Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Can anyone tell me if the IAF even operates ground launched BrahMos? As far as I know, they don't. Only Navy and Army have ground launched BrahMos. Right? And Tigersharks of Air Force (who can launch BrahMos-A) are in South India. So how come there was a launch of BrahMos into Pakistan and IAF Officers end up getting fired for it? I am so confused right now.

IAF does have a few squadrons of land based Brahmos batteries.
Don't know the exact number of missiles, but its somewhere between 200-400

 

[Knowitall]

Laughable at best.

Egypt being the 44th economy can afford 56 Rafales, Indonesia being the 15th economy can afford 42 Rafales, and UAE being the 24th economy can afford 80 Rafales, yet we being the 5th largest economy can only afford 36 Rafales.



Yes, shit happens, accept it. RuAF is losing half of its inventory to Ukrainian MANPADS. The USA had to abandon its equipment in hurry and face a humiliating retreat from Afghanistan.



Keep screaming foreign maal and UN airforce. Pakistan will keep throwing imported AMRAAMs at us, from imported F-16s, delivering imported Griffin LGBs on our position, but fortunately for us, all of these are useless since they are "imported", so we can rest easy.

On the battlefield, hard, cold capabilities matter, not the country of origin.

I'm surprised to see such analysis from you.

How about you look at the total squadrons Egypt Indonesia and UAE have. How about you look at the transport fleets they maintain when compared to us and the number of airfields bases air defence systems they have.

We have almost triple if not quadruple the stats in most cases.

Pakistan isn't importing shit. F-16 are super old now coupled with their Mirage which are only used during crises.

Pakistani military leadership unlike IAF realised the budget constraints and opted for jf-17 and decided to continue using it with constant upgrades at different block versions.

It's not a great aircraft but it does the basic job. If anything pakistan is a good example of matching your expectations and realities.

Tejas wouldn't have seen the light of the day if not for parikar HAL ADA are not perfect organizations but with the budget constraints and bureaucracy at hand they have managed to create a Excellent aircraft that was snubbed by IAF at various levels.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Yes, shit happens, accept it. RuAF is losing half of its inventory to Ukrainian MANPADS. The USA had to abandon its equipment in hurry and face a humiliating retreat from Afghanistan.

Half its inventory lost to Ukrainian manpads? Where did you pull that off? Ghost of kyiv? Perhaps you meant Afghan Soviet war....Knowitall has a point, that mission after balakot should have been more thoroughly planned by IAF and anticipated and better prepared to respond....it was poorly executed. I do believe we shot down the f-16 though....if indeed vishwaguru or gujju gang in south block chickened out and tied the hands of IAF then there is not much that IAF could have done.

 

[IndianHawk]

for past year or two, hardly a month goes by without some news of equipment malfunction within pak military, could be planted news too.

Could be . But we are well aware that ruski maal needs lots of spare reserve to function and porkies being new with it are not prepared to spend and build a vast reserve of spares.

 

[AnantS]

Plus points of being American ally

plus points of being Anglo white and American ally.

 

[IndianHawk]

Laughable at best.

Egypt being the 44th economy can afford 56 Rafales, Indonesia being the 15th economy can afford 42 Rafales, and UAE being the 24th economy can afford 80 Rafales, yet we being the 5th largest economy can only afford 36 Rafales.



Yes, shit happens, accept it. RuAF is losing half of its inventory to Ukrainian MANPADS. The USA had to abandon its equipment in hurry and face a humiliating retreat from Afghanistan.



Keep screaming foreign maal and UN airforce. Pakistan will keep throwing imported AMRAAMs at us, from imported F-16s, delivering imported Griffin LGBs on our position, but fortunately for us, all of these are useless since they are "imported", so we can rest easy.

On the battlefield, hard, cold capabilities matter, not the country of origin.

Egyptian rafale are bankrolled by Saudi Arabia. UAE buys weapons as a means of P5 protection.

Although the point stands we can very well afford 100+ rafale but if we make them in India costs will atleast double. Hence better to buy them off the shelf in batches that way you get new versions at reasonable costs.

 

[binayak95]

We should have gone for the A330s as refuelers.

No, the KC46 Pegasus was cheaper and easier to operate.

 

[binayak95]

Both Philippines Air Force and Colombian Air Force order KAI T-50 with Elta EL/M-2052 AESA radar.
They haven't ordered ELL-8222SB jammer.
Currently their seems no evidence that ELL-8222SB jammer is integrated with KAI T-50.
The combination KAI T-50 and ELL-8222SB jammer also seems to be a mismatch, kind of overkill but I could be wrong.
Cost will also be prohibitive for Philippines Air Force and Colombian Air Force to acquire such high tech jammer.

