INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[ninja85]

what is that machine?

 

[nirranj]

what is that machine?

Fire retardent Brick used in the Boiler. Poor quality bricks used previously were responsible for the failure of the boilers in 2012 trials.

 

[nirranj]

Doesn't quite answer your question, but is an interesting read: Why do Russians and Chinese built aircraft carriers will an upward curved deck? - Yahoo Answers

From one of the answer (also quoted from Wiki)

The disadvantage of the ski-jump is the penalty it exacts on aircraft size, payload, and fuel load (and thus range); heavily laden aircraft can not launch using a ski-jump because their high loaded weight requires either a longer takeoff roll than is possible on a carrier deck, or assistance from a catapult or JATO rocket, for example the Russian Su-33 is only able to launch from the carrier Kuznetsov with a minimal armament and fuel load.

So this means the Chinese J-15 will find it Difficult to operate at MTOW (of 33 tons) on Liaoning.

If Mig-29K can operate at MTOW on Viky as claimed by the Russians, Then does It means we have already achieved parity with the Chinese carrier?

@Decklander,

 

[pmaitra]

From one of the answer (also quoted from Wiki)



So this means the Chinese J-15 will find it Difficult to operate at MTOW (of 33 tons) on Liaoning.

If Mig-29K can operate at MTOW on Viky as claimed by the Russians, Then does It means we have already achieved parity with the Chinese carrier?

@Decklander,

Sukhoi-33 is a larger cousin of the MiG-29. Both are basically the same design, because both were built on the design developed by TsAGI. So, the flight characteristics aren't very different. Kuznetsov can very well operate MiG-29, but I suppose Vikramaditya's ski-jump is better. Like Oleg Kuleshov said, Kuznetsov is weaker than Vikramaditya. I am not sure whether he said that because Kuznetsov operates the Sukhoi-33 with sub-optimal payload.

Have we achieved parity with the Liaoning? It's a bit early to comment. Let us wait and see what their latests tests reveal about its capabilities.

 

[rvjpheonix]

Sukhoi-33 is a larger cousin of the MiG-29. Both are basically the same design, because both were built on the design developed by TsAGI. So, the flight characteristics aren't very different. Kuznetsov can very well operate MiG-29, but I suppose Vikramaditya's ski-jump is better. Like Oleg Kuleshov said, Kuznetsov is weaker than Vikramaditya. I am not sure whether he said that because Kuznetsov operates the Sukhoi-33 with sub-optimal payload.

Have we achieved parity with the Liaoning? It's a bit early to comment. Let us wait and see what their latests tests reveal about its capabilities.

I disagree. While the basic design is similar there are a lot of differences for the flight characteristics to be same. Firstly, Mig 29k's have a much higher t/w ratio. So the migs will be able to take off closer to MTOW. Still the su 33 is much larger has 50% higher MTOw and a much longer range. The liaoning will be able to carry many more j 15 than we can carry MiG 29's, so I don think we can achieve parity. The liaoning is simply too big. But maybe the MiG 29's have better avionics. I guess the only true advantage we will have is the experience of operating carriers.

 

[sayareakd]

what is that machine?

these are thermal bricks, Chinese bricks last time cased the damage to boiler. So they replace with Russian bricks, she is shown the new bricks.

 

[pmaitra]

I disagree. While the basic design is similar there are a lot of differences for the flight characteristics to be same. Firstly, Mig 29k's have a much higher t/w ratio. So the migs will be able to take off closer to MTOW. Still the su 33 is much larger has 50% higher MTOw and a much longer range. The liaoning will be able to carry many more j 15 than we can carry MiG 29's, so I don think we can achieve parity. The liaoning is simply too big. But maybe the MiG 29's have better avionics. I guess the only true advantage we will have is the experience of operating carriers.

Yes, you are correct about the T:W ratio. That is an artefact of the engine used.

Regarding parity, as of now, Vikramaditya is well tested, and Liaoning is not. So, Vikramaditya has a theoretical edge. Let us wait and see how the Liaoning performs in its practise mission. Only then we can tell for sure.

 

[Decklander]

From one of the answer (also quoted from Wiki)



So this means the Chinese J-15 will find it Difficult to operate at MTOW (of 33 tons) on Liaoning.

If Mig-29K can operate at MTOW on Viky as claimed by the Russians, Then does It means we have already achieved parity with the Chinese carrier?

@Decklander,

Here we are talking of ac carriers who have their fighters as the primary weapons. Mig-29K not only out ranges Su-33 but also outperforms it in terms of payload when operating from the deck so IMHO, Vikky will be able to deliver a more potent punch to a longer distance compared to chinese carrier.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Doesn't quite answer your question, but is an interesting read: Why do Russians and Chinese built aircraft carriers will an upward curved deck? - Yahoo Answers

For a MiG-29 with RD-33 engine, I think the Specific Fuel Consumption afterburner:no-afterburner ratio should be 2.05:0.77. Source: Fighter Aicraft, MiG-29/4

So, Vikky's Mig29K's wuld be consuming almost 3 times as much fuel as compared to a Super Hornet on Nimitz for performing similar role ? Quite unwieldy.

