Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[skunk works]

Does that mean India has plans for 6th gen plane in future?

I remember the br*ts were marketing the BAE TEMPEST here. Was any classified briefing given?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

We heard about MCA,AMCA plans since 90s early 2000. And yet AMCA are still in plans(though in much advanced planning stage compared to before) - way radically different what was envisaged. Think of this planning as good to have milestone in future of the roadmap. Let them define what 6th gen would mean from indian context

I think the 90s and nowdays is quite different seeing tejas progress and private players coming to scene I have hope or you can just say im optimistic guy

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

I remember the br*ts were marketing the BAE TEMPEST here. Was any classified briefing given?

No idea about that but I really don't think we will go with tempest

 

[johnj]

Does that mean India has plans for 6th gen plane in future?

last batches of Su-30MKIs ??

 

[mist_consecutive]

In all honesty, one on one dogfights are meaningless apart from good training.
A Su30MKI can outmaneuvre about everything in the air, short of an F22, but he'll lose all his airspeed and energy, and someone else will smack him with a missile.

Big misconception. This notion has been going on since the invention of the first BVR missile (Aim-7 Sparrow) during the Vietnam war.

BVR has evolved significantly, and in the future, most kills will likely take place in BVR as well, however, all the wars/skirmishes have proven that WVR engagement kills far outnumber BVR kills for the most part.

Even in 2022, in the ongoing Russo-Ukraine war, both sides get into WVR fights resulting in big furballs.

 

[skunk works]

 

[binayak95]

Big misconception. This notion has been going on since the invention of the first BVR missile (Aim-7 Sparrow) during the Vietnam war.

BVR has evolved significantly, and in the future, most kills will likely take place in BVR as well, however, all the wars/skirmishes have proven that WVR engagement kills far outnumber BVR kills for the most part.

Even in 2022, in the ongoing Russo-Ukraine war, both sides get into WVR fights resulting in big furballs.

My point was not about BVR WVR but energy conservation and airspeed limitations when you engage in a prolonged LFE.

No matter how good of an airframe you have, as you engage kinetically, you will maneuver to defend against incoming missiles. Your altitude, airspeed, and energy state will drop.

A hostile force that is willing to achieve attrition will grind you down eventually.
To counter that you need your own attrition tolerant resources, be they like the F15EX missile truck (using AMRAAMs to keep the enemy maneuvering while your allies close in) or something like an Unmanned Wingman, that can do the hard task for you, while you close in for a kill.

WVR and BVR ki toh baat ki bhi nahi - but the above rule - that all fights end up in the weeds given enough time, is very true.

 

[DumbPilot]

My point was not about BVR WVR but energy conservation and airspeed limitations when you engage in a prolonged LFE.

No matter how good of an airframe you have, as you engage kinetically, you will maneuver to defend against incoming missiles. Your altitude, airspeed, and energy state will drop.

A hostile force that is willing to achieve attrition will grind you down eventually.
To counter that you need your own attrition tolerant resources, be they like the F15EX missile truck (using AMRAAMs to keep the enemy maneuvering while your allies close in) or something like an Unmanned Wingman, that can do the hard task for you, while you close in for a kill.

WVR and BVR ki toh baat ki bhi nahi - but the above rule - that all fights end up in the weeds given enough time, is very true.

I mean, if your BVR doctrine and timelines are good and you respect things like minimum abort range and commit depth with good deconfliction from supporting assets(other fighters, or some BVR setup), then I think getting close to a WVR should be almost impossible. Like they say, something has to go seriously wrong for both the parties to engage in a WVR fight, and it could be anything - ammunition, bad intel, bad doctrine/tactics, etc.

 

[Bhaubai]

 

[ezsasa]

20th Major General Samir Sinha Memorial Lecture


"There can never be a soft war without hard power... Friendships are secondary to national interests... We can't depend on other nations for arms. We need to support indigenous weapons, products, companies, and systems."-CAS

Western Border: No War No Peace Situation likely to continue. Despite the lack of funds newer capabilities will keep developing.
Northern Border: Significant addition of assets, capabilities, infrastructure, and growing assertiveness. The pace of infra buildup HAS, Helipad, Strips, and logistical connectivity is unbelievable- CAS
Threat Manifestation is multi-dimensional and unpredictable. 2 or multi-front war is a possibility and the escalation matrix needs to be controlled by IAF.

The nature of warfare is changing.
Hybrid War
Threat Spectrum & Counters
Capability Voids in IAF:
More Airports/Helipad/HAS in Northern Area
More Aircrafts Required
More ISR, AWACS, SAGW System for High Altitude
Secure Op Comm, Integrated Ti-Service Comm N/W taking shape, Aakash N/W will plug into IACCS along with Trigun of Indian Navy

Thread by @EkNashwar on Thread Reader App

@EkNashwar: 20th Major General Samir Sinha Memorial Lecture #Highlights "There can never be a soft war without hard power... Friendships are secondary to national interests... We can't depend on other nations for ar...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[ezsasa]

Traditional Mil Op: John A. Warden's Model
Hybrid Warfare
Multi-Domain Operations
Evolution of Contemporary Constituents of John Warden's Model.
Fielded Military
Population
Infrastructure
Organic Essentials
Leadership
Application of Air Power
Procurement and Upgradation- Fighters
114 MRFA is still WIP and necessary for maintaining the numbers. Buy Global Make in India.
Su-30 upgrade in a phased manner.

