Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[binayak95]

Important question is that why haven't we still developed tactics for Tejas.
LSP were delivered from 25 April 2007 to March 2013.
Flying Bullets Squadron was raised between May 2020 and September 2021.
IAF did have plenty of time to develop tactics.

Yeah, but not enough birds in squadron service for TACDE guys to get a handle on them.

At the squadron level, proficiency has been built up; but not by TACDE. TACDE tactics are what is institutionalised into service.

 

[NutCracker]

Important question is that why haven't we still developed tactics for Tejas.

LSP were delivered from 25 April 2007 to March 2013.

Doesn't matter , because only airframe isn't sufficient , but we need to see when the relevant missiles were inducted with LCA.

First FOC came in 2020.

Flying Bullets Squadron was raised between May 2020 and September 2021.
IAF did have plenty of time to develop tactics

Daggers were inducted first. And few weeks back heard news about them being transferred to border.
But still waiting.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Doesn't matter , because only airframe isn't sufficient , but we need to see when the relevant missiles were inducted with LCA.

First FOC came in 2020.




Daggers were inducted first. And few weeks back heard news about them being transferred to border.
But still waiting.

Yeah, but not enough birds in squadron service for TACDE guys to get a handle on them.

At the squadron level, proficiency has been built up; but not by TACDE. TACDE tactics are what is institutionalised into service.

Tactics needed developed atleast on paper and simulated on computer models.
One the jet has become operational these tactics could have been validated.

Combat tactics are integral part of fighter jet exports. When someone buys jets they inclusively buys your tactics as well. Without pre-developed tactics chances of exporting jets is not good.
e.g. If we buy F-18 SH for INS Vikrant, the package will include tactics from USN.

 

[johnj]

Tactics needed developed atleast on paper and simulated on computer models.

By who ?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

By who ?

By IAF, IAF had a glimpses of Tejas from 2007.

 

[NutCracker]

Enroute to Australia for exercise Pitch Black 22.

We were this 🤌 close to the perfection.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Any idea what is the MKI's range with drop tanks.
MKI is suppose to have 3,000 km range on internal fuel.

 

[mist_consecutive]

I believe it was in CAG report.
IAF is having a lot serviceability issues with both IL-76 and IL-78.
For this reason we convert six Boeing-767 civilian aircraft into mid-air refuellers for the IAF and use Airbus A319 or Airbus A321 for our AEW&CS program.

Got it

IAF staring at midair refuelling crisis, says CAG report

A decade ago, the IAF identified 10 airfields for mid-air refuelling where infrastructure was to be created, including extended runways, to fully exploit the platform

www.hindustantimes.com

Important question is that why haven't we still developed tactics for Tejas.
LSP were delivered from 25 April 2007 to March 2013.
Flying Bullets Squadron was raised between May 2020 and September 2021.
IAF did have plenty of time to develop tactics.

Flying bullets squadron earlier lacked a gun, BVR missiles, radar, EW package, and even aerial refueling capacity. Tejas' capability was then equivalent to a light trainer role at best. How do you develop tactics on that ?

Even different BVR missiles have different flight/kinematics & kill zones which are taken into account when developing tactics, same for EW + radar.

In truth, we might not field Tejas at the frontline with confidence until Mk1A comes, and we have understood the machine and developed its tactics.

Any idea what is the MKI's range with drop tanks.

I have never seen any flanker with drop tank ever, I don't think drop tanks even exists for flankers.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Flying bullets squadron earlier lacked a gun, BVR missiles, radar, EW package, and even aerial refueling capacity. Tejas' capability was then equivalent to a light trainer role at best. How do you develop tactics on that ?

Even different BVR missiles have different flight/kinematics & kill zones which are taken into account when developing tactics, same for EW + radar.

In truth, we might not field Tejas at the frontline with confidence until Mk1A comes, and we have understood the machine and developed its tactics.

What about WVR capabilities? We have tested Python and R-73 missile.
If this is the case the probability for Tejas in to be selected in Malaysian AF will reduce significantly.

