Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[IndianHawk]

Pakistan air force is in dire straits.
Mirage 3 and 5 are barely flying. They are 50+ years old. F7pg are as old as Indian mig 21s and far more obsolete due to lack of proper upgrades.

Jf17 has failed to live up to expectations hence desperate order for j10 which not much improvement over jf17.

F16 fleet too is very old barring only 18 relatively new block 52. And this f16 fleet too is mostly grounde due to lack of spares because of bad financial situation.

They have no where to go but china whose equipment is falling apart while brand new.

Pretty bad situation overall. They can't keep up. And if this pace continue one day Indian Navy might be capable of wiping out their airforce with rafale m and tedbf. Lmao.

 

[binayak95]

Pakistan air force is in dire straits.
Mirage 3 and 5 are barely flying. They are 50+ years old. F7pg are as old as Indian mig 21s and far more obsolete due to lack of proper upgrades.

Jf17 has failed to live up to expectations hence desperate order for j10 which not much improvement over jf17.

F16 fleet too is very old barring only 18 relatively new block 52. And this f16 fleet too is mostly grounde due to lack of spares because of bad financial situation.

They have no where to go but china whose equipment is falling apart while brand new.

Pretty bad situation overall. They can't keep up. And if this pace continue one day Indian Navy might be capable of wiping out their airforce with rafale m and tedbf. Lmao.

Add to that embargo from US for spares and France for the Mirage fleet, and you have a comfortable IAF with 30 squadrons.

 

[Blademaster]

Pakistan air force is in dire straits.
Mirage 3 and 5 are barely flying. They are 50+ years old. F7pg are as old as Indian mig 21s and far more obsolete due to lack of proper upgrades.

Jf17 has failed to live up to expectations hence desperate order for j10 which not much improvement over jf17.

F16 fleet too is very old barring only 18 relatively new block 52. And this f16 fleet too is mostly grounde due to lack of spares because of bad financial situation.

They have no where to go but china whose equipment is falling apart while brand new.

Pretty bad situation overall. They can't keep up. And if this pace continue one day Indian Navy might be capable of wiping out their airforce with rafale m and tedbf. Lmao.

In that case, IAF should force PAF to scramble its F-16s and fly (flog) them more often to use up all of its spares and lower its readiness state and force PAF to cannibalize its F-16 fleet so when war comes, PAF is in shit up the creek without a paddle.

 

[binayak95]

In that case, IAF should force PAF to scramble its F-16s and fly (flog) them more often to use up all of its spares and lower its readiness state and force PAF to cannibalize its F-16 fleet so when war comes, PAF is in shit up the creek without a paddle.

We did that in the build up to and post Balakot days.

 

[ezsasa]

in the context of those U.S exercises in 2000's where USAF and IAF used to have a human relay from control room to talk to each other.

what is the status of IAF fighters ability to communicate with western airforces now a days, can they communicate with each other directly?
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Rare and unique shots of #IndianAirForce Su-30MKI fighters refuelling mid air with tankers of French Air and Space Force enroute Exercise #BlackPitch22 to Australia

 

[The Shrike]

Pertinent question would be: why we need air refueling assist from the French in our oun backyard - IOR.

 

[ezsasa]

Pertinent question would be: why we need air refueling assist from the French in our oun backyard - IOR.

interoperability is the buzzword these days

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Mirage 3 and 5 are barely flying. They are 50+ years old. F7pg are as old as Indian mig 21s and far more obsolete due to lack of proper upgrades.

I have a genuine question.
Why don't their Mirage 3, 5 or F7 crash like our Mig-21s?

 

[mist_consecutive]

I have a genuine question.
Why don't their Mirage 3, 5 or F7 crash like our Mig-21s?

Short answer: - They don't fly them.

Long answer: - IAF has (IIRC) the highest flying hours required for any air force worldwide. While most NATO countries have switched to simulators as part of their training, IAF still does regular sorties. For the older aircraft like Mig-21, it means higher stress on the airframe, reducing its life, plus the probability that a mid-air snag arises, increases.

PAF simply puts fewer hours on their pilot, plus they have a lot of jets grounded which only flies when tensions are high. For example, aftermath Feb 2019, tensions kept both sides flying more sorties and maintaining high serviceability, resulting in a sharp rise in the numbers of PAF crashes (mainly JF-17s and F-7s).
Compared to them, IAF faced no such rise in air accidents.

 

[IndianHawk]

I have a genuine question.
Why don't their Mirage 3, 5 or F7 crash like our Mig-21s?

Because they barely fly them . There operating hours are much much lower than ours. Their f7 fleet is much smaller compared to our mig21 fleet. And mirages while very old are much much relaxed jets compared to mig21 as they are basically strike jets not air fighters!!.
But if they will fly them more there will be more crashes.
Their mainstay jf17 has already crashed 3-4 times despite being much modern compared to older jets probably because it flies the most in their fleet.

Besides one of the big reason of mig21 crash was our deficiency in advanced jet trainer before pilots jumping on supersonic mig21.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Another thing I would like to add is that Mig-21 is a very unforgiving aircraft. It is notoriously hard to control, and it takes decades to master it. But if you learn its ways, it will reward you with the kinetics of a rocket and maneuverability of flankers.

Young pilots often fall prey to its high AoA and unusual roll characteristics. Fun fact, you can actually pull a Pugachev's cobra with Mig-21, but due to the lack of FBW like flankers, controlling it is almost impossible.