And it is SOP for IAF to not announce any such purchases. But the article is not about Indian purchase for sure; those things NEVER make it to the headlines.

 

[binayak95]

The discussion here just took a dive into a pisspond. lol.

Heck, the stuff the IAF pulls off everyday is insane - in terms of the skill required by both air crew and groundstaff in keeping ancient flying machines operating in conditions most others would have given up on.

Siachen Pioneers anyone?

And boohoo PAF got the drop on us post balakot. Well what the fuck if they did? tactical initiative is ALWAYS with the aggressor. They get to choose the time and location for an ingress. They did.
Tactical Surprise WAS on their side,
and what the hell did they achieve? 6 AMRAAMs fired at 2 Su30MKIs for jack all. One Bison lost, in exchange for the F16.

Zero bombs on targets.

In what way was this mission a success? they failed their objectives, didnt manage to get past the interdicting birds, and managed to lose one bird too.

and IAF failed?
The only failure that day was the blue on blue shoot.

 

[mist_consecutive]

I'm surprised to see such analysis from you.

How about you look at the total squadrons Egypt Indonesia and UAE have. How about you look at the transport fleets they maintain when compared to us and the number of airfields bases air defence systems they have.

We have almost triple if not quadruple the stats in most cases.

Pakistan isn't importing shit. F-16 are super old now coupled with their Mirage which are only used during crises.

Pakistani military leadership unlike IAF realised the budget constraints and opted for jf-17 and decided to continue using it with constant upgrades at different block versions.

It's not a great aircraft but it does the basic job. If anything pakistan is a good example of matching your expectations and realities.

Tejas wouldn't have seen the light of the day if not for parikar HAL ADA are not perfect organizations but with the budget constraints and bureaucracy at hand they have managed to create a Excellent aircraft that was snubbed by IAF at various levels.

I am surprised to see armed forces bashing becoming a fad here. Anything and everything uncomfortable is being blamed on "incompetence", rather than looking at the holistic picture. Surely, it is easy to blame the armed forces because they are an honorable organization that won't get into petty politics on whose mistake it is.

Govt. won't buy jets for Airforce and ask them to fight a war with China and Pakistan in Mig-21s, then blame IAF for failure and high crash rate.
Govt. will only provide substandard equipment, lacking even proper equipment to even SF, let alone common solider, then blame IA why they are facing casualties in encounters with terrorists or not able to tackle China on LAC.

 

[mist_consecutive]

How about you look at the total squadrons Egypt Indonesia and UAE have. How about you look at the transport fleets they maintain when compared to us and the number of airfields bases air defence systems they have.

Oh, I did not want to go down that rabbit hole. But here -

Egypt defence budget - 4 Bn $
Indonesia defence budget - 9.3 Bn $
UAE defence budget - ~20-22 Bn $

Indian defence budget - 76.6 Bn $

Problem is not money, but mentality. We want F-22s at the cost of JF-17s. Frugalism does not work when you have two nuclear neighbours actively trying to sabotage you.

At the end of the day, everybody will agree, if we signed deal for 126 MMRCA in 2014, outcome of Balakot strike & aftermath would have been different. Yeah, it would have been expensive, but it was a necessary expense.

Pakistan isn't importing shit. F-16 are super old now coupled with their Mirage which are only used during crises.

Pakistani military leadership unlike IAF realised the budget constraints and opted for jf-17 and decided to continue using it with constant upgrades at different block versions.

It's not a great aircraft but it does the basic job. If anything pakistan is a good example of matching your expectations and realities.

In the last 4 years, Pakistan has imported -

• JF-17s (50+)
• J-10 (6+)
• Bayraktar TB2
• Wing Loong II
• CH-4 Rainbow
• Type 54 Frigates
• HQ-9
• HQ-16

And many other high-cost equipments. Yeah, you can argue they are donations, they are on loan, but they are getting them, and they will matter in a conflict. Pakistan is 2nd in line for bankruptcy after Sri Lanka. Do you hear them they don't have money to buy more J-10s ?

 

[mist_consecutive]

 

[DumbPilot]

Another thing I would like to add is that Mig-21 is a very unforgiving aircraft. It is notoriously hard to control, and it takes decades to master it. But if you learn its ways, it will reward you with the kinetics of a rocket and maneuverability of flankers.

..

In no shape or form will you get the maneuverability of a flanker on a MiG-21..

 

[mokoman]

Air Force at Rajasthan border gets new anti-drone guns, jammers

Pakistan frequently sends drones to the Indian side for spying purposes as well as to smuggle drugs, weapons, and ammunition. The anti-drone weapon has now arrived at Nal Air Force Station, where it will be used to shoot down any Pakistani drones that approach the Indian border. In addition...

www.timesnownews.com

doesnt look like this is for use against large military drones like TB-2 , Ch-4. flying in other side of border.

this is for use against small drones that approach the base or cross the border to spy / drop weapons.