 

[pmaitra]

So, Vikky's Mig29K's wuld be consuming almost 3 times as much fuel as compared to a Super Hornet on Nimitz for performing similar role ? Quite unwieldy.

A little less than 3 times, during the takeoff time, as compared to another MiG-29 taking off from a flat and long airstrip. That ratio I gave is not correct if a MiG-29 is compared with a Super Hornet.

 

[Decklander]

A little less than 3 times, during the takeoff time, as compared to another MiG-29 taking off from a flat and long airstrip. That ratio I gave is not correct if a MiG-29 is compared with a Super Hornet.

The SFC of Mig-29K engines is lower compared to that of F-18s engines so it is wrong to say that Mig-29Ks burn more fuel.

 

[Patriot]

Yes, you are correct about the T:W ratio. That is an artefact of the engine used.

Regarding parity, as of now, Vikramaditya is well tested, and Liaoning is not. So, Vikramaditya has a theoretical edge. Let us wait and see how the Liaoning performs in its practise mission. Only then we can tell for sure.

To add , high sorti rate is of very important factor for an AC to be really effective in the heat of war. If Vikramditya can outrun Chini AC in high sorti rate aspect then we can surely have an edge. Let us see what level of sorti rate IN is going to achieve vis a vis Chinese AC.

At the end of the day experience in using the AC effectively might have an edge over the big size AC.

 

[pmaitra]

The SFC of Mig-29K engines is lower compared to that of F-18s engines so it is wrong to say that Mig-29Ks burn more fuel.

Right. I think @TrueSpirit1 misunderstood me. My comparison was between SFC-of-MiG-29-with-afterburner and SFC-of-MiG-29-without-afterburner.

 

[nirranj]

What is the normal sortie rate for a STOBAR carrier. for example, the Kuznetsov?

What will be the sortie rate for Viky in normal and combat scenarios (Any Ideas considering its deck plan)

Is there any plan with Navy to buy some more VTOL Aircraft like the Harriers?

How many VTOL Aircraft can simultaneously land on a Aircraft carrier?

Can two or more Helicopters simultaneously be launched from a Carrier?
@pmaitra, @Decklander, @arnabmit, @Kunal Biswas

 

[nirranj]

Why doesn't India sink the Virat (post retirement) or Ex vikrant as target during exercises? Have we ever drowned a ship as test target?

The Americans do such things many times.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Why doesn't India sink the Virat (post retirement) or Ex vikrant as target during exercises? Have we ever drowned a ship as test target?

The Americans do such things many times.

The Navy should analyze whether INS Viraat be sold for scrap rather than wasting it for target practice.

On whether we have ever drowned a ship as test target there is a youtube video mentioned below.

Brahmos Supersonic Cruise missile test video
LINK: youtube.com/watch?v=zl48bwYBDfA

 

[Decklander]

What is the normal sortie rate for a STOBAR carrier. for example, the Kuznetsov?

What will be the sortie rate for Viky in normal and combat scenarios (Any Ideas considering its deck plan)

Is there any plan with Navy to buy some more VTOL Aircraft like the Harriers?

How many VTOL Aircraft can simultaneously land on a Aircraft carrier?

Can two or more Helicopters simultaneously be launched from a Carrier?
@pmaitra, @Decklander, @arnabmit, @Kunal Biswas

You can have multiple helicopters taking off and landing simultaneously but ac land and take off one by one.
we do not know the sortie rate of Vikky.
We have sunk quite a few ships in target practice.

 

[nirranj]

You can have multiple helicopters taking off and landing simultaneously but ac land and take off one by one.
we do not know the sortie rate of Vikky.
We have sunk quite a few ships in target practice.

Ok, I was thinking whether it will be possible with VTOL Air Craft. Like One from the fornt and another in the aft. May be the Jet emission from the two aircrafts will be too hard to have people of deck to brace.

Thank You Sir!

 

[Decklander]

Ok, I was thinking whether it will be possible with VTOL Air Craft. Like One from the fornt and another in the aft. May be the Jet emission from the two aircrafts will be too hard to have people of deck to brace.

Thank You Sir!

The VTOL ac make an approach like a normal ac for landing. They do land in sequence one behind another like we do on shore but not together.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

@Decklander
can viki or any carrier can operate more fighters than it's usual capacity in war time.

for example wiki can operate 24 mig 29k, but can it support say 10 or more fighters like a juggling ?