Know Your 'Rafale'

Immanuel

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1976 test....

It's like it was impossible for a french basket team to win against the US dream team.
UNTIL YESTERDAY :pound::laugh::pound:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eustaciahuen/2019/03/25/wine-3/

Finally it's the consumer who decides which is the best even in this modern era.

1st, Best wine on Vivino's list for 2018, seems far from France. Top 5 were from all across the world.

Stop spewing nonsense, French wine is no longer a monopoly.
 

BON PLAN

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Immanuel

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Do you have any data saying there will be more orders of F-16? When she is highest produced aircraft after Mig-21 spares are not a issue . Most of the nato allys are moving to 5th generation F-35. And there is no data available that tata - lm manufactured F-16 will be cheaper than American one.
F-16 is most expensive shit in mmrca 2.0 Costing whooping 24 billion.
GOI of india wants develop new strategic relationship with france.
Taking GOI behavior I'm pretty sure that jet will be rejected in test flight modules also iaf was not impressed by that flying duck.
Gets some facts.
France is also doing offsets which worth billions.
Shakti engine of HAL which powers 90% of our helicopters is build with collaboration with france.
RUSSIA is offering mig-35 with full tot.
The point was that guy was saying US will share its tot but the reality is they cannot even share anything. COMCASA, it purportedly allows India to procure specialised equipment for encrypted communication for US origin military platforms like C-17, C-130 and P-81s. The question is isn’t the vender expected to provide reliable communication equipment as per specifications if so demanded and contracted for? With India wanting to promote ‘Make in India’ andone of its major Public Sector Enterprise involved in manufacturing high technology communication equipment, what is wrong in procuring commercially available communication systems specially tailored to meet our requirements in these platforms? Communication interoperability between the militaries of India and US is redundant and undoubtedly compromises India’s communication security.

Despite these implications India signed these fundamental agreements signaling a very close partnership with the US startling the world. Has US shown any understanding of these compromises in its dealings with India?
https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/us-moves-ahead-with-8-billion-f-16-fighter-jets-sale-to-taiwan/

I am not advocating for the F-16 for India, but Taiwan is looking to get 66 Block 70s, order book is still open and more will come. Before any line ever closes the US would have sold another 200 brand new aircraft. These will be maintained and operated for another 40 years. I am only stating that a 70's era aircraft will continue to compete with the likes of Rafale, EF, Gripen for atleast another decade and older operators of the F-16 will more or less switch to F-35.

It is also absolutely hilarious to see even the F-15 still selling strong in this day and age.

What France does and what US does when it comes to MIC, they are no where in the same league.

RFP for MRCA 2.0 hasn't gone out yet, so your price estimate for the F-16 is way off. Not that the IAF would take it anyways. IAF should drop the MRCA 2.0, stop wasting time and just order another 3-5 squadrons of the Rafale and get it over with.

COMCASA allows us to have US encrypted comms and other goodies but I am perfectly happy using our own IFF, datalinks, comms, encryption etc on platforms.

COMCASA is more a platform for intel sharing and it already allows for instant sharing of data with the US both outgoing and incoming.

Even if some COMCASA equipment goes on the new P-8I and other platforms it will beneficial for us. You are being silly if you think it hasn't been debated to the core in all 3 services for almost a decade and several older versions where ripped up till we found the right balance of give and take. COMCASA is essentially a decent compromise from the US since the standard CISMOA they sign with other nations are far more intrusive. In COMCASA we get to choose if we would like to have such gear at platform level or at command level. I believe IAF, IN, IA will continue to use home made IFFs, EW suites, Comms, Datalinks etc at platform level while using COMCASA kit at Command Centers this way our movements are kept secret while we receive real time inputs from the US which will then be shared with our units deployed.

Also your view that US is an unreliable partner isn't shared by the services who have increasingly bought from the US and many more will come. The services know that the civilian Govt. is more than able to iron out any differences through direct dialogue.
 

