India
New Delhi: French aviation major Dassault Aviation is looking at buying out the stake of Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence in their joint venture Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL), which operates a plant in Nagpur, ThePrint has learnt.

According to industry sources aware of the matter, the French firm has already initiated talks with Reliance Defence over buying the stake, since further expansion of the plant is on hold owing to the inability to infuse more money into the project.

While the French firm owns a 49 percent stake in the joint venture, 51 percent is held by Reliance Defence.
Dassault and Reliance announced their joint venture and the creation of DRAL on 3 October 2016, barely two weeks after India signed a 7.878 billion-euro deal for 36 Rafale jets in a flyaway condition.

The joint venture had initially planned to recruit and train 650 employees by 2022, with the eventual aim being the rollout of a complete Falcon business jet from Nagpur. However, the plans are in disarray because of reported financial trouble Anil Ambani is facing.

Sources said, since India allows 100 percent foreign direct investment (FDI) on a case-to-case basis, Dassault Aviation is hoping that clearances would come in. It is learnt that, while Dassault Aviation was initially scouting for another possible Indian partner, it has decided to go alone.

The Nagpur plant
The DRAL facility in the MIHAN Special Economic Zone in Nagpur was building components for the Rafale fighters, like engine doors, canopy, etc., but the activity has slowed down, according to sources.

The facility was originally meant for making components for Falcon jets and not for the Rafale jets. But in June 2019, ThePrint reported that Dassault Aviation is likely to start manufacturing components of the Rafale fighter jets at its India facility, with the wares destined for global customers.

The facility came up as part of the offset obligations in the 2016 Rafale deal under which 50 percent of the value of the contract had to be ploughed back into India.

According to sources, Dassault Aviation will also like to set up a manufacturing facility for Rafale in India if it bags the contract to build 114 fighters for the Indian Air Force.

While IAF operates 36 Rafale, it is also looking at issuing a tender for 114 new fighters due to depleting strength.

The 36 were bought for an emergency, to arrest the steep decline in numbers for the Indian Air Force (IAF), which has a sanctioned strength of 42 Squadrons but currently has only 31, including those of the ageing MiG 21s and Jaguar besides the MiG 29 — all of which will be decommissioned by 2029-30.

The government has decided to go in for the purchase of 26 naval versions called the Rafale M. While it has larger ‘Make in India’ components than the IAF one — all of which will be manufactured at the Nagpur facility — the numbers are too small for any larger indigenous development programme.
 

BON PLAN

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single crystal blade technology is based on same principle that is a single molecule… even if two parties don’t collaborate with each other a single molecule will be created with same universal principles…
Its alright no issue accepting the facts.. its alright French USA UK you all are same malecha civilisation its alright if you guys share the same source as USA who has more resources than tiny Euro states..
France has done well thats why India is dependent on France for Fighters and SSKs
Once again no.
The principles are the same, but the industrial facility are not the same. A GE crystal blade can't be produced in a Safran plant, so is the contrary.
We never had know how from USA. They delivered us some complete engines (ex Pratt & Whitney JTF10 for Mirage III V prorotyp, or F404 for Rafale prototyp), but that's all.
The main effort we had came from the german scientists POW in the 1945-1950 years.
 

spacemarine2023

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Once again no.
The principles are the same, but the industrial facility are not the same. A GE crystal blade can't be produced in a Safran plant, so is the contrary.
We never had know how from USA. They delivered us some complete engines (ex Pratt & Whitney JTF10 for Mirage III V prorotyp, or F404 for Rafale prototyp), but that's all.
The main effort we had came from the german scientists POW in the 1945-1950 years.
GE on behest of cold war provided Turbo Fan tech to French… 100% TOT a well know fact…
French has obviously improved doing regressions but no where close to Americans who are now moving to adaptive cycle engines which require much more mature tech.
Thats why I have posted earlier even if one gets full TOT metallurgy is a science which requires so many combinations on differing variables to achieve continuation in progress … requires 100s of billions of $$$ which France cant and neither India for now..
Adaptive cycle engines will be the king of Jewel technologies in coming decades and they will be solely based on the military requirements where France and other Euro nations will lag unless they form a union..
Civilian Turbo Fans dont require adaptive cycles because they dont need to vary their thrusts
 

WolfPack86

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TATA के साथ भारत मे Rafale का Production Start करेगी Dassult - Rafale Production in India
 

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