Kaveri Engine

[SilentlAssassin265]

LoL, Dry Kaveri has already been selected to power Ghatak UCAV.
Kaveri Aero in its current form generates 73kN of thrust, about the same as the M88 which powers the Rafales.
Since it's inception barely $400 million have been invested into the program, the Chinese on the other hand invested tens of billions for them to reach where they are at today.

Just because it can reach 73kN doesn't mean that it can work reliably for decades, in jet engines the experience and reliability matters a lot.
Also there are several issues with the metallurgy in kaveri especially during afterburner use.

 

[no smoking]

LoL, Dry Kaveri has already been selected to power Ghatak UCAV.

How many Ghatak UCAV are in operation? Zero!
How many flying hours have these Kaveri engine accumulated on UCAV? Zero!

Kaveri Aero in its current form generates 73kN of thrust, about the same as the M88 which powers the Rafales.

You forgot to mention: the target dry weight of Kaveri is 1100kg (last time I check it was still overweighted) while the dry weight of M88 is only 897kg.

 

[TopWatcher]

Koi nhi, kuch na hone se accha, hum dhire dhire kisi din final product tak pahuch hi jayenge.

 

[Azaad]

How many Ghatak UCAV are in operation? Zero!
How many flying hours have these Kaveri engine accumulated on UCAV? Zero!

So China went from copying / reverse engineering MiG-19s in the 1950s to development & mfg the J-20 in 10 years didn't they ?

You seem to be the kind of guy who after shooting his load into his wife will basically blame her for not delivering the next day & Mao forbid if she delivered a girl.

You forgot to mention: the target dry weight of Kaveri is 1100kg (last time I check it was still overweighted) while the dry weight of M88 is only 897kg.

The PSQR of the IAF is 1000 kgs. It's 100 kgs overweight by those specifications . Its components are being replaced by lighter weight materials.

Come back with better gripes wumao. Like what are the Water Sport - WS Turbofans derived from ? What life cycle tests have been performed on it ? How many total hours of flight are they certified for before overhauling ?

List them in the appropriate sub section with CREDIBLE REFERENCES . Don't go about indulging in the Han favourite hobby of dropping your pants & defecating anywhere & everywhere as & when the urge strikes you .

 

[no smoking]

So China went from copying / reverse engineering MiG-19s in the 1950s to development & mfg the J-20 in 10 years didn't they ?

You seem to be the kind of guy who after shooting his load into his wife will basically blame her for not delivering the next day & Mao forbid if she delivered a girl.

Sorry to hurt your childish heart by pointing out the truth.
But the fact is fact. At least, I didn't see any Chinese compare their engine to West or even Soviet engine before seeing one hour flying.

The PSQR of the IAF is 1000 kgs. It's 100 kgs overweight by those specifications . Its components are being replaced by lighter weight materials.

Well, obviously, Dr Mohana Rao doesn't agree with you:

"The reason was two-fold”, explains Mohana Rao. “The Kaveri turned out 15% heavier than we planned. From the planned 1100 kg, its final weight has gone up to 1265 kg.”

Come back with better gripes wumao. Like what are the Water Sport - WS Turbofans derived from ? What life cycle tests have been performed on it ? How many total hours of flight are they certified for before overhauling ?

List them in the appropriate sub section with CREDIBLE REFERENCES . Don't go about indulging in the Han favourite hobby of dropping your pants & defecating anywhere & everywhere as & when the urge strikes you.

Funny, why should I provide these? I didn't claim that Chinese engine is good or bad.
All we know is that Chinese engines are installed on their jet and flying every day. So we know that they accumulating data and improving. That is good enough for me.

If you want to claim that your engine is on par with western engine or superior than Chinese engine, at least show us how many hours has it flied.

So if you want to step in to defend something, please provide some useful information about this product instead of questioning others' product or personal insulting. That doesn't help your case here, boy.

 

[karn]

No clue about its veracity but if true it's a welcome development.

This not surprising ... For a tailess LO drone thrust vectoring is essential.

 

[Azaad]

Sorry to hurt your childish heart by pointing out the truth.
But the fact is fact. At least, I didn't see any Chinese compare their engine to West or even Soviet engine before seeing one hour flying.

I didn't see anybody in a position of authority compare the Kaveri to its western counterpart too wumao. So whom exactly are you referring to here ?

Unless you're referring to some hyper nationalist kid online who pretended to be an authority on the Kaveri which you readily accepted. Sorry to point out your naivete & stupidity wumao . But it's not our fault if decades of famines across generations during your 170+ years of humiliation have led to substantial stunting in SOME sections of the Chinese as you've been manifesting out here .