 

[mist_consecutive]

..

In no shape or form will you get the maneuverability of a flanker on a MiG-21..

You will be surprised

Air Force at Rajasthan border gets new anti-drone guns, jammers

Pakistan frequently sends drones to the Indian side for spying purposes as well as to smuggle drugs, weapons, and ammunition. The anti-drone weapon has now arrived at Nal Air Force Station, where it will be used to shoot down any Pakistani drones that approach the Indian border. In addition...

www.timesnownews.com

doesnt look like this is for use against large military drones like TB-2 , Ch-4. flying in other side of border.

this is for use against small drones that approach the base or cross the border to spy / drop weapons.

WLVN adding some extra butter these days

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Egypt being the 44th economy can afford 56 Rafales, Indonesia being the 15th economy can afford 42 Rafales, and UAE being the 24th economy can afford 80 Rafales, yet we being the 5th largest economy can only afford 36 Rafales.

Our organization wise spending pattern

Army spending must be reduced by more than half and the funds must be transferred to IAF, IN and DRDO. Steps are being taken in this direction but it will take time to achieve results.

Our categorized spending pattern.

If you see capital expenditure is only 28% across entire MOD.

This leaves very small budget for IAF for capital expenditure.

Their is also a technical capabilities. Currently PAF is inducting jets with AESA radar and BVRAAM with AESA seeker. In either case effectiveness of Rafale has come into question hence the entire re-tendering.
People on internet and DFI may yell Rafale can take on J-20 and J-16D but this couldn't be further from the truth.

We also have other important priorities than Rafales.

 

[karn]

I really dunno the reality ..
IAF pilots that have flown the mig 21 hold it in a mythical status .. I've heard from them that mig 21 has a 1m2 RCS head on .. so very hard to lock on with BVRAMs etc etc . And yes the same pilots will prefer this over the tejas anyday .. (disclaimer they were involved with the tejas only in the early days ..pre 2010.)

 

[binayak95]

I really dunno the reality ..
IAF pilots that have flown the mig 21 hold it in a mythical status .. I've heard from them that mig 21 has a 1m2 RCS head on .. so very hard to lock on with BVRAMs etc etc . And yes the same pilots will prefer this over the tejas anyday .. (disclaimer they were involved with the tejas only in the early days ..pre 2010.)

Tejas is a damn good bird, but when you have trained your whole life on a platform, when your mentors and the men you looked up to, legends like Air Cmde Bundal Tyagi, you cant help but be loyal to a bird that served so well.

But its time has come and gone.

 

[karn]

Our organization wise spending pattern

View attachment 168915

Army spending must be reduced by more than half and the funds must be transferred to IAF, IN and DRDO. Steps are being taken in this direction but it will take time to achieve results.

Our categorized spending pattern.

View attachment 168916

If you see capital expenditure is only 28% across entire MOD.

This leaves very small budget for IAF for capital expenditure.

Their is also a technical capabilities. Currently PAF is inducting jets with AESA radar and BVRAAM with AESA seeker. In either case effectiveness of Rafale has come into question hence the entire re-tendering.
People on internet and DFI may yell Rafale can take on J-20 and J-16D but this couldn't be further from the truth.

We also have other important priorities than Rafales.

Is there a similar pie chart as per capital expenditure as opposed to total expenditure.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Our organization wise spending pattern

View attachment 168915

Army spending must be reduced by more than half and the funds must be transferred to IAF, IN and DRDO. Steps are being taken in this direction but it will take time to achieve results.

Our categorized spending pattern.

View attachment 168916

If you see capital expenditure is only 28% across entire MOD.

This leaves very small budget for IAF for capital expenditure.



We also have other important priorities than Rafales.

If I do all the calculations, 23 % 76.6 Bn $ is 17.618 Bn $, capital expenditure of that is, 24 % of 17.618 Bn $ still comes 5 Bn $ anually to buy equipment.
Also, not to say govt. can sanction extra money the year when we are going to sign the deal. Again, mentality matters.

Their is also a technical capabilities. Currently PAF is inducting jets with AESA radar and BVRAAM with AESA seeker. In either case effectiveness of Rafale has come into question hence the entire re-tendering.
People on internet and DFI may yell Rafale can take on J-20 and J-16D but this couldn't be further from the truth.

Elta-2052 on Jaguar & Tejas is a AESA radar, aswell as RBE-2 on Rafale. Meteor BVR on Rafale again, sports an AESA seeker.

And yes, Rafale can take on J-20 and J-16D comfortably.