Kaveri Engine

[blackleaf]

With a 12 MW Engine the max you can power is upto a 3000 Ton Corvette.

Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine is 25% more powerful than its equivariant: DRDO Chief – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Hopefully it is 12 MW under Indian conditions which is equivalent to 16 MW under international conditions.

The DT-59 turbines on the Talwars and P-15s are presumably around 16.5 MW in international conditions. So not that different.

 

[Azaad]

Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine is 25% more powerful than its equivariant: DRDO Chief – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Hopefully it is 12 MW under Indian conditions which is equivalent to 16 MW under international conditions.

The DT-59 turbines on the Talwars and P-15s are presumably around 16.5 MW in international conditions. So not that different.

12 MW under Indian conditions. In any case the IN is going in for electric propulsion for its next gen capital ships. Whether these also include < 3000 Tons ships is unknown at this point in time.

The MGTE has limited applications as far as the IN goes as of the present but we need to test our indigenous capabilities in this field for future developments.

 

[standard snowball]

we had jet engine before kaveri called GTX 37 -14U WHICH MADE 45KN &65kn wet thrust its next version was also made GTX 37 -14UB with 89kn thrust(turbofan variant). It had 3stage LP
7 stage HP compressor.(ge f404 uses 7HP). And it was all done in 1977. Way before kaveri
When tejas idea came gtre got the project and used kabini core of its earlier engine ..the first problem was to make its HP compressor of 5 stage, whereas 7 stages were used in kabini ... Its stages where increased after a russian guy who suggested to increase 1 stage i forgot his name. He with his all colleagues where ready to work and come in india to work on it for 1000 dollars/month after ussr collapsed but ministry did not respond it and also foreigners cant work on gov projects.

We should have prefered russkie & chinki way by just adding more High pressure/low pressure stages to compensate other

hal made very capable jet for kiran called HJE-2500. But rolls royce lobbying was just too much at that time. We made this in 1965..

Initially kaveri had alot of problems many were solved with Safran assistance like vibration excess sound etc. We were certainly capable but metallurgy is what we lag to sustain those high temperatures while afterburning. They dont even want to give a tejas for testing how will it succeed. Even that takes approval of hundreds of unaccoutable bureaucrats..

Our metallurgy was always a big problem the GTX 37-14U had 45kn dry thrust but only increase of 20kn in wet thrust..


The biggest succes achieved as of now is we are capable of making SINGLE CRYSTAL BLADES both hal & gtre can do it. This blades have more life than other blades processes..
Now kaveri is stable engine with reported 52KN thrust. The afterburning thrust was reported 81kn. Before it was said between 73-78KN...
It's dry variants is used now in ghatak.
Tessy Thomas (missile women ) in a interview has said kaveri can power Tejas for takeoff And flight.

Tell me more about this Russian team and the engine, where can I read more about this

 

[blackleaf]

12 MW under Indian conditions. In any case the IN is going in for electric propulsion for its next gen capital ships. Whether these also include < 3000 Tons ships is unknown at this point in time.

The MGTE has limited applications as far as the IN goes as of the present but we need to test our indigenous capabilities in this field for future developments.

I'm more concerned about what we are going to do with the current ships that use Ukrainian engine if they can no longer supply them. Using western propulsion for new ships is fine.

However we need something for the older ships that go into refit if the Ukrainian factory is actually destroyed.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Tell me more about this Russian team and the engine, where can I read more about this

There was not much of Russian team involvement I remember reading a bureaucrat ,there I found that initially kaveri had 5 HP stages then a Russian guy suggested to increase one..
And I will message you personally things which I will find... Which I have read

 

[SavageKing456]

Isn't is about strong enough material to withstand the extreme temperature. The more the inlet temperature the more thrust it can output at same size. The russians are at some 1500 to 1600C while US is at 1980C. Some said even to increase some 10C it takes billions of money.

How material properties vary over combustion also
Proper research is needed

 

[angryIndian]

Delivery of Engines for Tejas MK-1A will start only in 2nd Half of 2024. And GE has will be able to deliver No more then 20 ENGINES PER YEAR.

Aur Mat Invest karo apne Kaveri Engine mai!! Saalon ko $200million mai Jet Engine Chaiye.

Babu I've worked with these Americans on an Industrial turbine maintenance program.

These people were not even willing to share the know-how of how to replace the blade of a compressor stage, let alone transfer the tech to us.
I wonder how our Baboos placed such faith in them for a project as critical as the Tejas program.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Good news, with that Su-30MKI testbed plan in motion we may see a fast-track testing of this (derivative ?) engine in near future.
Although 80 kN engine seems a bit underpowered for Tejas line of jets when F404 Indian fork provides 85 kN with afterburner

 

[AnantS]

Good news, with that Su-30MKI testbed plan in motion we may see a fast-track testing of this (derivative ?) engine in near future.
Although 80 kN engine seems a bit underpowered for Tejas line of jets when F404 Indian fork provides 85 kN with afterburner

80kn is for UAVs and LIFT

 

[Johny_Baba]

80kn is for UAVs and LIFT

oh yeah Ghatak and probably HLFT-42

 

[NutCracker]

80kn is for UAVs and LIFT

No , this is the variant with afterburner ,UAV will never use Afterburner, also no new LIFT platform underway.