I have never seen any flanker with drop tank ever, I don't think drop tanks even exists for flankers.

I also couldn't find any information on drop tanks.

 

[IndianHawk]

Any idea what is the MKI's range with drop tanks.
MKI is suppose to have 3,000 km range on internal fuel.

Drop tanks will come with super Sukhoi update where wet stations will be added.

 

[mist_consecutive]

What about WVR capabilities? We have tested Python and R-73 missile.
If this is the case the probability for Tejas in to be selected in Malaysian AF will reduce significantly.

WVR capabilities have been tested, and off-boresight fire cued to Dash-4 HMD has been validated. But if you look at other contenders (Mig-35, Yak-130, FA-50), only FA-50 is a valid contender, and Tejas beats FA-50 in almost everything.

 

[binayak95]

Any idea what is the MKI's range with drop tanks.
MKI is suppose to have 3,000 km range on internal fuel.

IAF SU30MKIs don't have wet stations.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

WVR capabilities have been tested, and off-boresight fire cued to Dash-4 HMD has been validated. But if you look at other contenders (Mig-35, Yak-130, FA-50), only FA-50 is a valid contender, and Tejas beats FA-50 in almost everything.

Looks like we have the best capabilities in all contenders.
I didn't know Mig-35, Yak-130 were also in the race. I thought Malaysians wanted to reduce their dependence on Russians.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Important question is that why haven't we still developed tactics for Tejas.
LSP were delivered from 25 April 2007 to March 2013.
Flying Bullets Squadron was raised between May 2020 and September 2021.
IAF did have plenty of time to develop tactics.

Where is this plenty of time IAF had? The foc squadron was set up barely an year ago. With several additions including bvr capability, IFR etc. Then for every kind missile, pgm, bombs etc, the qualifications must start from carriage trials, pylon tests, release trials , then weapon specific behaviours etc. To qualify a new weapon on a pylon, all these has to be done from scratch everytime. For each type of weapon and for each pylon. Then the different combinations have to be flown and validated. Then combat tactics needs to be developed, practised and training for other squadron line pilots, all these must be documented. Vibrations etc if arises has to be rectified. ASTRA captive trials are still going on. Hammer integration is still going on.
All these takes lot of time. Till now, we were buying jets. This means those Air Forces did all these long tiresome work and trained us and we just adopts it to suit our tactics. 3-4 years from the time the FOC squadron got raised is reasonable. Even if the Tejas moves to frontline this year end, it will be R-73, I -Derby ER whose integration is almost done will be the weapons

 

[MirageBlue]

I have a genuine question.
Why don't their Mirage 3, 5 or F7 crash like our Mig-21s?

Have you seen what their Mirages' attrition rate is? It's as bad, if not worse than our MiG-21s.

 

[MirageBlue]

Kuch bhi.. you don't send aircrafts that have barely any tactics developed for them to an EXERCISE.
ITS NOT AN AIRSHOW .

Really? So why was the IAF going to send Tejas fighters to the UK for Ex Cobra Warrior that was later postponed thanks to the Ukraine conflict?

The first 2 squadrons were tasked with fully exploiting the Tejas and developing tactics/manuals. Grp Cpt Dhankar, then CO of the No.45 Squadron quite explicitly said so during his interview at LIMA 2019 that his primary task was to fully exploit the IOC Tejas Mk1s and not prepare for aerobatics at Air Shows, even though he could do that.

What do you think the 2 squadrons have been doing all these years with the Tejas fighters they have?

 

[Super falcon]

TU 160 For India is very very aggressive procurement it will bring both India and china at a brink of a nuclear thrash hold

 

[Tactical Doge]

TU 160 For India is very very aggressive procurement it will bring both India and china at a brink of a nuclear thrash hold

I have a crash on you

 

[Love Charger]

TU 160 For India is very very aggressive procurement it will bring both India and china at a brink of a nuclear thrash hold

Or bhai, how are you

 

[Mikesingh]

En route EX Pitch Black, Australia.

Mid-air twin refueling of SUs by the French Air Force! Merci Beaucoup!!

All pics courtesy IAF