Immanuel

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the 2nd and 4th are french. 10 of these 30 are french.

33% just for France.... You are right : french wines are out :daru:
Yes while a good 66% is for the rest of the world. Keep importing more immigrants and this culture will slowly die out in a couple of decades. Trump tariffs would kill another 10-20% of smaller producers. Number 1 is still Californian. Also, those 10 are over-priced for what they are, which means Italians, Californians, Portugese produce just as good wines for a lower price. Which means the French need to work on their price quality.
 

Immanuel

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French wine commands a far higher price than those from California. People who buy it are not going to be phased by a tariff. Regardless of your personal opinion of French wine, the market has determined it is the best.
Going by the top ten list, they seem to be over priced for where they stand in the top 30 list. Which means I could have the best wine in the world for 5 times less price, perhaps the French need to work on their price quality ratio.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eustaciahuen/2019/03/25/wine-3/

Perhaps Dassault team should throw in a case of 'Petrus' as a gift, now that is a sublime wine, magic in a sip
 

Assassin 2.0

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https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/us-moves-ahead-with-8-billion-f-16-fighter-jets-sale-to-taiwan/

I am not advocating for the F-16 for India, but Taiwan is looking to get 66 Block 70s, order book is still open and more will come. Before any line ever closes the US would have sold another 200 brand new aircraft. These will be maintained and operated for another 40 years. I am only stating that a 70's era aircraft will continue to compete with the likes of Rafale, EF, Gripen for atleast another decade and older operators of the F-16 will more or less switch to F-35.

It is also absolutely hilarious to see even the F-15 still selling strong in this day and age.

What France does and what US does when it comes to MIC, they are no where in the same league.

RFP for MRCA 2.0 hasn't gone out yet, so your price estimate for the F-16 is way off. Not that the IAF would take it anyways. IAF should drop the MRCA 2.0, stop wasting time and just order another 3-5 squadrons of the Rafale and get it over with.

COMCASA allows us to have US encrypted comms and other goodies but I am perfectly happy using our own IFF, datalinks, comms, encryption etc on platforms.

COMCASA is more a platform for intel sharing and it already allows for instant sharing of data with the US both outgoing and incoming.

Even if some COMCASA equipment goes on the new P-8I and other platforms it will beneficial for us. You are being silly if you think it hasn't been debated to the core in all 3 services for almost a decade and several older versions where ripped up till we found the right balance of give and take. COMCASA is essentially a decent compromise from the US since the standard CISMOA they sign with other nations are far more intrusive. In COMCASA we get to choose if we would like to have such gear at platform level or at command level. I believe IAF, IN, IA will continue to use home made IFFs, EW suites, Comms, Datalinks etc at platform level while using COMCASA kit at Command Centers this way our movements are kept secret while we receive real time inputs from the US which will then be shared with our units deployed.

Also your view that US is an unreliable partner isn't shared by the services who have increasingly bought from the US and many more will come. The services know that the civilian Govt. is more than able to iron out any differences through direct dialogue.
I'm talking on facts. If you will go back serval pages you will find total flaws in this F-21. It's only Taiwan who is getting this F-16 because Americans cannot sell there F-35 to them. Poland to Australia everyone is buying F-35.
US is not a reliable ally because of certain issue's and that's the reason why indian government is making itself much closer to france to replace Russia. And is still working with Russia buying s-400 and giving credit to them.
Us is a great ally lamo how many times trump fucked our stand on Kashmir issue for his pathetic tiny gains in Afghanistan? Or recently updated all Pakistani F-16 and to increase there operational ready ness.

If comcasa was so good why indian government took so much hmmmmms yesss to sign it and delayed it??
Certainly they wanted us weapons without it.

US will not supply india there best weapons cost is terribly high. They doesn't want to share tot
Russia still helped india in nuclear subs bhramos and many more things Ak-203
FRENCH are working in project 75.