It will go inside Tejas only. 7-8 years from now Tejas FOC will go under mid life maintenance and Kaveri with 85+ kN will be developed by then to fit inside Tejas.

oh yeah Ghatak and probably HLFT-42

HLFT marut is most probably single engine jet with 110kN engine .

 

[Johny_Baba]

HLFT marut is most probably single engine jet with 110kN engine

as per wikipedia its payload is 5000 kg compared to 5500 some kg on current Mk1 Tejas; so giving far more powerful engine to a LIFT class jet than our point defense fighter jet seems somewhat weird to me

 

[AnantS]

as per wikipedia its payload is 5000 kg compared to 5500 some kg on current Mk1 Tejas; so giving far more powerful engine to a LIFT class jet than our point defense fighter jet seems somewhat weird to me

Actually there is already seriously thought on having Kaveri for LIFT(Marut class) Read Prof Prodyut Das writings on same.

 

[NutCracker]

as per wikipedia its payload is 5000 kg compared to 5500 some kg on current Mk1 Tejas; so giving far more powerful engine to a LIFT class jet than our point defense fighter jet seems somewhat weird to me

.
HLFT will be Tejas MK2 category trainer with 100+kN engine. I remember HVT telling this in an interview of the expo-23.

It will also have 16.5+T mtow.

 

[Azaad]

Good news, with that Su-30MKI testbed plan in motion we may see a fast-track testing of this (derivative ?) engine in near future.
Although 80 kN engine seems a bit underpowered for Tejas line of jets when F404 Indian fork provides 85 kN with afterburner

Who says this is the Kaveri TF for the LCA ? It could well be our fully indigenized AL-31FP & the ratings given there must be the dry thrust .

 

[mamamia12]

No , this is the variant with afterburner ,UAV will never use Afterburner, also no new LIFT platform underway.

It will go inside Tejas only. 7-8 years from now Tejas FOC will go under mid life maintenance and Kaveri with 85+ kN will be developed by then to fit inside Tejas.



HLFT marut is most probably single engine jet with 110kN engine .

Once we have a complete jet with indigenous turbofan then there would be no turning back. It will be the starting point of true Atmanirbhar. As you can see, any Indigenous System we conceived which never had any active or passive sabotage or passed beyond point of sabotage, for that we had done an excellent job for the money we invested in.

 

[karn]

Who says this is the Kaveri TF for the LCA ? It could well be our fully indigenized AL-31FP & the ratings given there must be the dry thrust .

GTRE has nothing to do with the AL31 ..
The tender would have been called by HAL if that was the case.

 

[Azaad]

GTRE has nothing to do with the AL31 ..
The tender would have been called by HAL if that was the case.

Is HAL tasked with indigenizing AL-31FP ? Do they have the wherewithal to do it ? I don't think so.

Besides the AFB version of the Kaveri won't move before the dry thrust version is certified on the Ghatak . That's 5-7 years away . Post that we'd see the program for a new TF derived from the Kaveri sanctioned by the GoI .

Hopefully that generates 54 KN dry thrust & 90 KN + wet thrust . That new version will take another 5-7 years , likely more , from mfg to certification. We're a long way off from powering the LCAs with a Kaveri derivative during the MLU. .

 

[karn]

Is HAL tasked with indigenizing AL-31FP ? Do they have the wherewithal to do it ? I don't think so.

Besides the AFB version of the Kaveri won't move before the dry thrust version is certified on the Ghatak . That's 5-7 years away . Post that we'd see the program for a new TF derived from the Kaveri sanctioned by the GoI .

Hopefully that generates 54 KN dry thrust & 90 KN + wet thrust . That new version will take another 5-7 years , likely more , from mfg to certification. We're a long way off from powering the LCAs with a Kaveri derivative during the MLU. .

HAL is the only agency involved with the the AL31 . GTRE is nowhere in the picture leave alone getting tasked with anything.

It's only your assumption that dry and wet Kaveri need to be in serial. Godrej already has the contract for producing the kaveris for the UAV.

 

[Azaad]

HAL is the only agency involved with the the AL31 . GTRE is nowhere in the picture leave alone getting tasked with anything.

It's only your assumption that dry and wet Kaveri need to be in serial. Godrej already has the contract for producing the kaveris for the UAV.

Multiple agencies have been reporting the current lot of 8 nos dry thrust version of the Kaveri TF is being mfgd by Godrej since 2022 & you're singing a different note out here .


For indigenization of the AL-31FP & up rating it which is what a part of Project Ganga is all about in keeping with the IAF SQRs for this TF , DRDO will have to be roped with GTRE playing the role of the lead integrator with other DRDO labs contributing & HAL functioning as the production agency.

If HAL were so competent as a development agency , we'd have developed indigenous FAs & various other vital components like the TF long ago.

Look at the progress of the HTFE. It was kicked off in ~ 2012-13 & was supposed to have been certified by 2022-23 . The date's now been pushed to 2030 & even that's not a certainty.