Know Your 'Rafale'

[asianobserve]

we loose against germany in 1940. The great America loose against Vietnam : 1- 1 ball in the center.

LOL! You lost against Vietnam first (before America took over and lost too), then you lost against Algeria. So how many is that 1 vs 3? Count more.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Let's pretend India is the superpower znd msin manufzcturer of F-35 (let's call it AMCA). And Turkey is supposed to be your long time ally until crazy Erdogan came out. Now, suppose Turkey all of a sudden say it will buy Chinese SAM and bring in Chinese technicians to Turkish air bases, what would you do? Would you still supply Turkey with F-35s knowing that Chinese radars under Turkey and Chinese technicians can regularly observe the electronic/radar profile of Turkish F-35?

No is claiming here India to be a inta galactica supa powa. It just has something it doesn't need to purchase from elsewhere.

And all your and your massa's antagonistic rants or just because Indians are rejecting American material on an internet forum.

Shout loud & loud things won't change! US gives the worst deals to India and that's why India goes for American only when no other option is left.
India will take the deal if it's beneficial and reliability of vendor is a great factor in decision making.

No matter what you shout to defend your star sprangled banner! If got it, you may better leave. Rafael deal is done, India won't buy F-16 & F-21, US won't give F-22/F-35 tech to India, it's for slaves like ROK, Japan & Philippines (if could afford).
Case closed.

 

[tarunraju]

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[Deathstar]

Let's pretend India is the superpower znd msin manufzcturer of F-35 (let's call it AMCA). And Turkey is supposed to be your long time ally until crazy Erdogan came out. Now, suppose Turkey all of a sudden say it will buy Chinese SAM and bring in Chinese technicians to Turkish air bases, what would you do? Would you still supply Turkey with F-35s knowing that Chinese radars under Turkey and Chinese technicians can regularly observe the electronic/radar profile of Turkish F-35?

Calm down with your sarcasm first.
Turks had asked for Patriot missile system with ToT which the US had rejected ,hence the Turks went with S400.

 

[asianobserve]

Calm down with your sarcasm first.
Turks had asked for Patriot missile system with ToT which the US had rejected ,hence the Turks went with S400.

Why would the US give Patriot tech to Turkey, especially with crazy Sultan Erdogan there? The US has no obligation to give its prized weapons tech to anyone even its allies. And India would be a fool if it will give away the full tech of Brahmos to Vietnam for example (and Vietnam can manufacture and sell its own Brahmos cheaper and compete with India).

It's crazy to think any rational leader or country will do that.

 

[IndianHawk]

Why would the US give Patriot tech to Turkey, especially with crazy Sultan Erdogan there? The US has no obligation to give its prized weapons tech to anyone even its allies. And India would be a fool if it will give away the full tech of Brahmos to Vietnam for example (and Vietnam can manufacture and sell its own Brahmos cheaper and India already out of the loop).

It's crazy to think any rational leader or country will do that.

Exactly . Now stop pretending that USA tech will help Indian Industry in anyway. We are fine with purchasing outright whatever we need from USA. No industry development bullshit that wisemarco is paddling here. Glad you posted the truth unlike that idiot.

 

[Deathstar]

Why would the US give Patriot tech to Turkey, especially with crazy Sultan Erdogan there? The US has no obligation to give its prized weapons tech to anyone even its allies. And India would be a fool if it will give away the full tech of Brahmos to Vietnam for example (and Vietnam can manufacture and sell its own Brahmos cheaper and compete with India).

It's crazy to think any rational leader or country will do that.

So simple Turks decided to buy S400 cz Russians were glad to help. Thats what i have said US military system demands adherence to US interests and tantrums ,though they are best in the world

 

[IndianHawk]

So simple Turks decided to buy S400 cz Russians were glad to help. Thats what i have said US military system demands adherence to US interests and tantrums ,though they are best in the world

Not in this case . S400 blows patriot out of water.

Also if a NATO member turkey was willing to let go f35 to get s400 what that tell you about f35!

It's like India leaving fgfa. So many unanswered questions.

 

[asianobserve]

Exactly . Now stop pretending that USA tech will help Indian Industry in anyway. We are fine with purchasing outright whatever we need from USA. No industry development bullshit that wisemarco is paddling here. Glad you posted the truth unlike that idiot.

I did not say US will transfer sensitive military tech to India. No country will. But what the US gives is business opportunities and training to best manufacturing practices of high tech weapons or their subsystems.




Did Russia partially construct any of the fuselage or subsystems of any of the attack helicopters it uses in its service (Russian Army) or it sells to its clients?

I understand some Super Hornet subsystems are already being built in India even if India haven't ordered any Super Hornet yet.

Amd in commercial aviation India is supplying a lot of subsystems and parts to American companies.

In all these activities even if no sensitive tech is transferred to India but on the very least India is already benefiting from revenues and quality control knowledge.

