Indian Special Forces

Kumaoni

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There is no way 30 or something SG could have taken over Kabul airport with hundreds of taliban backed up by thousands outside.
You’re right, we would need to have deployed minimum a company and need the element of surprise too, but if we fired first shots at them the hijackers would’ve slaughtered all the civilians on the plane. It’s an impossible task for any one without air support too
 

Kumaoni

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Airborne troops are supposed to insert behind enemy lines take an objective and hold it till relieved by the main force. 71 eastern sector had classic air mobile and air borne operations.
These are battalion+ sized manouvers. What will 200 soldiers each across multiple battalions achieve?
So not only we don’t have any SF, we have also killed our airborne capabilities by using non commando (basically any battalion other than 1,9,10 and 21) battalions in COIN ops as super infantry for the last 30 years. Wow, just wow. This is disappointing to say the least, can any para battalion do a repeat of tangali airdrop now?
 

Kumaoni

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So In the last 20 years (Starting from 2000) the IA has managed ti do the following:
1. Rapidly expand its SF cadre, diluting the very meaning of SF.
2. Use Said SF for super infantry missions, and peacekeeping missions, which can and should be done by regulars and ghataks
3. Completely fail to modernize jn gear, modernizing a mere 5 years since 2000 (on the contrary to Gucci gang COD members I don’t think we are stuck in the 80s I think we are stuck in the early-mid 2000s). Now we have paras going into ops with no helmets as they are likely sick of fiber glass helmets
4. Not a single change in tactical doctrine, I’d honestly argue the tactical doctrine is far worse than it what it was based on the fact that this is the first time in Indian military history where an SF unit has been ambushed and given zero bullets to the enemy
5. Continue to expand 6 month old para battalions into SF.
6. Use SF for LIGHT INFANTRY Ops in 2020s.
7. Induct women commandos and look like jobless militiamen in all excersies.

Sabas india Sabas. Jai Hoooooooooooooo
 

abingdonboy

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Indian “special forces” is the exact same as it was in 1999. They haven’t equipped or upgraded. They’ve lost quality in officers too. It’s a joke.

The post 1971/IPKF/Op Cactus Indian military actually had some teeth, for the time they were pretty much on par with contemporary forces (leaning more to Soviet standards but also using the bleeding edge Western tech in places) and also had high tempo capabilities

come the 90s and this fell off HARD and they’ve just remained still.

Kargil took the wind out of their sails and exposed a lot of their shortcomings and the mentality has never recovered

obviously not a coincidence that COIN started to occupy more and more of their bandwidth from the late 1980s and that has systematically hollowed them out.
 

abingdonboy

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So not only we don’t have any SF, we have also killed our airborne capabilities by using non commando (basically any battalion other than 1,9,10 and 21) battalions in COIN ops as super infantry for the last 30 years. Wow, just wow. This is disappointing to say the least, can any para battalion do a repeat of tangali airdrop now?
I’ve been saying this for years

nominally prior to the recent SF conversion India had ~1 airborne infantry brigade strength (airborne btns) strength in the para regiment. Even the 50th (Independent) brigade that is the IA’s primary airborne rapid mobilisation unit was only partly constituted of airborne infantry (still taking strength from then SF battalions).

compare this to the 82nd of the US army that is at least a division strong and would be the comparable unit to the 50th of the IA.

with the conversion of airborne btns into ‘SF’ india neither has an even nominal airborne infantry nor SF.
 

Kumaoni

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I’ve been saying this for years

nominally prior to the recent SF conversion India had ~1 airborne infantry brigade strength (airborne btns) strength in the para regiment. Even the 50th (Independent) brigade that is the IA’s primary airborne rapid mobilisation unit was only partly constituted of airborne infantry (still taking strength from then SF battalions).

compare this to the 82nd of the US army that is at least a division strong and would be the comparable unit to the 50th of the IA.

with the conversion of airborne btns into ‘SF’ india neither has an even nominal airborne infantry nor SF.
The 50th para brigade was one of Indias best tactical brigades, according to Gen Katoch. To get rid of it was a complete and utter blunder. This is why I say the quality of officers has come down

The post 1971/IPKF/Op Cactus Indian military actually had some teeth, for the time they were pretty much on par with contemporary forces (leaning more to Soviet standards but also using the bleeding edge Western tech in places) and also had high tempo capabilities

come the 90s and this fell off HARD and they’ve just remained still.

Kargil took the wind out of their sails and exposed a lot of their shortcomings and the mentality has never recovered

obviously not a coincidence that COIN started to occupy more and more of their bandwidth from the late 1980s and that has systematically hollowed them out.
You put the decline in the 90s I put in the 2000s. Back in the early 90s, we made COIN school and RR to deal with coin. General BC joshi, the last of the great generals, himself didn’t want special forces and regular infantry to do COIN ops (or play a limited role in it). Hence, he wanted to create the Rashtriya Rifles which was solely dedicated to COIN. He even put Assam Rifles in charge of the insurgency. Matter of face in 91 and 92 the Assam Rifles is who had led the insurgency, one Assam rifles battalion having a record of 200 eliminations in two years. However, his successors seemed to have not gotten the memo and the army was getting more and more involved and by 1996, it was the r army which was solely involved in dishing out casualties. Hence, troops equipped themselves to do COIN ops (heavier gear was shunned upon).

Only thing the Kargil conflict exposed IMO was the lack of preparation that COIN can do for limited conventional conflicts.Overall though, it showed that the Indian army can adjust tactically after failing in the beginning (after failed assaults on Tololing, tiger hill, and 5140 in may-early June, Indian forces began using multidirectional assaults, coupled with the required artillery fire and displayed fine levels of tactical skills, and starting took points one after the other). I could post about several such operations. Bottom line is Kargil showed a highlight of things. A better example than Kargil would be Op prakaram where many men died from doing basic conventional warfare duties like land mines as they had been exposed to COIN for so long.
 

Kumaoni

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So lets wargame .. Who would you put for this op and why?
NSG and 21 Para.

21 Para has shown that it can operate in the jungles quite well, however, I’m doubtful of their urban warfare fighting capabalities aswell has hostage rescue. They are effective at raiding and killing scores of militants, but not urban warfare. So I’d use them to clear a path for the NSG. Then the NSG can do its thing and rescue the hostage.
 

kaboom

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At 2030 hours, L. Nk Goswami’s squad detected the terrorists as they
arrived in the area. The intelligence had proved to be very good. There were
4 of them, as the input had said. The squads, positioned in buddy pairs
through the forest trail, had set down Claymore mines. Unlike landmines,
Claymore mines are detonated on remote command and designed to have
their explosive effect pointed in a certain direction. But the terrorists arrived
from an entirely unexpected direction, giving L. Nk Goswami and the other
troops barely a few minutes to readjust and reconfigure.

Paras use Claymore to lay ambushes
 

rkhanna

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apart from the higher ups i think sanctions were also one of the reasons we messed up

If something like sanctions can stop the evolution of SOF forces then again, another indicator that we dont understand what SOF means. Look at the Russians or the Chinese or hell even Hamas and Hezbolla for that matter.
 

Kumaoni

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We are officially a failed nation. Zero concept of OPSEC. This fucking cunt literally is the reason we lost 4 brave men including an officer. She is a war criminal. What is the punishment? ZERO! Fuckng showing NSG during Mumbai attacks too and revealing hostage names and giving terrorists handlers key info to pass on. We are a nation of bloody jokers.
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