I'm not a fan boy of any particular country but indian policy doesn't consider US as it's all time ally your comments are build and focused on what you think what should be done. What I'm saying the work which government is doing . That's why GOI is working with france

Us is a superpower they have multiple interests if you think they will be ever pro india then you need to wake Up

Rejected F-21 is also such kind of move. India still doesn't want to depend on US to much.

US is known for it's backstabbing policies i think this whole American interference is not a surprise to our diplomats because of the following reasons.

move which was nothing more than symbolism, US rechristened its ‘Pacific Command’, the ‘US Indo-Pacific Command’, underscoring the growing importance of India in US’ scheme of things but chose to repeatedly delay the much touted 2+2 dialogue. The meetings was scheduled for April 2018 between the Defence and the Foreign Ministers of India and US and address the growing differences over the Iran Nuclear Deal and the brewing tariff war between the two countries.
The postponements were seen as a sign of growing attenuation of US’ interest in India relations and Trump’s move back to US’ erstwhile AfPak centric South Asia Policy resulting in US moving closer to Pakistan at the cost of India relations.

*March 2018, US announced a 25 percent tariff on imported steel and a 10 percent tariff on imported aluminum that hurt India. US granted exemption to Argentina, European Union, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Mexico and S Korea but chose not to accede to India’s request for relief.

*After putting India on notice of its intent to terminate the country’s designation as a ‘beneficiary developing nation’ under the key Generalised System of Preference (GSP) trade programme on March 04 2019, US Administration withdrew GSP benefits to India with effect from June 05, 2019. During the meetings after India was put on notice, US had demanded that India allow imports of agriculture, milk, and poultry products from US. Obviously US chose to ignore India’s domestic interests

Chinese threat to India’s Northern borders and Indian Ocean besides China-Pakistan nexus are often cited as the reason why India needs to enter into a military alliance with US. Will US which till today has not even supported India’s claims against either Pakistan or China militarily intervene or fight alongside India’s military? US remaining silent during Doklam standoff is an eye opener

*Maintaining freedom of navigation in the Indian Ocean and open airspace in the Indian Ocean region is a matter of interest to all the countries of the world which use these medium for transportation and not India’s alone. India becoming a US proxy in its efforts to contain China is not in the larger interests of the country. India’s emphasis under these circumstances lies in strengthening its economy, internal coherence and building military capacity. India will do well to maintain balance in it relations with the major powers.
 
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BON PLAN

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Yes while a good 66% is for the rest of the world. Keep importing more immigrants and this culture will slowly die out in a couple of decades. Trump tariffs would kill another 10-20% of smaller producers. Number 1 is still Californian. Also, those 10 are over-priced for what they are, which means Italians, Californians, Portugese produce just as good wines for a lower price. Which means the French need to work on their price quality.
:hippo: .
 

BON PLAN

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Going by the top ten list, they seem to be over priced for where they stand in the top 30 list. Which means I could have the best wine in the world for 5 times less price, perhaps the French need to work on their price quality ratio.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eustaciahuen/2019/03/25/wine-3/

Perhaps Dassault team should throw in a case of 'Petrus' as a gift, now that is a sublime wine, magic in a sip
2nd of this list (there are so many lists....) is 84$. 1st is 245$.... and once again, 3 of the 10 are french....
 

IndianHawk

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https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/us-moves-ahead-with-8-billion-f-16-fighter-jets-sale-to-taiwan/

I am not advocating for the F-16 for India, but Taiwan is looking to get 66 Block 70s, order book is still open and more will come. Before any line ever closes the US would have sold another 200 brand new aircraft. These will be maintained and operated for another 40 years. I am only stating that a 70's era aircraft will continue to compete with the likes of Rafale, EF, Gripen for atleast another decade and older operators of the F-16 will more or less switch to F-35.

It is also absolutely hilarious to see even the F-15 still selling strong in this day and age.

What France does and what US does when it comes to MIC, they are no where in the same league.