Imagine if Lockheed Martin relocates its F-16 assembly plant to India. Again, even if no senditive tech is transferred to it by LM snd its subcontractors but the business potential and production knowledge potential is considerable. There will still be F-16 orders in the coming 15 or more years since not all countries are cleared or cam afford to buy F-35. India can also exert leverage on Pakistani F-16 fleet. Plus, F-16V is no slouch. It is infinitely better than Mig-29 or Mig-35 and will give Su-35 a good fight.

Again, has Russia or even France given this kind of industrisl benefits to India?

 

[IndianHawk]

I did not say US will transfer sensitive military tech to India. No country will. But what the US gives is business opportunities and training to best manufacturing practices of high tech weapons or their subsystems.




Did Russia partially construct any of the fuselage or subsystems of any of the attack helicopters it uses in its service (Russian Army) or it sells to its clients?

I understand some Super Hornet subsystems are already being built in India even if India haven't ordered any Super Hornet yet.

Amd in commercial aviation India is supplying a lot of subsystems and parts to American companies.

In all these activities even if no sensitive tech is transferred to India but on the very least India is already benefiting from revenues and quality control knowledge.

Imagine if Lockheed Martin relocates its F-16 assembly plant to India. Again, even if no senditive tech is transferred to it by LM snd its subcontractors but the business potential and production knowledge potential is considerable. There will still be F-16 orders in the coming 15 or more years since not all countries are cleared or cam afford to buy F-35. India can also exert leverage on Pakistani F-16 fleet. Plus, F-16V is no slouch. It is infinitely better than Mig-29 or Mig-35 and will give Su-35 a good fight.

Again, has Russia or even France given this kind of industrisl benefits to India?

Russian industrial benefits come in different forms . Russia has built many nuclear plants in India and have provide fuel when USA was busy sanctioning India. Russia supplied cryogenic engines while again USA blocked tot.
Russia assisted nuke submarine development and leased a nuke submarine which gave India operational experience of ssn. What did usa do?

Let USA lease India a nuke sub and then compare it with Russia. Russia send Indian astronaut to space. Russia gave more tot for su30 than any f16 buyer can even dream of getting.

Su30mki has Indian mission computer. Does turkey have Turkish mission computer in f16 ? Anybody else?

France is sourcing dassault falcon fuselage from India. Airbus has been sourcing components from India for a long time just like Boeing and LM because India makes quality components at cheap. Those have nothing to do with defense contacts .Indian civil aviation orders are large enough to force components manufacturing in India itself.

Regarding f16 its not better than mig 29 or 35 in aerodynamics. Avionics is better but far far behind that of rafale. And it competes with mwf which is also a single engine jet.

A better case is f18 if India were to buy American jets but they come with restrictions which neither Russia nor France impose.

And f16, 18 aren't some secret sauce for which we should tolerate restrictions . Both are inferior to eurocanards in almost every metric. They couldn't even make to second round of mmrca.

We have bought c17 and p8i let's and c130j total number of these jets are 11+17+ 22 ( including proposed 10 more p8) = 49 jets . Let's see how far buying 49 aircrafts + 40 helicopter (Apache and Chinook ) take us in there global supply chain?

 

[BON PLAN]

LOL! You lost against Vietnam first (before America took over and lost too), then you lost against Algeria. So how many is that 1 vs 3? Count more.

It was not Vietnam Bro. It was then Indochine.
In Algeria the military victory of France was acquired. We decided to stop for political reasons, because it was no more in the air to maintain colony. That's all.
So before discussing with adults, work on history and geography.
kisses and go to bed.

 

[asianobserve]

It was not Vietnam Bro. It was then Indochine.

The colonial mentality is showing. Well then, you lost French Indochina.

In Algeria the military victory of France was acquired. We decided to stop for political reasons, because it was no more in the air to maintain colony. That's all.
So before discussing with adults, work on history and geography.
kisses and go to bed.

America did not even lose a single battle in Vietnam yet it has to sue for "political solution" (euphemism for defeat). Sounds familiar? So please spare me tge read your history.

The French could have stopped Hitler in the Rhineland since France had vast military advantage over ragtag Nazis at the time. But I guess the French were busy eating cheese and making love to bother. So they give Hitler a moral victory and a political boost in Germany which started his transformation into Fuhrer.

The French again could have stopped Hitler from demanding for Sudetenland and then Czechoslovakia by calling Hitler's bluff and going to war to defend European (and World) peace. But the French and British cowered. French military power after Napoleon until now has been nothing but a downhill trajectory.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

The colonial mentality is showing. Well then, you lost French Indochina.



America did not even lose a single battle in Vietnam yet it has to sue for "political solution" (euphemism for defeat). Sounds familiar? So please spare me tge read your history.

The French could have stopped Hitler in the Rhineland since France had vast military advantage over ragtag Nazis at the time. But I guess the French were busy eating cheese and making love to bother. So they give Hitler a moral victory and a political boost in Germany which started his transformation into Fuhrer.

