Kaveri Engine

[Ugra Bhairav]

Tejas MK-II put in limbo. USA twisting arms.

Kaveri ko fund nahi kiya aab Bhugto..

 

[TopWatcher]

Tejas MK-II put in limbo. USA twisting arms.

Kaveri ko fund nahi kiya aab Bhugto..

I am even thinking, kaun aisa babu baida hai govnrment ki jisko USA ki history nahin pata aur deal kar baida engine ka.

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

I am even thinking, kaun aisa babu baida hai govnrment ki jisko USA ki history nahin pata aur deal kar baida engine ka.

We are purchasing GE-404 since TD & PV days of Tejas. It is natural choice.

However criminal was linking of GE-414 to screwdriver in India, you yourselves handed over your arm to be twisted by amrica badhur.

MOST Criminal was stifling KAVERI of Funds when you were ALREADY senctioned in 1990s.

Imported Air Force and BABUs had not learned any lessons.

Aab Bhugto....

Now Spend 20Billion on meager 114 MRFA.

1/10 th of 20Billions would have done wonders had it been spent on Kaveri.

Biggest monkey running after Imported Fruits was IAF.

 

[sameer3694]

Powering Proliferation: The Global Engine Market and China’s Indigenization

The military turbofan engine market proliferates technology nations like China need to build modern jet engines to compete with the United States. This brief explores China’s push to modernize its capabilities and broader dynamics in the global military engine market.

www.csis.org

Despite not being related to the Kaveri program, this is a very interesting article about jet engines.
Talks about the origin of the first jet engines which was initially driven by UK and Germany in World war II era. After the war, UK transferred its engine tech to US, Soviets got it from Germany.

China started its program in the 70's getting help from western firms. In 1976, Rolls-Royce sold the rights and machinery to produce its Spey MK.202 turbofan engines, intended for use in Chinese tactical ground-attack aircraft, to the Chinese aerospace industry. Russians helped them further in the 90's

Additionally, Chinese jet engines currently have only 1/4th the reliability of western jet engines. One of the biggest barriers for Chinese engines is the immense engineering and manufacturing capabilities required to design and operate the Advanced 5 and 7 axis CNC machining tools. This capability in machine tooling dictates the ability to manufacture products such as large aircraft structures and compressor turbine blades. These tools are currently restricted under export controls and manufactured by a select few countries like US, Germany and Japan.

TLDR; We need an all round system approach to even get remotely close to western jet engines. Large investments in machining tools and techniques, Material sciences, CFD and Composite materials as well as human technological resources are required.

 

[TopWatcher]

Powering Proliferation: The Global Engine Market and China’s Indigenization

The military turbofan engine market proliferates technology nations like China need to build modern jet engines to compete with the United States. This brief explores China’s push to modernize its capabilities and broader dynamics in the global military engine market.

www.csis.org

Despite not being related to the Kaveri program, this is a very interesting article about jet engines.
Talks about the origin of the first jet engines which was initially driven by UK and Germany in World war II era. After the war, UK transferred its engine tech to US, Soviets got it from Germany.

China started its program in the 70's getting help from western firms. In 1976, Rolls-Royce sold the rights and machinery to produce its Spey MK.202 turbofan engines, intended for use in Chinese tactical ground-attack aircraft, to the Chinese aerospace industry. Russians helped them further in the 90's

Additionally, Chinese jet engines currently have only 1/4th the reliability of western jet engines. One of the biggest barriers for Chinese engines is the immense engineering and manufacturing capabilities required to design and operate the Advanced 5 and 7 axis CNC machining tools. This capability in machine tooling dictates the ability to manufacture products such as large aircraft structures and compressor turbine blades. These tools are currently restricted under export controls and manufactured by a select few countries like US, Germany and Japan.

TLDR; We need an all round system approach to even get remotely close to western jet engines. Large investments in machining tools and techniques, Material sciences, CFD and Composite materials as well as human technological resources are required.

God knows why western companies give tech to China but not India. Why they hate India.

 

[sameer3694]

God knows why western companies give tech to China but not India. Why they hate India.

For military related stuff, lot of this tech transfer was done during the 70's to 90's, continuing into 00's . The western(primarily American) idea at that time was to wean China away from Russia and cause a Sino-soviet schism. These prevailing thought process at that time was that China would take this technology, open itself up and become an anti-russian bulwark in Asia. Of course this idea backfired spectacularly 40 years later. Thank the m**derchod Kissinger for such brilliant ideas.

Muricans and Cheenks enmity is only recent, they were pretty good friends from 70's till the 00's.

 

[Satish Sharma]

we had jet engine before kaveri called GTX 37 -14U WHICH MADE 45KN &65kn wet thrust its next version was also made GTX 37 -14UB with 89kn thrust(turbofan variant). It had 3stage LP
7 stage HP compressor.(ge f404 uses 7HP). And it was all done in 1977. Way before kaveri
When tejas idea came gtre got the project and used kabini core of its earlier engine ..the first problem was to make its HP compressor of 5 stage, whereas 7 stages were used in kabini ... Its stages where increased after a russian guy who suggested to increase 1 stage i forgot his name. He with his all colleagues where ready to work and come in india to work on it for 1000 dollars/month after ussr collapsed but ministry did not respond it and also foreigners cant work on gov projects.

We should have prefered russkie & chinki way by just adding more High pressure/low pressure stages to compensate other

hal made very capable jet for kiran called HJE-2500. But rolls royce lobbying was just too much at that time. We made this in 1965..