Well, obviously, Dr Mohana Rao doesn't agree with you:

"The reason was two-fold”, explains Mohana Rao. “The Kaveri turned out 15% heavier than we planned. From the planned 1100 kg, its final weight has gone up to 1265 kg.”

Wtf is Dr Mohana Rao , wumao & is this data from last century ? Must be so going by your retarded antics all through out your stay here .

The current weight of the Kaveri is 1100 kgs . It's 100 tons overweight. Which part of it didn't you understand , retard ?

Funny, why should I provide these? I didn't claim that Chinese engine is good or bad.

No you didn't. But I'm asking you to do so . Is there a problem in you providing us such details & if so why ?

All we know is that Chinese engines are installed on their jet and flying every day. So we know that they accumulating data and improving. That is good enough for me.

Amazing ! This is the first time I've come across a sensible answer from a wumao. You must be the MSS sectional incharge of the rest of the gang of wumaos here for that's what they keep doing in China related threads out here.

If you want to claim that your engine is on par with western engine or superior than Chinese engine, at least show us how many hours has it flied.

What else do you want Wumao ? It's material composition ? Or perhaps the test results in the recently concluded tests at the Gromov Flight Research Institute - a high altitude lab in Russia. Anything else wumao ? A million dollars perhaps ? Submit your demands in writing while we think of what to do with it & you .

So if you want to step in to defend something, please provide some useful information about this product instead of questioning others' product or personal insulting. That doesn't help your case here, boy.

Pls refer to what I've posted above wumao. We WILL NOT let wumaos indulge in open defecation as is their wont inside China or outside of it whenever the urge strikes them . It's absolutely uh uh & non negotiable. Now phuck off.

 

[no smoking]

I didn't see anybody in a position of authority compare the Kaveri to its western counterpart too wumao. So whom exactly are you referring to here ?

Unless you're referring to some hyper nationalist kid online who pretended to be an authority on the Kaveri which you readily accepted. Sorry to point out your naivete & stupidity wumao . But it's not our fault if decades of famines across generations during your 170+ years of humiliation have led to substantial stunting in SOME sections of the Chinese as you've been manifesting out here .

It is funny that an Indian speaks like this as if his country's history under British colonization is kind of glorious history.

Wtf is Dr Mohana Rao , wumao & is this data from last century ? Must be so going by your retarded antics all through out your stay here .

The current weight of the Kaveri is 1100 kgs . It's 100 tons overweight. Which part of it didn't you understand , retard ?

Any source to support this?

No you didn't. But I'm asking you to do so . Is there a problem in you providing us such details & if so why ?

Simply I don't care what you want. This is Kaveri Engine thread, we are talking about Kaveri engine only. If you want to talk about Chinese engine, you can create one and dump all your shit there.
You can claim whatever you want about Chinese engine, I am alright about it. After all, I can't argue with a child.

Amazing ! This is the first time I've come across a sensible answer from a wumao. You must be the MSS sectional incharge of the rest of the gang of wumaos here for that's what they keep doing in China related threads out here.



What else do you want Wumao ? It's material composition ? Or perhaps the test results in the recently concluded tests at the Gromov Flight Research Institute - a high altitude lab in Russia. Anything else wumao ? A million dollars perhaps ? Submit your demands in writing while we think of what to do with it & you .



Pls refer to what I've posted above wumao. We WILL NOT let wumaos indulge in open defecation as is their wont inside China or outside of it whenever the urge strikes them . It's absolutely uh uh & non negotiable. Now phuck off.

Well done, kid, your mother must be very proud of you.

 

[Azaad]

It is funny that an Indian speaks like this as if his country's history under British colonization is kind of glorious history.

No it isn't. But do you see an army of Indian wumaos constantly simping for India in Chinese fora & other social media platforms the way Chinese wumaos are doing on Indian fora & other SM platform like you & your fellow wumaos do out here day & night 24x7. It seems clear , you're desperate for Indian validation !

Any source to support this?

I've yet to see your sources wumao.

Simply I don't care what you want.

If you can't reciprocate why're you even engaging Hanimal ?

This is Kaveri Engine thread, we are talking about Kaveri engine only. If you want to talk about Chinese engine, you can create one and dump all your shit there.

You can quote this post there & I'd respond. Aren't you even familiar with such basic stuff in spite of being out here for more than a decade ? And dumping shit is what Hanimals do wherever they please whenever they please , no exceptions . The only race in the world to engage in such vile & obnoxious behaviour.

You can claim whatever you want about Chinese engine, I am alright about it. After all, I can't argue with a child

If you're alright about Chinese engines , transfer the same emotions to the Indian engines & phuck off Hanimal or don't. I don't take Hanimal"s seriously in any case .

Well done, kid, your mother must be very proud of you.

Always is & will be , unlike you & yours.