Procurement and Upgradation- Transports, ISTAR, FRA, AEW&C

 

[ezsasa]

Procurement and Upgradation- Rotary
LCH 10 will be inducted in 1st Sqn by next month
Mi-17 under upgrade
LUH case in the advanced stage
IMRH QRs are being finalized
Procurement and Upgradation- RPA
UCAV progressing well
IAF leading requirement of 127 indigenous MALE UAVs for Tri Services
IN leading Tri-services case for HALE
Swarm Drone and Anti-drone systems led by startups
Procurement and Upgradation- Missile Systems
Procurement and Upgradation- Weapons in the pipeline
Hammer, Mistral, Spike, and Spice at advanced stages of negotiation for local production apart from available indigenous options
Procurement and Upgradation- Radars
12 HPRs (30+ yrs old)due for an upgrade
Arudhra (MPR) will be inducted
P-18 (oldest) Radar deployed in Eastern Ladakh for stealth aircraft detection. To be replaced by VHF Radar
Mountain Radars to augment
Ashlesha (LLLWR) to fill gaps.

Procurement and Upgradation- Critical Information Infrastructure
AFNET is being upgraded to AFNET2.0
AFCEL is being upgraded to 5G
Upgradation of Infrastructure
Capability Enhancement- Disruptive Technology
Capability Enhancement- Automation(Ops)
No Paper involved at CAS office for day-to-day activity
Complete digital planning and dissemination
All in-house solutions
Aniveshan: AI-driven analysis of EW/ELINT data
Capability Enhancement- Automation(Maintenance)
All in-house developed solutions

Capability Enhancement- Automation(Administration)
Almost Paperless
Capability Enhancement- Automation(Office)
Instant Messaging over AFCEL is available
IAF Cloud
IAF Drive for Storage
Capability Enhancement- IACCS
Provides a complete picture of Indian Airspace
The backbone of the AD network
Real-time tracking of Aircraft, 18k to 20k aircraft tagged daily, all uncooperatively, multi-sensor (civil & mil) tracking
AI helps in tracking and weapon allocation

 

[ezsasa]

Capability Enhancement- Simulators
Capability Enhancement- Space and Near Space
Most Fighters now have SDR, ground stations, and all other assets being equipped.
Multidomain- Info Warfare
Multidomain- Cyber
IAF Cyber Group formed
Capability Enhancement- Realistic Training
Integrated Training Area over MP for dedicated EW Training including Indian Army's EW assets and Indian Navy's Mig-29s up to 90 to 100 Aircrafts working together
Training under complete communication denial
Check the video in the end
Capability Enhancement- Human Resource
WASP- Warfare and Strategy Program
Intensive Reading Program- Scholar Warriors
Key Focus Areas
Way Forward
Conclusion

Q&A:
Bharat Karnad: Long Range Manned Targeting Bomber Question?
CAS: Tuploves are the 60s designed and need escorting and no self-defense. We have better kinetic and non-kinetic means to handle long-range targets. Contactless warfare is preferred. Also, we have limited budgets

CAS Answer to Q&A:
Theater Commands: IAF will support theater command or integrated command. But the structure should be future-ready. Decision-making cycles should be reduced. OODA loop should be shorter. Joint planning is more important, doctrine of service not to be diluted.

Air Defence Command: 1. Resources? 2. Way of IAF planning offensive operations. Omnirole aircraft perform the offensive role and also do combat air patrol as a defensive asset, we can't segregate them into one category of operation.

Agniveers: 4 yrs not enough for specialization, moreover these candidates are often graduates. IAF we redesign the existing courses to make the most of this opportunity.

Desirable vs Possible: The gap is large, budgetary concerns, additional financial budgetary support sought
IAF has a long-term plan and adjustments are to be made based on the rate of induction.

2 Front War & Pak as a nuisance: We need to relook at how we look at them. IAF as an offensive force should stop focussing too much on Pak. China itself is a 2 front.

Space & Quantum Tech: IAF keeps its ears to the ground and has active programs in emerging technologies. DRDO is working on Hypersonic, but a true hypersonic weapon is yet to be fully operational anywhere. IAF also exploring self-reliance in anti-hypersonic, space, antispace tech
Joint Theater Command Doctrine is basically a pre-doctrine Statement: Panel says IAF doctrine on jointness is a doctrine of jointless commands No digital links for interoperability and intention or plan to do joint panning. No one is in command of joint orgs.(loosely summed up).

CAS: S400 threat in China; IAF is aware of A2AD capability. They are continuously working on toppling A2AD wall of China.

