Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[johnj]

Ok so why are they not ordering 40 more mk1a which is already flight testing. And will start delivery soon . It will only cost 3 billion USD. Add another production line.

Because this MRFA / rafale again isn't coming anytime soon either if they award it next year by magic first jet won't be delivered by 2026. Then as you said 11 per year delivery means we will be buying rafale till 2037!!! If you make in India it will take even more time and it will cost way more what 36 from France cost ! ( Add make in India and inflation of 10 years ) .

So Even if mk2 comes after 2030 it will come parallel to rafale from 2030-2037. Why not increase numbers for it then . From 6 sq to 10 squadron. It is planned at 24 per year increase order and make it 30 per year have enough time from now to get supply chain in order.

Buy two more squadrons of rafale for a total of 72 and be done with it.

But they won't do it.

wait, may be more mk1a order in future. 72 rafale + jv engine.
Make in India , SP model, Buy foreign made india, full tot etc of goi were the main issue related to 100+ jets.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Ok so why are they not ordering 40 more mk1a which is already flight testing. And will start delivery soon . It will only cost 3 billion USD. Add another production line.

Because this MRFA / rafale again isn't coming anytime soon either if they award it next year by magic first jet won't be delivered by 2026. Then as you said 11 per year delivery means we will be buying rafale till 2037!!! If you make in India it will take even more time and it will cost way more what 36 from France cost ! ( Add make in India and inflation of 10 years ) .

Given the miser attitude of GoI towards IAF, we might actually see more orders of Mk1A to offset the MRFA deficiency.

Also, I understand Rafale won't be coming anytime soon, but if we, let's say even place the order in 2023, we will start seeing deliveries by 2025, and by 2030 we will have 50+ Rafales, which is, you know, better than zero.

Buy two more squadrons of rafale for a total of 72 and be done with it.

This is actually the most possible & realistic scenario which might actually happen, and I will be happy with it. But it is definitely not the best case.

They had to replace 200+ mig21 with lca. So mk1a number can be increased without touching anything in medium category.

We never had budget for 126 rafale . Perhaps for 126 Mirage. If they wanted 126 jets in one go they should have ordered f16 or gripen to be honest.

With rafale they should've kept the numbers limited to 80 then probably we could have had a deal in one go.

Anyway water under the bridge.

Problem is that IAF isn't looking at batches procurement of rafale as suggested by even previous CDS rawat. They are still adamant for 114 MRFA in one go and hence whole re tender.
Meanwhile squadron strength is dropping.
And nothing else is really moving.

I am not sure about replacing LCA with Mig-21. Same issue with both of them, short-legged and limited role capability. Sane airforces fill their lion's shares with medium-category jets, with light and heavy jets filling the extra capability gaps.

LCA Mk2 should be our ideal medium-weight jet to buy 500+ numbers, but the problem is, well, it's pretty late.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Any idea what is the MKI's range with drop tanks.
MKI is suppose to have 3,000 km range on internal fuel.

Su-30MKI internal fuel capacity alone is quite big, easily around 9500 kilogram of fuel with all 4 main internal fuel tanks...with that it's gotten maximum range of 3000 kilometres at high altitude and perhaps doesn't need much drop tanks etc external stuff, also mid-air refueling is more convenient than some drop tanks

Su-30MKI is quite big sized fighter jet i mean length and height wise it's almost same to WW2 era B-17 flying fortress, even payload is much above than B-17 and with multiple bomb racks it can wreck much more havok if not similar to that...so yeah

 

[IndianHawk]

Given the miser attitude of GoI towards IAF, we might actually see more orders of Mk1A to offset the MRFA deficiency.

Also, I understand Rafale won't be coming anytime soon, but if we, let's say even place the order in 2023, we will start seeing deliveries by 2025, and by 2030 we will have 50+ Rafales, which is, you know, better than zero.



This is actually the most possible & realistic scenario which might actually happen, and I will be happy with it. But it is definitely not the best case.



I am not sure about replacing LCA with Mig-21. Same issue with both of them, short-legged and limited role capability. Sane airforces fill their lion's shares with medium-category jets, with light and heavy jets filling the extra capability gaps.

LCA Mk2 should be our ideal medium-weight jet to buy 500+ numbers, but the problem is, well, it's pretty late.

Agree with most points but 3 yrs from order to first delivery is minimum in aircraft industry.

Then again at which stage the tender is stuck??

 

[IndianHawk]

Replacing mig 21 with tejas 1 to 1 is just theory. The IAF procurement plan circa MMRCA has been pretty clear on what they require.
The gripen and f 16 did not even pass till the L1 stage .
The IAFs way of adjusting to the constraint of the budget is to buy 2nd hand mig 29s and a few more su 30s.
And doing jugaard like buying phased out mirage 2000s for spare parts (fuck that was embarrassing).
What they require has been spelt out .. giving them less is setting them up for failure. The issue is of budget.. The IAF would love to have the mk2 ready to induct today, the need for MRFA would be a different discussion then.

No one is denying the need for MRFA. But looking at budget constraints iaf should have gone for 36 more and later when budget improved they could've gone for another 36 as a last batch of AMCA was delayed. ( Which is most probable given they haven't even sanctioned mk2 even now god know when will AMCA be funded properly).

Anyway it is what it is . And it's a mess.

 

[karn]

No one is denying the need for MRFA. But looking at budget constraints iaf should have gone for 36 more and later when budget improved they could've gone for another 36 as a last batch of AMCA was delayed. ( Which is most probable given they haven't even sanctioned mk2 even now god know when will AMCA be funded properly).

Anyway it is what it is . And it's a mess.

God doesn't know ..