Initially kaveri had alot of problems many were solved with Safran assistance like vibration excess sound etc. We were certainly capable but metallurgy is what we lag to sustain those high temperatures while afterburning. They dont even want to give a tejas for testing how will it succeed. Even that takes approval of hundreds of unaccoutable bureaucrats..

Our metallurgy was always a big problem the GTX 37-14U had 45kn dry thrust but only increase of 20kn in wet thrust..


The biggest succes achieved as of now is we are capable of making SINGLE CRYSTAL BLADES both hal & gtre can do it. This blades have more life than other blades processes..
Now kaveri is stable engine with reported 52KN thrust. The afterburning thrust was reported 81kn. Before it was said between 73-78KN...
It's dry variants is used now in ghatak.
Tessy Thomas (missile women ) in a interview has said kaveri can power Tejas for takeoff And flight.

 

[Satish Sharma]

We are purchasing GE-404 since TD & PV days of Tejas. It is natural choice.

However criminal was linking of GE-414 to screwdriver in India, you yourselves handed over your arm to be twisted by amrica badhur.

MOST Criminal was stifling KAVERI of Funds when you were ALREADY senctioned in 1990s.

Imported Air Force and BABUs had not learned any lessons.

Aab Bhugto....

Now Spend 20Billion on meager 114 MRFA.

1/10 th of 20Billions would have done wonders had it been spent on Kaveri.

Biggest monkey running after Imported Fruits was IAF.

Gtre has made successful dry thrust engine. Which is stable makes descent power of 52kn..
We just need more attention for metallurgy.
It has achieved alot with peanuts funding.

Does the failure of India to complete the Kaveri jet engine stand as a testimony for its technical capabilities?

Tirtha Chakrabarti's answer: Kaveri engine a failure? And that’s the only testimony of India’s technical capabilities? May be yes. India doesn’t have any technical capability. 4.5 gen Fighter jet (Tejas), Attack helicopter (LCH), Main Battle Tank (Arjun) Aircraft carrier (INS Vikrant), Stea...

www.quora.com

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

I hope some fruitful happens regarding Local Engine Development :

 

[Satish Sharma]

Marine kaveri in progress

 

[The3Amigos]

God knows why western companies give tech to China but not India. Why they hate India.

Jet engine is not that super duper tech. It is old school technology based on old school science.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Jet engine is not that super duper tech. It is old school technology based on old school science.

Ma chuda bhadwe sare engine to tum chinki ping pong ne Russia(al31, klimov rd33) ke reverse engineering karke banaye hai..
Israeli Lavi was brought and made j10
Yakutlev helped in l15
Su27.&su33 ko j11,15,16.bolte ho..
Israel helped in developing IR MISSILES Israeli gave tech of python 3. Which they was called pl 8 after achieving 2/3rd indigenousation..
Elm elta 2032 tech was transferred on which Chinese radars are based and some Soviet reverse engineered tech as well...
Mig21 ko j7
Mig 1.44 ko j20 (just changing air Intakes.

 

[NutCracker]

Jet engine is not that super duper tech. It is old school technology based on old school science.

Not really, its blade-metallurgy is ever evolving process.

 

[SavageKing456]

Jet engine is not that super duper tech. It is old school technology based on old school science.

The physics is old but material science and metallurgy is ever evolving
We all know about fluid flow through curved vanes,
Supersonic expansion through converging diverging nozzle
But which material(composite,metals,alloys) combination produces optimum performance is the real deal
I think what india is lacking is machining
And many tools

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

The physics is old but material science and metallurgy is ever evolving
We all know about fluid flow through curved vanes,
Supersonic expansion through converging diverging nozzle
But which material(composite,metals,alloys) combination produces optimum performance is the real deal
I think what india is lacking is machining
And many tools

Add testing labs to validate the numbers.
Dog shit funding and lack of manpower.

 

[SavageKing456]

Add testing labs to validate the numbers.
Dog shit funding and lack of manpower.

Manpower comes with proper flow of fund
The researchers leave once they get better deal
You need to treat them like girls
No phD wala will do research with pay grade of <50k(even that is less)

 

[mamamia12]

The physics is old but material science and metallurgy is ever evolving
We all know about fluid flow through curved vanes,
Supersonic expansion through converging diverging nozzle
But which material(composite,metals,alloys) combination produces optimum performance is the real deal
I think what india is lacking is machining
And many tools

Isn't is about strong enough material to withstand the extreme temperature. The more the inlet temperature the more thrust it can output at same size. The russians are at some 1500 to 1600C while US is at 1980C. Some said even to increase some 10C it takes billions of money.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Isn't is about strong enough material to withstand the extreme temperature. The more the inlet temperature the more thrust it can output at same size. The russians are at some 1500 to 1600C while US is at 1980C. Some said even to increase some 10C it takes billions of money.

I some where read that if kaveri HP stage temperature resistance increases by 60° it's life will double..

 

[blackleaf]

Marine kaveri in progress

We need this as soon as possible. Hopefully it is designed to easily replace the Ukrainian engines in the Talwar and the P-15 class ships when they go into refit.

 

[Azaad]

We need this as soon as possible. Hopefully it is designed to easily replace the Ukrainian engines in the Talwar and the P-15 class ships when they go into refit.

With a 12 MW Engine the max you can power is upto a 3000 Ton Corvette.