 

[raju1982]

You guys can fight as long as you want but the fact remain same. China has operational 4th gen engines and India dont.

DRDO's ADE and GTRE failed miserably and most of the labs are not upto the mark. Mostly filled with older generation people who are incpable of doing great things. They think DRDO is just another sarkari job and R&D org.

If we have to fight China, we have to fight it's MIC, which is now only second to USA. DRDO needs complete re-shape now.

 

[Azaad]

You guys can fight as long as you want but the fact remain same. China has operational 4th gen engines and India dont.

DRDO's ADE and GTRE failed miserably and most of the labs are not upto the mark. Mostly filled with older generation people who are incpable of doing great things. They think DRDO is just another sarkari job and R&D org.

If we have to fight China, we have to fight it's MIC, which is now only second to USA. DRDO needs complete re-shape now.

What shape are those 4th / 5th Gen TFs in ? Any data whether from Chinese western or other sources to testify to their efficacy ? Do you know the base TF from which they derived their entire family of WS TFs powering different FAs its origin, its TTSL , etc?

It's the Al-31 . We're mfg a version of it at HAL Koraput since more than a decade & multiple reports have suggested we've indigenized the entire sub assemblies , components etc to the point where we've improved upon the original design & are not dependant on the Russians anymore for either supply of vital components or raw material or sub assemblies.


The Chinese accomplished it a decade ago or slightly more than a decade. The original Al-31 itself has a very limited shelf life & the time between overhauls is very short as compared to western TFs with similar capacities. This is exactly what will plague their current & future generations of TFs all their prowess of reverse engineering , copying from western & Russian sources , espionage on an industrial scale notwithstanding . Will they improve on the original ? Of course they will but if the base product itself is sub par how far wil whatever improvements they undertake to better the end product can be well imagined .

Now please pause to think if we've been hunting for a partner to develop & mfg a clean sheet TF for the AMCA Mk-2 , why haven't we even short listed the Russians when we've been collaborating with them since the 1960s ?!

The situation as it exists today for the Indian research development & mfg ecosystem viz - DRDO , GTRE & HAL is we can engineer a much more improved version of the AL-31 independently . We're already testing the dru version of the Kaveri on board the Ghatak which should be certified by the end of this decade.

Once that is thru , further development on a new iteration of the Kaveri TF - the K-10 , with AFB will commence for trials & certification presumably to replace the F-404 on board the LCA Mk-1 / Mk-1a during its MLU somewhere in the late 2030s . If the initial results are encouraging we might emulate the Chinese & go in for multiple iterations just like they are to power our LCA Mk-2 , AMCA Mk-1 , TEDBF during their MLU.

In the meanwhile we're expected to finalize our partner for the JV to develop a clean sheet TF for the AMCA Mk-2 by next year which looks to be SAFRAN in all likelihood.

Hence come the 2030s we'd have a multitude of TF development programs underway which given the size of our economy & consequent increased responsibilities of our armed forces we'd be able to afford & more importantly develop in house.

 

[lcafanboy]

 

[samsaptaka]

What shape are those 4th / 5th Gen TFs in ? Any data whether from Chinese western or other sources to testify to their efficacy ? Do you know the base TF from which they derived their entire family of WS TFs powering different FAs its origin, its TTSL , etc?

It's the Al-31 . We're mfg a version of it at HAL Koraput since more than a decade & multiple reports have suggested we've indigenized the entire sub assemblies , components etc to the point where we've improved upon the original design & are not dependant on the Russians anymore for either supply of vital components or raw material or sub assemblies.


The Chinese accomplished it a decade ago or slightly more than a decade. The original Al-31 itself has a very limited shelf life & the time between overhauls is very short as compared to western TFs with similar capacities. This is exactly what will plague their current & future generations of TFs all their prowess of reverse engineering , copying from western & Russian sources , espionage on an industrial scale notwithstanding . Will they improve on the original ? Of course they will but if the base product itself is sub par how far wil whatever improvements they undertake to better the end product can be well imagined .

Now please pause to think if we've been hunting for a partner to develop & mfg a clean sheet TF for the AMCA Mk-2 , why haven't we even short listed the Russians when we've been collaborating with them since the 1960s ?!

The situation as it exists today for the Indian research development & mfg ecosystem viz - DRDO , GTRE & HAL is we can engineer a much more improved version of the AL-31 independently . We're already testing the dru version of the Kaveri on board the Ghatak which should be certified by the end of this decade.

Once that is thru , further development on a new iteration of the Kaveri TF - the K-10 , with AFB will commence for trials & certification presumably to replace the F-404 on board the LCA Mk-1 / Mk-1a during its MLU somewhere in the late 2030s . If the initial results are encouraging we might emulate the Chinese & go in for multiple iterations just like they are to power our LCA Mk-2 , AMCA Mk-1 , TEDBF during their MLU.