Spoiler

only they know

 

[IndianHawk]

God doesn't know ..

Spoiler

only they know

They have boosted Navy's capital acquisition budget this year by about 43% .

IAF has capital budget of 7 billion USD . A similar boost will see it @ 10 billion USD. Which can solve all problems for now.

Then we can spend 4-5 billion USD on fighter jets procurement annually. While rest goes for bases , SAMs , tankers , awacs and helicopters.

If they are serious about mrfa . We shall see a similar rise in IAF capital budget.

 

[MirageBlue]

IN news, but posting here since I couldn't find the Indian Naval Avation thread.

MiG-29K's mission computer (MC) is being replaced with HAL built MC. It is currently undergoing testing. I had tweeted on this almost a year ago, having read it in a HAL report. Once done, it'll lead to integration of Astra BVRAAM, NG-ARM Rudra and other indigenous weapons on the MiG-29K

New mission computer for IN MiG-29K under trial

The Indian Navy is test-flying a new mission computer for its Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K/KUB carrier-borne fighter aircraft.

The mission computer has been developed by the state-owned defence company, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The new system is intended to give the navy the flexibility to integrate domestically developed and western-origin, air-launched weapons with the Soviet-era MiG-29K, HAL told Janes .

An industry source familiar with the project told Janes that the programme was launched in January 2021 after Russia declined to upgrade the mission computer or provide the source code to HAL.

The former Chairman and Managing Director of HAL, R Madhavan, said in a statement that the MiG-29K/KUB is limited to carrying Russian-origin weapons on air-to-air and air-to-surface missions.

“The aircraft cannot be operated with non-Russian-origin weapons without extensive modifications,” Madhavan said. “Integration of indigenous weapons or western-origin weapons with the MiG-29 is challenging because we do not have any design data or documentation on the architecture of the system.”

HAL told Janes that the Indian Navy assesses that the MiG-29K's inability to mount domestic weaponry is a “serious limitation”.

Janes has learnt that the flight computer has been in trials with the navy since June 2022. “The trials are currently ongoing. The system is being tested along various parameters,” HAL said.

“We estimate that the trials may take between six to eight months to be concluded,” an industry source added.

 

[ezsasa]

beyond LCA(MK1, MK1A, MK2) and AMCA(MK1, MK2),
as and when IN complete their TEBDF, will it be available for IAF as well (minus foldable wings and reinforced landing gear) ?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

beyond LCA(MK1, MK1A, MK2) and AMCA(MK1, MK2),
as and when IN complete their TEBDF, will it be available for IAF as well (minus foldable wings and reinforced landing gear) ?

View attachment 169974

Yes its called orca but Indian airforce dosent seem interested in orca

 

[Dark Sorrow]

as and when IN complete their TEBDF, will it be available for IAF as well (minus foldable wings and reinforced landing gear) ?

IAF isn't interested in ORCA, AF equivalent of TEBDF.
IAF will fulfill its need of indigenous 4.5th generation fighter from Tejas Mk. 2.
Currently ORCA doesn't fall in IAF procurement plan due to acquisition of Tejas Mk. 2.

 

[Blademaster]

beyond LCA(MK1, MK1A, MK2) and AMCA(MK1, MK2),
as and when IN complete their TEBDF, will it be available for IAF as well (minus foldable wings and reinforced landing gear) ?

View attachment 169974

The IAF version called the ORCA should be a suitable replacement for the Rafales from that point on.

Tejas Mk II, ORCA, and AMCA in the pipeline would address all concerns of IAF with respect to aerial defense and security climate.

Su30 ==> AMCA
Rafales ==> ORCA
Single engine fighters, Jaguars, Mig-29s, M2000s ==> Tejas Mk II
Mig-21s ==> Tejas Mk IA.

 

[skunk works]

 

[Johny_Baba]

beyond LCA(MK1, MK1A, MK2) and AMCA(MK1, MK2),
as and when IN complete their TEBDF, will it be available for IAF as well (minus foldable wings and reinforced landing gear) ?

View attachment 169974

yes and it's called Omni-Role Combat Aircraft = ORCA

but before getting excited over it let me kopy-paste what an esteemed member from the forum itself was informed about ORCA when he himself asked about it to a test pilot of LCA project himself during some temporary meetup at Lucknow airport
"I was having conversation with one of test pilots involved in LCA program . He simply called TEDBF as pipe dream . Eventually Navy will ask for F-18 in 2026/2027" - in February, 2020

so if TEDBF doesn't happen then forget about ORCA

some additional stuff from that chatter
- "He said even follow on order of 36 Rafale looks tough now . He said Rafale is very expensive for IAF and IN"
- "N LCA at it's current avatar can easily carry 4 derby and 2 R73"

 

[omaebakabaka]

Chinese were forces to use canards because they couldn't get adequate power for their jet. Besides j20 is not stealth engine wise as it has massive IR signature.

I think it may be because they copied the results of Mig 1.44 and merged it few other design elements they got from else where.....

 

[omaebakabaka]

beyond LCA(MK1, MK1A, MK2) and AMCA(MK1, MK2),
as and when IN complete their TEBDF, will it be available for IAF as well (minus foldable wings and reinforced landing gear) ?

View attachment 169974

Its a beauty without those ugly canards aesthetically speaking....mix of rafale/Tejas and f22/su57 on the front area?

 

[DumbPilot]

These are the types of pilots we have.. My chest just swole 5.214 bajillion kilometers in pride, lol


Gp Cpt MJ Augustine Vinod mentions putting the MiG-21 repeatedly at the 6 of a Eurofighter..

At 46:20. Talks about doing DACT against Eurofighters.

 

[pankaj nema]

 

[bhramos]

 

[bhramos]