The French again could have stopped Hitler from demanding for Sudetenland and then Czechoslovakia by calling Hitler's bluff and going to war to defend European (and World) peace. But the French and British cowered. French military power after Napoleon until now has been nothing but a downhill trajectory.

I don't like when people talk shit and shit about france every time when considering france is a proud country. France is most powerful EU country. She is not a American lackey Like UK who cannot do anything without American approval. Some people live in past but glory and influence changes with time. France have independent policies the thing which matters today. the most. Lamo it's better we talk about nations which don't live under US rule are very very. Rare thing in Europe. After brexit British position in the world will decrease by many folds. Germany is getting old and is choosing to be a pacifist nation so who is the next leader of the European union. Well that's france. India case France showed the balls they were willing to veto for india when india did nuclear tests. Supplied arms in Kargil and supported india.
*France had independent policy for india that's why india and France have good relationship which is better than india-UK. Uk with which india had very close relationship. Uk-india relationship was doomed india doesn't do much of Defence deal with them because we know they will do what Americans ask them to do because they don't have independent policies.

 

[asianobserve]

I don't like when people talk shit and shit about france every time when considering france is a proud country. France is most powerful EU country. She is not a American lackey Like UK who cannot do anything without American approval. Some people live in past but glory and influence changes with time. France have independent policies the thing which matters today. the most. Lamo it's better we talk about nations which don't live under US rule are very very. After brexit British position in the world will decrease by many folds. Germany is getting old and is choosing to be a pacifist nation so who is the next leader of the European union. Well that's france.

Germany is actually the most powerful country in Europe right now. France is no more powerful than UK.

 

[asianobserve]

France is only a show off because there's no major war. But whenever there' s a major war or conflict that France has to face whwt's the first thing it do? Call Washington for SOS!

I hate show offs!

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Germany is actually the most powerful country in Europe right now. France is no more powerful than UK.

Yeah yeah.

Germany is actually the most powerful country in Europe right now. France is no more powerful than UK.

Germany doesn't have any military strength and is getting old there political influence on major issues is non existence . Yeah yeah UK is the most powerful after all they are 51st state of USA. France is the most proud country of EU for now they have there own weapons I'm pretty sure france is capable of fighting any war. Why india chose France to replace Russia is because of the military and political strength india know they can stand with us in difficult time this thing cannot be said for any other American ally. And for France having india as friend will also improve there influence on asia.

 

[ForigenSanghi]

Germany is actually the most powerful country in Europe right now. France is no more powerful than UK.

Lolz. Maybe if you told this to the Iranians, they wont have dared to seize the UK tankers. :biggrin2:

France is only a show off because there's no major war. But whenever there' s a major war or conflict that France has to face whwt's the first thing it do? Call Washington for SOS!

I hate show offs!

Are you high or something.

France has been bombing the feck out of northern and central Africa for two decades now, with impunity if I may add. It controls many govts in Africa like the US does in Europe and Middle East. All this while uk gets its marine and airspace violated by Russia every other week.

France (along with USA) has un-paralleled geo-strategic presence. It has a footprint on every darn continent. Uk does not have half that presence and Germany has literally nothing in comparison. With the loss of Diego Garcia and possibly the Malvinas, uk is going to turn into little england as the people on continent have called it for decades.

As for the German wealth derived at the expense of France and Italy since the formation of euro. It will have to be returned either through fiscal union or through bailouts.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Let's pretend India is the superpower znd msin manufzcturer of F-35 (let's call it AMCA). And Turkey is supposed to be your long time ally until crazy Erdogan came out. Now, suppose Turkey all of a sudden say it will buy Chinese SAM and bring in Chinese technicians to Turkish air bases, what would you do? Would you still supply Turkey with F-35s knowing that Chinese radars under Turkey and Chinese technicians can regularly observe the electronic/radar profile of Turkish F-35?

STAY ON TOPIC YOU MONGOLOIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[asianobserve]

Are you high or something.

France has been bombing the feck out of northern and central Africa for two decades now, with impunity if I may add. It controls many govts in Africa like the US does in Europe and Middle East.

France (along with USA) has un-paralled geo-strategic presence. It has a footprint on every darn continent. Uk does not have half that presence and Germany has literally nothing in comparison. With the loss of Diego Garcia and possibly the Malvinas, uk is going to turn into little england as the people on continent have called it for decades.

As for the German wealth derived at the expense of France and Italy since the formation of euro. It will have to be returned either through fiscal union or through bailouts.

Those are failing countries in Africa that France is bombing. But when faced with a slightly more organized country like Lybia France immediately calls big Papa...

 

[ForigenSanghi]

Those are failing countries in Africa that France is bombing. But when faced with a slightly more organized country like Lybia France immediately calls big Papa...

As opposed to the USA which is bombing the booming economies of Iraq and Afghanistan.

And who is the USA having to call its papa in Afghanistan? Do tell...