In the meanwhile we're expected to finalize our partner for the JV to develop a clean sheet TF for the AMCA Mk-2 by next year which looks to be SAFRAN in all likelihood.

Hence come the 2030s we'd have a multitude of TF development programs underway which given the size of our economy & consequent increased responsibilities of our armed forces we'd be able to afford & more importantly develop in house.

You have to accept that we are behind chinka in jet engine tech. They have operationalized jet engines and mass producing them. Whether these match up to the western engines or whether they have flaws etc.. is a separate discussion. They went for 'good enough' instead of 'perfect'. We on the other hand may not even have a 'good enough' engine, we do not even have an FTB do we ?
Unless GoI invests massive money we will forever be dependent on west, something which the chinkas have consciously tried to avoid. They may have copied soviet tech, but that does not matter at the end of the day.
All our JV's are just screwdriver giri, we will remain dependant on the west.

 

[Azaad]

You have to accept that we are behind chinka in jet engine tech. They have operationalized jet engines and mass producing them. Whether these match up to the western engines or whether they have flaws etc.. is a separate discussion. They went for 'good enough' instead of 'perfect'. We on the other hand may not even have a 'good enough' engine, we do not even have an FTB do we ?
Unless GoI invests massive money we will forever be dependent on west, something which the chinkas have consciously tried to avoid. They may have copied soviet tech, but that does not matter at the end of the day.
All our JV's are just screwdriver giri, we will remain dependant on the west.

Who's denying we're behind them ? But what seems to be implicit in most naysayers arguments is that it's all doom & gloom & we'd never have an indigenous class of TF powering our own indigenously designed & mfgd FAs. The technological advantage China enjoys over India isn't insurmountable unlike what it is between India & Paxtan.

Secondly China doesn't have a choice in the matter do they unlike us? For all the begging borrowing & stealing they've been up to since their inception, their platforms & weapons are sub par.

It's not even the equivalent of what the SU exported in their hey day which in itself were monkey models & though inferior to their western counterparts did the job in capable hands. India & Vietnam are examples of it.

What're the examples of Chinese origin weapons or platforms acquiting themselves honourably or with flying colors in a high intensity conflict? Consider this for instance - the J-10s & the J-16s have been around for close to a decade if not more. Yet how many such systems have they exported. More importantly how many such systems have they allowed potential buyers to evaluate?

So this argument that they'd improve upon their base product doesn't cut it, I'm afraid, as the Gulf between western & non western systems are increasing by the day. If the base product itself is sub par, you can well imagine the kind of improvements that'd be effective & the time it'd take to implement them.

First movers advantage isn't universal & doesn't apply in all scenarios. Having said that our criminal lack of investment in R&D, specific projects, testing & evaluation systems is inexcusable. But that's a different debate for another day. I also beg to differ with your assessments that all our JVs are screwdrivergiri. Had that been the case we'd not have achieved near independence in development of radar & missile systems.

 

[samsaptaka]

What're the examples of Chinese origin weapons or platforms acquiting themselves honourably or with flying colors in a high intensity conflict?

Yes, we do not have data of how well the chinka weapon systems/engines perform.
But in the absence of data of an enemies weapon, better to overestimate than underestimate
and fail.

as the Gulf between western & non western systems are increasing by the day.

This may not be true for chinka land. Remember the west willingly outsourced manufacturing to them, and they are able to manufacture high end chips as well. So the gap may not be that much. And when compared to us they can more than make up with quantity what they lack in quality

 

[NutCracker]

@AnantS
Kaveri thread

Considering the weight, Kaveri need to produce F414 thrust, around 95KN

Being 200kg heavier than F404 , but having 55/90kN thrust, should be fine.

Also we don't even know what's the maximum kN for which the airflow MK1 's inlet can allow .

 

[AnantS]

@AnantS
Kaveri thread




Being 200kg heavier than F404 , but having 55/90kN thrust, should be fine.

Also we don't even know what's the maximum kN for which the airflow MK1 's inlet can allow .

Tejas I believe TD and PV were designed around Kaveri in mind. So should not be big task to configure Tejas for Kaveri for trials(Though its senseless to test this engine directly on single engined plane)

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

I think it's a complete waste to work on an indigenous jet engine. GoI should look into Vedic scripts and master mercury ion propulsion technology

 

[Corvus Splendens]

I think it's a complete waste to work on an indigenous jet engine. GoI should look into Vedic scripts and master mercury ion propulsion technology

 

[TopWatcher]

I think it's a complete waste to work on an indigenous jet engine. GoI should look into Vedic scripts and master mercury ion propulsion technology

Bhai jet engine to baan nahin raha, dossri murgi pakadne aur chale..