RFP for MRCA 2.0 hasn't gone out yet, so your price estimate for the F-16 is way off. Not that the IAF would take it anyways. IAF should drop the MRCA 2.0, stop wasting time and just order another 3-5 squadrons of the Rafale and get it over with.

COMCASA allows us to have US encrypted comms and other goodies but I am perfectly happy using our own IFF, datalinks, comms, encryption etc on platforms.

COMCASA is more a platform for intel sharing and it already allows for instant sharing of data with the US both outgoing and incoming.

Even if some COMCASA equipment goes on the new P-8I and other platforms it will beneficial for us. You are being silly if you think it hasn't been debated to the core in all 3 services for almost a decade and several older versions where ripped up till we found the right balance of give and take. COMCASA is essentially a decent compromise from the US since the standard CISMOA they sign with other nations are far more intrusive. In COMCASA we get to choose if we would like to have such gear at platform level or at command level. I believe IAF, IN, IA will continue to use home made IFFs, EW suites, Comms, Datalinks etc at platform level while using COMCASA kit at Command Centers this way our movements are kept secret while we receive real time inputs from the US which will then be shared with our units deployed.

Also your view that US is an unreliable partner isn't shared by the services who have increasingly bought from the US and many more will come. The services know that the civilian Govt. is more than able to iron out any differences through direct dialogue.
There is a difference in what forces are buying from USA and what not.

Mostly defensive systems are being bought from USA. Including transport , anti submarine warfare, surveillance drone. Etc.

Frontline offensive stuff we can not get caught into USA web of inspection and permission so fighter jets , submarine , Sam missile , AWACS etc will come from France , Russia , israel.

Now naval f18 could still be bought because aircraft carriers and and naval fighters will be deterrent against China and won't be used against porkistan.

Still there are clear lines which USA doesn't have access now. Same for India USA is not selling us either f35 or nuke tech for subs .

Mutual trust is not there beyond tactical weaponry and support systems.
For example USA won't allow us to use f16 for nuke delivery which rafale is ready for and so are su30.

Btw f16 is the competition for mwf which will provide 90 % of f16 capabilities in more compact and advanced ( composite ) airframe . And it will be all indegenios.
 

Armand2REP

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Not necessarily, French do have wide set of price ranges for Wines from cheap to uber expensive, while premium wines will not be impacted much with tarriffs, but the average bottle that costs under 10 bucks will be hit hard.
What French wines sell for under $10 a bottle? Those are mostly California wines that taste like someone pissed in the barrel.
 

Armand2REP

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I'm wondering if Rafael could fly on French wine. Accordingly, F22 on Cal. wine?
Apparently so as it was Rafale that defeated F-22 several times in DACTs despite their pilots lying about the results to the media. If Russians can run everything on vodka anything is possible.
 

asianobserve

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French wine commands a far higher price than those from California. People who buy it are not going to be phased by a tariff. Regardless of your personal opinion of French wine, the market has determined it is the best.
Remember the "Judgment of Paris"? A blind testing of top French and American wines by French judges?

This is the result:
1. Chateau Montelena 1973
USA
2. Meursault Charmes Roulot 1973
France
3. Chalone Vineyard 1974
USA
4. Spring Mountain Vineyard 1973
USA
5. Beaune Clos des Mouches Joseph Drouhin 1973
France
 

Immanuel

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@Immanuel

=> decanter world wine awards
http://awards.decanter.com/DWWA/201...1910.69338236.1568281482-985493464.1568281482

17000 wines tested.

7 in the best 25 (all with the max 98/100) are french. No US product..... :rofl:
Decanter has Judges, I prefer results from the main consumers (Vivino has 35 million plus users and over 10 million wines listed), not some judgement passed by old white men.


What French wines sell for under $10 a bottle? Those are mostly California wines that taste like someone pissed in the barrel.
A simple google search would result in a lot of knowledge, seems like your dumb ass has never shopped on line. Heck it is easy even to find French wine for €5-6 or $8-12 in most major super markets.

Anyways let's take this to another thread bitches
 

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