SRBM & LRBM: A lot of scopes, but budgetary constraints limit the IAF.
In charge of Theaterization: Services engaged together, finished tabletop exercise
The experiences and feedback will be shared. The analysis will be collated to start the work on Theaterization.
The stake of Services in National Security Measures and Participants: CAS refrains from commenting in public

 

[karn]

Bharat Karnad: Long Range Manned Targeting Bomber Question?
CAS: Tuploves are the 60s designed and need escorting and no self-defense. We have better kinetic and non-kinetic means to handle long-range targets. Contactless warfare is preferred. Also, we have limited budgets

Expect some RR in news articles in the coming days .

 

[IndianHawk]

So much word salad by CAS. But regarding there main asset fighter aircrafts they remain clueless as ever. Still only one solution foreign MRFA and nothing else in pipeline for a long time .
Funds for mk2 coming this late.

No movement on tankers. Su30mki radar upgrade no sign.

Only upgraded networks and Sam installations are saving grace.

They don't want to look more at porkies yet soon enough they'll have their squadron strength down to the number of porkies air force. While chinese catching up to USAF.

 

[jai jaganath]

So much word salad by CAS. But regarding there main asset fighter aircrafts they remain clueless as ever. Still only one solution foreign MRFA and nothing else in pipeline for a long time .
Funds for mk2 coming this late.

No movement on tankers. Su30mki radar upgrade no sign.

Only upgraded networks and Sam installations are saving grace.

They don't want to look more at porkies yet soon enough they'll have their squadron strength down to the number of porkies air force. While chinese catching up to USAF.

Everything u said is right
But regarding Su-30MKI the upgrades are going on and in phased manner it will take time but it has started dway back
And regarding tankers mou for mrtt has been signed so we can see transfer of Air India planes soon thus undergoing refit

 

[mist_consecutive]

Bharat Karnad: Long Range Manned Targeting Bomber Question?
CAS: Tuploves are the 60s designed and need escorting and no self-defense. We have better kinetic and non-kinetic means to handle long-range targets. Contactless warfare is preferred. Also, we have limited budgets

I am glad our Air Chief has more than 2-functioning brain cells, which is good news because many people in the defense echelons advocating for Tu-160s do not.

So much word salad by CAS. But regarding there main asset fighter aircrafts they remain clueless as ever. Still only one solution foreign MRFA and nothing else in pipeline for a long time .
Funds for mk2 coming this late.

No movement on tankers. Su30mki radar upgrade no sign.

Only upgraded networks and Sam installations are saving grace.

They don't want to look more at porkies yet soon enough they'll have their squadron strength down to the number of porkies air force. While chinese catching up to USAF.

Su-30MKI Radar upgrade is only possible when DRDO comes up with scaled-up Uttam Mk2, which I guess should be around 2026 ? So expect upgrades to start by 2030 only.

 

[jai jaganath]

I am glad our Air Chief has more than 2-functioning brain cells, which is good news because many people in the defense echelons advocating for Tu-160s do not.



Su-30MKI Radar upgrade is only possible when DRDO comes up with scaled-up Uttam Mk2, which I guess should be around 2026 ? So expect upgrades to start by 2030 only.

For Su-30MKI ew upgrades have been started like rwr and other esm made by drdo being installed in mkis
Navachakshu is progressing and other upgrades will take place in phased manner and completely indigenously
Radar cockpit will be last phase I feel along with hud if hal and iaf intends to
But Su-30MKI upgradation is going on
I feel by 2030-32 many major upgrades of mkis would have been completed

 

[mist_consecutive]

20th Major General Samir Sinha Memorial Lecture


"There can never be a soft war without hard power... Friendships are secondary to national interests... We can't depend on other nations for arms. We need to support indigenous weapons, products, companies, and systems."-CAS

Western Border: No War No Peace Situation likely to continue. Despite the lack of funds newer capabilities will keep developing.
Northern Border: Significant addition of assets, capabilities, infrastructure, and growing assertiveness. The pace of infra buildup HAS, Helipad, Strips, and logistical connectivity is unbelievable- CAS
Threat Manifestation is multi-dimensional and unpredictable. 2 or multi-front war is a possibility and the escalation matrix needs to be controlled by IAF.

The nature of warfare is changing.
Hybrid War
Threat Spectrum & Counters
Capability Voids in IAF:
More Airports/Helipad/HAS in Northern Area
More Aircrafts Required
More ISR, AWACS, SAGW System for High Altitude
Secure Op Comm, Integrated Ti-Service Comm N/W taking shape, Aakash N/W will plug into IACCS along with Trigun of Indian Navy

Thread by @EkNashwar on Thread Reader App

@EkNashwar: 20th Major General Samir Sinha Memorial Lecture #Highlights "There can never be a soft war without hard power... Friendships are secondary to national interests... We can't depend on other nations for ar...…

threadreaderapp.com

Anyone got the original video ?

 

[ezsasa]

Anyone got the original video ?

they have made the video private.