Yet, against all odds, against all the bad names, IAF pilots just love Mig-21 (not kidding). They consider it the ultimate thrill machine, kind of Royal Enfield Bullet of the air force. They consider newer jets like Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000s as "boring" because they are so easy to fly.

 

[karn]

Another thing I would like to add is that Mig-21 is a very unforgiving aircraft. It is notoriously hard to control, and it takes decades to master it. But if you learn its ways, it will reward you with the kinetics of a rocket and maneuverability of flankers.

Young pilots often fall prey to its high AoA and unusual roll characteristics. Fun fact, you can actually pull a Pugachev's cobra with Mig-21, but due to the lack of FBW like flankers, controlling it is almost impossible.

Yet, against all odds, against all the bad names, IAF pilots just love Mig-21 (not kidding). They consider it the ultimate thrill machine, kind of Royal Enfield Bullet of the air force. They consider newer jets like Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000s as "boring" because they are so easy to fly.

Yeah ..I know a retired officer... bailed out of a mig 21 .. still loves it..
Isn't there another factor as to our crash rates . Like the soviet airforce does not have nearly our requirements for stick time and they write their SOPs based on this. If the IAF ran with these SOPs while running these aircraft at their own tempo there would be extra crashes right?

 

[binayak95]

interoperability is the buzzword these days

and the IL78MKIs are not exactly fully serviceable.

 

[binayak95]

Another thing I would like to add is that Mig-21 is a very unforgiving aircraft. It is notoriously hard to control, and it takes decades to master it. But if you learn its ways, it will reward you with the kinetics of a rocket and maneuverability of flankers.

Young pilots often fall prey to its high AoA and unusual roll characteristics. Fun fact, you can actually pull a Pugachev's cobra with Mig-21, but due to the lack of FBW like flankers, controlling it is almost impossible.

Yet, against all odds, against all the bad names, IAF pilots just love Mig-21 (not kidding). They consider it the ultimate thrill machine, kind of Royal Enfield Bullet of the air force. They consider newer jets like Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000s as "boring" because they are so easy to fly.

The Pugachev Cobra was INVENTED on the MiG21, by the Syrians during the Israel wars. They passed it on to the Russians and the Egyptians and it was the Egyptians who passed it on to us.

 

[mist_consecutive]

and the IL78MKIs are not exactly fully serviceable.

I am hearing this for the first time. Any source ?

The Pugachev Cobra was INVENTED on the MiG21, by the Syrians during the Israel wars. They passed it on to the Russians and the Egyptians and it was the Egyptians who passed it on to us.

Why for all my life I heard Pugachev's Cobra was invented by Victor Pugachev (Russian test pilot) on Su-27 ?

 

[omaebakabaka]

Yet, against all odds, against all the bad names, IAF pilots just love Mig-21 (not kidding). They consider it the ultimate thrill machine, kind of Royal Enfield Bullet of the air force. They consider newer jets like Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000s as "boring" because they are so easy to fly.

Bullet? More like rx100 of the time...bullet is cool but certainly no crotch rocket, fbw's are slush boxes that made it easy for women to drive. Mig 21 is like someone that can drive a stick and knows the rpm zones to get the most thrill

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I am hearing this for the first time. Any source ?

I believe it was in CAG report.
IAF is having a lot serviceability issues with both IL-76 and IL-78.
For this reason we convert six Boeing-767 civilian aircraft into mid-air refuellers for the IAF and use Airbus A319 or Airbus A321 for our AEW&CS program.

 

[NutCracker]

HAL wants to sell Tejas to Malaysia, Egypt and Australia.
IAF making sure they don't witness Tejas's capabilities.

Kuch bhi.. you don't send aircrafts that have barely any tactics developed for them to an EXERCISE.
ITS NOT AN AIRSHOW .

 

[binayak95]

I am hearing this for the first time. Any source ?



Why for all my life I heard Pugachev's Cobra was invented by Victor Pugachev (Russian test pilot) on Su-27 ?

"Mohammed’s initial solution was based on Soviet manuals and consisted of rapid descending turns followed by a sudden activation of the afterburner and a climb. However, in the course of one of related test-flights, in early 1967, Mohammad inadvertently pitched the nose of his MiG too hard, so that the forward movement of his aircraft nearly stopped. When he engaged the afterburner his MiG ended ‘standing on its tail’, with the nose pointing almost vertically into the sky, on the verge of flipping out of control. Mohammad recovered on time to prevent a crash, but it was a close call: in order to prevent this from happening again, he decided to try flying the same manoeuvre after engaging the afterburner, so to enable the engine to spool up on time (the Tumansky R-11 was notorious for its slow reaction to throttle movement).

That was the moment that what later became known as the ‘zero speed manoeuvre’ was born."

The Unknown Story of the Syrian MiG-21 Pilot who Developed the Cobra Manoeuvre: i.e. Pugachev Wasn’t the First to Perform the Cobra - The Aviation Geek Club

The Unknown Story of the MiG-21 Pilot who Developed the Cobra Manoeuvre: i.e. Pugachev wasn’t the first to Perform the Cobra

theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Kuch bhi.. you don't send aircrafts that have barely any tactics developed for them to an EXERCISE.
ITS NOT AN AIRSHOW .

Important question is that why haven't we still developed tactics for Tejas.
LSP were delivered from 25 April 2007 to March 2013.
Flying Bullets Squadron was raised between May 2020 and September 2021.
IAF did have plenty of time to develop tactics.